...Truth has not special time of its own. Its hour is now — always and indeed then most truly when it seems unsuitable to actual circumstances. (Albert Schweitzer).....the truth about these murders has not been uncovered, but we believe the time for the truth is now. Join us, won't you?
Thursday, December 07, 2006
When Leslie Met Larry
She seems so nice. I am sure Mrs. LaBianca thought so, right Savage?
Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
Deb said... Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
Deb said... Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
5:53 PM, December 11, 2006
>> Hello there deb. I think Leslie will do anything that distances herself from Manson. I don't buy for one minute that she never had sex with him.
You can say what you want to Col but the opinion that I have on Leslie Van Houten remains the same.
Leslie's a good woman and a good person and she's come a very long way from the early days when she was just a drifting hippie.
If you can make the argument that Bobby Beausoleil should be released, then how can you deny the same for Leslie?
Nobody here today is the same as we we when we were in our teens. People mature over time and they come of age and they begin to understand their place in life.
The Leslie Van Houten that I met and have come to know is a good person and she's a changed woman. For anyone to suggest that she poses a risk to society is absolutely absurd. You know that as well as I do.
Has justice been served for Leslie's role in what took place back on August of 1969? In my opinion, I feel that Leslie has done her time with grace and dignity and she's proven through her own efforts that she's worthy of being given a second chance and I stand by her in that belief.
Keeping this woman locked up serves no purpose but to fuel the idiotic tabloid papers that feed off of stories like this and to further create the legend that this tragedy has become.
I have seen this interview before and Larry comes across as very charming, doesn't he?
As far as the comments on the headband, please, enough. You're making something out of nothing.
The women in C.I.W are not allowed to wear makeup and the institution does not promote femininity or glamorization among the inmates. In other words, the women there don't have the opportunity to get dolled up.
In this case, they probably allowed Leslie to make herself presentable for the purposes of doing the interview with Larry King.
As i said before, you're making something out of nothing with the headband.
If you can make the argument that Bobby Beausoleil should be released, then how can you deny the same for Leslie?
It all has to do with accepting responsibility. Charlie didn't MAKE anyone do anything. If you blame him, I feel you should stay where you are. Bobby is the only one who doesn't blame anyone.
One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows.This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board. Leslie probably isn't a threat to anyone now but the status of her crime as portrayed by the media will push back her release for years,if ever.
I don't recall Leslie saying that she doesn't accept responsibility. Quite the contrary, she does accept responsibility.
I agree with you when you say that Charlie didn't make anyone do anything. He didn't physically, but mentally he would make you feel as if you had to, hence Leslie feeling the need to have to prove herself.
The cult theory and the use of Scientology come into play here and the emphasis was on people feeling the need to prove themselves if they wanted to remain with the group.
The key difference between Leslie and Bobby, is that Bobby is directly responsible for the death of Gary Hinman. There's no doubt that about. In Leslie's case, i don't believe that she physically caused the death of Rosemary LaBianca. Her death was caused by Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel.
I'm not excusing what Leslie was involved in and i'm not trying to downplay her involvement but facts are facts. Leslie had to be told by Charles Denton Watson to stab Rosemary otherwise she would never have even done that.
This makes Leslie's case a little more palatable than Bobby's in terms of suitability.
Leslie took responsibility for what she did and she's been locked away for almost 37 years.
I've always said that the primary killers were Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel and, for some strange reason, these two always take a beat seat when the names Leslie Van Houten and Susan Atkins are mentioned. I don't understand how that is, but then again those are only two names that the media ever seems to want to talk about so i guess that answers my own question.
The media only reports what sells or what can be exploited for gain. Similar to what Bugliosi and Nelson have done in their day.
The law appears to be trial by media in the state of California. Even Charles Manson once said that he was convicted in the press even before he went to trial.
Silly me, here i am trying to make sense out of something that makes no sense and then figuring that the law is still something that people follow only find to out that the State of California doesn't care what's on the books. They make up the rules as they go.
I've said before there's almost no difference between the State of California and Communist Cuba in terms of how they both like to incarcerate people.
zoomjaw said: >>One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows.This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board.<<
I believe that the "Son of Sam" law would prevent Leslie from making any money along those lines.
Leslie is going to have a hard enough time just trying to get settled in and adjust to a world that's radically different from the one she left behind.
Alot has changed in her life and believe me when i tell you that it won't be easy for her to come back.
I feel that she's earned the privilage to have a chance to come back, but the world is a very different place now and adjusting to day to day life will be a real challenge for her. She's going to need time to adjust to the changes in her daily life outside the institution and she'll be more than occupied with trying to build some kind of a life once again.
C.I.W has been her world. That's where Leslie grew up. It's been her home for most of her life. Don't assume that she's just going to walk on out of there and jump right back into daily life. She's in for a rough ride.
Getting food and housing at the institution is one thing, but surviving on the outside is a whole different animal.
Leslie has alot to focus on. She has her friends and she'll have to focus on rebuilding her life.
helterskelter_aug_1969 said: >>>I'm sure that Leno and Rosemary can rest peacefully knowing that Leslie has grown up and matured.<<<
You're making it sound as if Leslie was solely responsible for their deaths.
This goes back to the point i keep making that people seem to forget that it was Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel who murdered Leno and Rosemary. You can't make the comparison between Leslie and the other two. It's not the same thing.
>>>In her 2005 parole hearing she was blaming music, television, drugs and the war in Vietnam for her role in the murders. You can go read her hearing on Brets site.<<<
Leslie's previous parole hearing took place in August 2004.
>>>She had to be told? Did he teach her to fetch too? <<<
Yes, Leslie did have to be told to stab Rosemary and I believe this is significant because, had she not been told, it's my belief that Leslie would not have stabbed anyone. That's not how she is as a person. Leslie does not have that kind of thing in her.
helterskelter_aug_1969 said: >>>Savage, I thought your great love was Susan. Did you begin your new love with Leslie after James Whitehouse has said he had no idea who you are? <<<
You were told that for a reason. I'm well aware of what's been going on.
There are some people who feel that being silent is the best policy.
I disagree.
I think in this case, Leslie has excelled and has been more than what you'd call a model inmate. She's given back to her community in many ways and she's shown that she's a woman that is deserving of a honest chance at parole.
I don't like the little song and dance routine that board of parole hearings puts on. They're obviously not concerned about obeying the laws that are on the books regarding what determines suitablity for parole.
I know that Curt Rowlett used to post here under the name of Satori and I know why he no longer does that.
I too was challenged but decided not to cowar.
I've told Leslie many times that Freedom is seldom ever given and must usually be fought for.
If i didn't believe in Leslie and feel that she wasn't deserving of a second chance, I wouldn't be as outspoken as i've been on this subject.
How many 1 or 2 year denials will be handed out by a board that's too worried about making the right decision because they might be second guessed because they're handcuffed by political correctness.
People need to speak out and need to voice their opinions because, unlike Barbara Hoyt, I won't sit back and do nothing while someone i know suffers.
Leslie is a good woman and, in my opinion, she's earned the privilage of being granted a parole.
I know that some people take issue to my openness, but if you don't circle the wagons and make a stand, then what's the point?
I don't want to see Leslie finish her days in that place because she doesn't belong there. She's not like Tex and Pat.
Maybe it takes someone like me who's willing to stand up and fight for this girl to make the board of parole hearings understand that it's their responsibility to follow the code of law.
Leslie Van Houten is a an excellent candidiate for parole and the board of parole hearings knows it.
Leslie has been through 3 trials and 16 or so parole hearings. I believe that she's presented herself accordingly.
Whatever it is your looking for in terms of truth would probably have to come from either Charles Manson or Charles Denton Watson or possibly even Bruce Davis.
If there are any people, "In the Know", it would most likely come from one of the male members of the group.
Last time i checked, Rice, Davis and Watson were all hiding behind phony ministries and using Jesus Christ as a human shield.
Much to Leslie's credit, she didn't take that route and you'd think that would be something that would be recognized by the board of parole hearings. It's a sign that Leslie has internally accepted responsibility for what she was a part of. She hasn't hid behind the cross.
Susan was the first of the group to turn to the cross, but she did it for her own personal salvation. She didn't set up a phony ministry like the others.
Leslie has been through 3 trials and 16 or so parole hearings. I believe that she's presented herself accordingly.
Whatever it is your looking for in terms of truth would probably have to come from either Charles Manson or Charles Denton Watson or possibly even Bruce Davis.
If there are any people, "In the Know", it would most likely come from one of the male members of the group.
Last time i checked, Rice, Davis and Watson were all hiding behind phony ministries and using Jesus Christ as a human shield.
Much to Leslie's credit, she didn't take that route and you'd think that would be something that would be recognized by the board of parole hearings. It's a sign that Leslie has internally accepted responsibility for what she was a part of. She hasn't hid behind the cross.
Susan was the first of the group to turn to the cross, but she did it for her own personal salvation. She didn't set up a phony ministry like the others.
Just one more thing for that HelterSkelter_Aug_1969 moron.
Never once on this blog did i ever say that I was in love with Susan Atkins. I'm sure that even Colscott will back me up on that statement.
I've tenaciously defended Susan for both personal reasons and because i genuinly feel that she's a good person who should be given a chance to spend her days with her husband who's stood by her for a very long time. James Whitehouse is a good man and I have more respect for him than you know.
This business with Susan only flared up when the Col took a jab at James when he was poking fun at Donald Laisure on one of his posts, which i took offense to.
Maybe i should have just said nothing and let it go, but I did what i felt I had to do because I respect James and didn't like someone taking a cheap shot at him.
I'm under no obligation to explain myself to anyone.
As for videos, here's one that i'm partial to and it goes out to the woman i love.
>>>You don't even know Dennis, Bruce or Tex so how is it you can you form an intelligent opinion with people you don't even know?<<<
I'll agree with you on the fact that i don't know these 3 men personally, i think there's more than enough reason to question their motives.
Bill Nelson proved Tex Watson and ALMS to be a sham. Tex's wife, Christian, was obviously scamming people for a ministry that was supposed to be 'Non-Profit'. Bill Nelson proved that to be otherwise. So right away, we all know that Tex and his cross are full of shit.
Then we have Dennis Rice, who for some unknown reason decided to market his "Free Indeed" ministry on a Charlie Manson Website run by a man who's the second coming of Bill Nelson. If a man turns to Jesus, why the hell is he using the Charles Manson name to market his words of wisdom. The whole thing stinks and to make matters worse, both Bruce and Catherine are posting articles to Dennis' ministry website on Charliemanson.com There's a whole lotta love there ... but i don't know if it's Charlie's love or Jesus'.
As i mentioned above with Bruce Davis, he too shared the communion bread with Tex and dogs that usually hang out together often share fleas as well. Bruce Davis sending anything to Dennis Rice's website through CharlieManson.Com is a red flag in my book.
I don't have to know these 3 guys to know that something stinks somewhere.
Much to Susan's credit, she hasn't worked the Jesus angle to try to deceive or scam anyone like the trifecta above. That's why i give much more credit to Susan's faith than i do the 3 stooges you named.
>>>Then why are you? In one of the last topics you said you were taking a break from the blog. Another short lived break. <<<
I reserve the right to speak if a certain topic captures my interest but if the children decide to romp about and start acting up, then naturally i'll hold back until the nonsense subsides.
The Col's blog can be interesting but there are times when it's obvious that the fools are just playing around.
I still think that the Col should require people to register as members.
Susan_Sucks said: >>>At least I can talk to others without resorting to name calling. Aren't you beyond the middle school years? I would love to discuss Leslie with you further, but who wants to waste time talking with you, much less put any credence into your post when you lower yourself to such childish acts. You seem to be a very intelligent person. Such antics are beneath you.<<<
I'm just essentially taking the position of stating that Leslie is a good woman and I think she's deserving of a chance to spend whats left of her days with those she loves. I've learned to appreciate life because our time in this world is short and the future is very uncertain.
It's hard when you do something in your life that you can't undo and you live day to day with the consequences of that one moment in time when you lost yourself.
I know what's in Leslie's heart and i know that she's also suffered a great deal. She's a good person and she's helped so many women over the years who needed her guidance. I believe in her and I love her dearly.
That's really all I can say.
As for the name calling, I take no pleasure in having to spar with anyone but sometimes you have to defend yourself. People always seem very quick to attack and this case seems to bring out the worst in everyone.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I think that you'll some of Patricia Krenwinkels statements interesting.
In some of her earlier parole hearings she explained how Manson used to make Pat stand by a tree so he could through knives at her.
It was a way of breaking down her mind to the point where she would trust him totally and as Pat herself had said, he wanted her to be a "Finger on a hand", his hand ... an extension of his will.
This brainwashing served as the motivation for the members of the group to feel as if they had to prove themselves.
The main point that i really think gets overlooked is how the scientology aspect was essentially ignored.
Paul Watkins said that, in the beginning, they were all heading towards life. It was about living free and loving one another.
Then, as Vincent Bugliosi had put it, they became a "Nomadic band of Vagabonds that call themeselves the family".
From there, they became a "Murdering Cult". Death Worshipers as Paul Watkins would later say.
Somewhere in the midst of this transformation, you have the sex, drugs and mind control and you can even add in a little healthy paranoia courtesy of the Beatles White Album.
The minds of these girls ... their thoughts and their identities, were slowly being emptied out and replaced by a new way of thinking.
Their minds were being slowly hijacked and they dressed in costumes and assumed different names while at Spahn Ranch. Fantasy became their reality.
Keep in mind that Manson sent Bruce Davis to London to take part in some kind of Scientology seminar. Mind control was obviously something Manson was interested in.
The apocolyptic theme appeared after the Beatles White Album was released in the United States in December of 1968 and by January 01, 1969 Marina Habe would be dead and the death of the 60's was in motion.
Pat Krenwinkels parole hearings i still think were some of the most informative.
The one thing that stands out with me about Pat is that she has that expressionless look on her face.
It's almost as if her personality and her mind was drained from her and she's just there in a semiconscious state. It's as if the essense of who she was had been extracted from her.
She seems to me as if she's the closest thing to a robotic entity that you can get to and is why Stephen Kay said at one of Pat's hearings that Patricia was Manson's complete reflection.
I feel bad for Patricia because deep down all you can see is a woman who only wanted someone to love her. Her homelife was such that her needs were great and that made her more susceptable to brainwashing and mind control. She would be easier to flip as opposed to a woman who was more self disciplined and in control of herself. She became a Jekyl and Hyde type figure.
In case any of you missed Dr. Michael Savage's lateset sermon, he had a very interesting program where he was analyzing a song from the Kinks called: "Living on a thin line".
Now even Dr. Savage is analyzing lyrics .... Charlie once said that the clues are in the music. You make the connection.
Londonistan .... Farewell to England and the West.
I think Pat has emotion in her - there was parole hearing where she certainly demonstrated that - something along the lines of "The only thing I can do to rectify this is give my own life, and I can't do that" and she became very emotional and cried.
It's difficult to judge by a parole hearing. Do you smile and be friendly? And then people complain, "Look at her smile while she's talking about killing people." Or do you show emotion? And then people complain that you should get ahold of yourself.
Zoomjaw said: >>One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows. This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board.<<
Personally, what i think Leslie should do, as one of the terms of her being granted a parole, is to have her attorney draft up some kind of legal document that states that she'd waive any right to any paid compensation for any interviews done upon her release or that a large percentage of that money be given directly to one of the victim's charity organizations.
The Doris Tate foundation exists, but i'm not sure if there are any charity organizations that are endorsed by the surviving members of the LaBianca family.
I think this would be a smart move on Leslie's part to show the LaBianca family that she's not getting out with the intention of making money for what she was a part of. I think that this might also ease any concerns that the board of parole hearings has about possibly giving Leslie her parole date and then being second guessed for having done so.
I think if freedom is really what Leslie wants, then i see no reason why she wouldn't agree to such a thing. It makes good sense to me.
I believe that the "Son of Sam" law would prevent her from making money but there are always loopholes around the law. As a parolee, I don't believe that Leslie would be allowed to leave the United States so i don't see her going to England and doing any talk shows there.
If the fear is that the board thinks that Leslie is going to get out and profit from the crime, then i believe that Leslie can and should take some kind of action and give the board that guarantee that this won't happen and structure it in such a way that any paid appearances would benefit the charities recommended by the victims families.
The law governing suitability for parole should be followed but i think if Leslie were to give some kind of written guarantee to the board of parole hearings and to the smaldino family then perhaps this would put to rest the fears of Leslie being able to profit from the victims.
I'm not an attorney, but i think it's a reasonable request and it might just be something that would help her get a parole date.
Susan_Sucks said: >>If I recall the story correctly, she held Rosemary down so Tex could stab her.<<<
Leslie held Rosemary down when Pat attempted to stab her.
It wasn't until after the struggle broke out that Leslie ran into the hall to call for Tex. When Tex went into the room Leslie remained out in the hall and I believe she was told to wipe off fingerprints.
By the time Leslie was told to "Do Something", both Pat and Tex had already done what they did to Rosemary. How anyone could survive the assault to those two is why i hold firm to the belief that Rosemary was already dead when Leslie was told to do her part.
It doesn't explain away what she did, but I think it allows me to entertain the belief that Leslie is not a murderer.
Whatever Manson's role in these events truly was, it should not overshadow the brutality of what Charles Denton Watson had done. He's a monster and he should have been executed.
You don't hear Watson being called a Mass Murderer by the media, No, that's a term they reserve for Charlie and that's god damn shame because Tex butcherd those people and his knife was that knife that killed Sharon Tate and her child. The media should focus their anger on Watson because that SOB was at both houses on those nights and he's also responsible for the murder of Marina Habe. Why he's still breathing today and running a ministry is beyond words.
I'd kill him myself if i thought it would set Leslie free.
Salem said: >>Habe? ummmmm I was told bruce was in that and Hughes and the willets and Pugh a few more. HABE???? <<
There was a very interesting segment on the Barbara Hoyt interview in which Bill Nelson discussed why he believed that Tex Watson was responsible for the murder of Marina Habe.
He claims that Tex Watson was in Hawaii at the time that Marina Habe was attending the University of Honolulu. Somehow or other Tex became acquainted with Marina Habe and it was rumored that Marina Habe had actually visited Spahn Ranch.
Bill alleges that Marina Habe came back to California to spend Christmas with her family and visited Spahn Ranch during that time. She knew Tex Watson, who at the time was staying in a house a few miles away from where Marina Habe's body would eventually be discovered by a jogger on New Years Day, January 1, 1969.
Bill, in his interview with Barbara Hoyt, seemed adamant that Tex was the person responsible for Marina's death. I think Bill was right and it was rumored that both Tex Watson and Bruce Davis were alleged to have had some kind of a party at the house he was staying in. Marina was believed to have been there.
Funny enough, Bill goes on to mention that Mama Watson had come out to visit with Tex at the house that he was staying at and actually left because of some of the things that were going on.
If you haven't listened to that interview that Bill did with Barbara, you should take a look at it. At times, it seemed like Bill was giving out more information than he was getting from Barbara.
It was interesting to hear some of Barbara's claims, especially when she descibes how she crawled under the bunk to go to sleep after listening to Shorty Shea screaming in pain after having been stabbed to death, so she claims.
Salem said: >>Habe? ummmmm I was told bruce was in that and Hughes and the willets and Pugh a few more. HABE???? <<
There was a very interesting segment on the Barbara Hoyt interview in which Bill Nelson discussed why he believed that Tex Watson was responsible for the murder of Marina Habe.
He claims that Tex Watson was in Hawaii at the time that Marina Habe was attending the University of Honolulu. Somehow or other Tex became acquainted with Marina Habe and it was rumored that Marina Habe had actually visited Spahn Ranch.
Bill alleges that Marina Habe came back to California to spend Christmas with her family and visited Spahn Ranch during that time. She knew Tex Watson, who at the time was staying in a house a few miles away from where Marina Habe's body would eventually be discovered by a jogger on New Years Day, January 1, 1969.
Bill, in his interview with Barbara Hoyt, seemed adamant that Tex was the person responsible for Marina's death. I think Bill was right and it was rumored that both Tex Watson and Bruce Davis were alleged to have had some kind of a party at the house he was staying in. Marina was believed to have been there.
Funny enough, Bill goes on to mention that Mama Watson had come out to visit with Tex at the house that he was staying at and actually left because of some of the things that were going on.
If you haven't listened to that interview that Bill did with Barbara, you should take a look at it. At times, it seemed like Bill was giving out more information than he was getting from Barbara.
It was interesting to hear some of Barbara's claims, especially when she descibes how she crawled under the bunk to go to sleep after listening to Shorty Shea screaming in pain after having been stabbed to death, so she claims.
The autopsy on Marina indicated that she had literally no smog in her lungs so she was murdered not that long after she arrived back on the west coast.
If i remember correctly, Bill stated that he believed that Marina Habe was murdered in the house that Tex was staying at and the body dumped a few miles from the house on New Years Day.
Bill made it sound like he was convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was Tex Watson that Killed her.
After what you saw take place in the Tate and LaBianca residences, I have no reason to doubt that Tex is responsible for Marina Habe's murder.
If that prick really turned to Jesus like he claims to have, then maybe something in his heart should have told him that maybe it's best to confess to it in order to at least give some kind of closure to that mystery. He's obviously not going anywhere and it would be the right thing to do for a man that now calls himself a christian.
Savage Disciple said... After what you saw take place in the Tate and LaBianca residences, I have no reason to doubt that Tex is responsible for Marina Habe's murder.
This is just another reason why I hope you never sit on a jury. You've convicted several people of crimes without any proof.
Who needs proof when you have Michael Savage to tell you what to think?
Helter...realize that our savage has no original thought in his dang head.
It comes from a talk show on AM radio or something he has read.
52 comments:
The headband gives a little-girl touch.
Was this something that resulted in the Governor's executive order of "No more prisoner interviews"?
I don't think the slave to Savage is gonna answer, Col.
It's been..what? a few days?
I will be happy to answer for him....
You nailed it, Col. My shit is flakey....how could I ever think that LVH would ever be ready for parole.
And yes, Mrs. Labianca did not think that Leslie was very nice at all.
Signed,
Savage channeling through Meaty
Deb B said...
The headband gives a little-girl touch.
Was this something that resulted in the Governor's executive order of "No more prisoner interviews"?
The head band thing was on purpose, no doubt.
Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
Deb said...
Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
could drugs have helped?
Deb said...
Am I delirious or didn't all the girls at one time or another sleep with Charlie? Maybe Leslie and CM didn't sleep together a lot but how would he break down their morals if he hadn't had sex with her?
5:53 PM, December 11, 2006
>> Hello there deb. I think Leslie will do anything that distances herself from Manson. I don't buy for one minute that she never had sex with him.
Cheers!
By the way Col, thanks!
You can say what you want to Col but the opinion that I have on Leslie Van Houten remains the same.
Leslie's a good woman and a good person and she's come a very long way from the early days when she was just a drifting hippie.
If you can make the argument that Bobby Beausoleil should be released, then how can you deny the same for Leslie?
Nobody here today is the same as we we when we were in our teens. People mature over time and they come of age and they begin to understand their place in life.
The Leslie Van Houten that I met and have come to know is a good person and she's a changed woman. For anyone to suggest that she poses a risk to society is absolutely absurd. You know that as well as I do.
Has justice been served for Leslie's role in what took place back on August of 1969? In my opinion, I feel that Leslie has done her time with grace and dignity and she's proven through her own efforts that she's worthy of being given a second chance and I stand by her in that belief.
Keeping this woman locked up serves no purpose but to fuel the idiotic tabloid papers that feed off of stories like this and to further create the legend that this tragedy has become.
I have seen this interview before and Larry comes across as very charming, doesn't he?
As far as the comments on the headband, please, enough. You're making something out of nothing.
The women in C.I.W are not allowed to wear makeup and the institution does not promote femininity or glamorization among the inmates. In other words, the women there don't have the opportunity to get dolled up.
In this case, they probably allowed Leslie to make herself presentable for the purposes of doing the interview with Larry King.
As i said before, you're making something out of nothing with the headband.
If you can make the argument that Bobby Beausoleil should be released, then how can you deny the same for Leslie?
It all has to do with accepting responsibility. Charlie didn't MAKE anyone do anything. If you blame him, I feel you should stay where you are. Bobby is the only one who doesn't blame anyone.
But my opinion is irrelvant to her release.
One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows.This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board.
Leslie probably isn't a threat to anyone now but the status of her crime as portrayed by the media will push back her release for years,if ever.
I don't recall Leslie saying that she doesn't accept responsibility. Quite the contrary, she does accept responsibility.
I agree with you when you say that Charlie didn't make anyone do anything. He didn't physically, but mentally he would make you feel as if you had to, hence Leslie feeling the need to have to prove herself.
The cult theory and the use of Scientology come into play here and the emphasis was on people feeling the need to prove themselves if they wanted to remain with the group.
The key difference between Leslie and Bobby, is that Bobby is directly responsible for the death of Gary Hinman. There's no doubt that about. In Leslie's case, i don't believe that she physically caused the death of Rosemary LaBianca. Her death was caused by Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel.
I'm not excusing what Leslie was involved in and i'm not trying to downplay her involvement but facts are facts. Leslie had to be told by Charles Denton Watson to stab Rosemary otherwise she would never have even done that.
This makes Leslie's case a little more palatable than Bobby's in terms of suitability.
Leslie took responsibility for what she did and she's been locked away for almost 37 years.
I've always said that the primary killers were Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel and, for some strange reason, these two always take a beat seat when the names Leslie Van Houten and Susan Atkins are mentioned. I don't understand how that is, but then again those are only two names that the media ever seems to want to talk about so i guess that answers my own question.
The media only reports what sells or what can be exploited for gain. Similar to what Bugliosi and Nelson have done in their day.
The law appears to be trial by media in the state of California. Even Charles Manson once said that he was convicted in the press even before he went to trial.
Silly me, here i am trying to make sense out of something that makes no sense and then figuring that the law is still something that people follow only find to out that the State of California doesn't care what's on the books. They make up the rules as they go.
I've said before there's almost no difference between the State of California and Communist Cuba in terms of how they both like to incarcerate people.
Welcome to Socialism.
zoomjaw said:
>>One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows.This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board.<<
I believe that the "Son of Sam" law would prevent Leslie from making any money along those lines.
Leslie is going to have a hard enough time just trying to get settled in and adjust to a world that's radically different from the one she left behind.
Alot has changed in her life and believe me when i tell you that it won't be easy for her to come back.
I feel that she's earned the privilage to have a chance to come back, but the world is a very different place now and adjusting to day to day life will be a real challenge for her. She's going to need time to adjust to the changes in her daily life outside the institution and she'll be more than occupied with trying to build some kind of a life once again.
C.I.W has been her world. That's where Leslie grew up. It's been her home for most of her life. Don't assume that she's just going to walk on out of there and jump right back into daily life. She's in for a rough ride.
Getting food and housing at the institution is one thing, but surviving on the outside is a whole different animal.
Leslie has alot to focus on. She has her friends and she'll have to focus on rebuilding her life.
That's her main priority.
Hey Dok!
Hope you are feeling better. It's good to see ya!
Thanks to Colonel as always for putting these old interviews on his blog for us to watch.
Cheers
helterskelter_aug_1969 said:
>>>I'm sure that Leno and Rosemary can rest peacefully knowing that Leslie has grown up and matured.<<<
You're making it sound as if Leslie was solely responsible for their deaths.
This goes back to the point i keep making that people seem to forget that it was Charles Denton Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel who murdered Leno and Rosemary. You can't make the comparison between Leslie and the other two. It's not the same thing.
>>>In her 2005 parole hearing she was blaming music, television, drugs and the war in Vietnam for her role in the murders. You can go read her hearing on Brets site.<<<
Leslie's previous parole hearing took place in August 2004.
>>>She had to be told? Did he teach her to fetch too? <<<
Yes, Leslie did have to be told to stab Rosemary and I believe this is significant because, had she not been told, it's my belief that Leslie would not have stabbed anyone. That's not how she is as a person. Leslie does not have that kind of thing in her.
helterskelter_aug_1969 said:
>>>Savage, I thought your great love was Susan. Did you begin your new love with Leslie after James Whitehouse has said he had no idea who you are? <<<
You were told that for a reason.
I'm well aware of what's been going on.
Have you noticed that i took down my video that I made for Susan.
Why do you think that was?
helterskelter_aug_1969 said:
>>>Just around the time you began deleting every post you made about Susan?<<<
No, in fact i think you'll find that i had deleted just about every post i had put up regardless of topic.
I think the Col can verify that statement :-)
You can think whatever you like but the truth speaks for itself.
Just ask Curt Rowlett. I'm sure he's heard my name mentioned on a few occassions .... just as i've heard about his :-(
From the same source.
There are some people who feel that being silent is the best policy.
I disagree.
I think in this case, Leslie has excelled and has been more than what you'd call a model inmate. She's given back to her community in many ways and she's shown that she's a woman that is deserving of a honest chance at parole.
I don't like the little song and dance routine that board of parole hearings puts on. They're obviously not concerned about obeying the laws that are on the books regarding what determines suitablity for parole.
I know that Curt Rowlett used to post here under the name of Satori and I know why he no longer does that.
I too was challenged but decided not to cowar.
I've told Leslie many times that Freedom is seldom ever given and must usually be fought for.
If i didn't believe in Leslie and feel that she wasn't deserving of a second chance, I wouldn't be as outspoken as i've been on this subject.
How many 1 or 2 year denials will be handed out by a board that's too worried about making the right decision because they might be second guessed because they're handcuffed by political correctness.
People need to speak out and need to voice their opinions because, unlike Barbara Hoyt, I won't sit back and do nothing while someone i know suffers.
Leslie is a good woman and, in my opinion, she's earned the privilage of being granted a parole.
I know that some people take issue to my openness, but if you don't circle the wagons and make a stand, then what's the point?
I don't want to see Leslie finish her days in that place because she doesn't belong there. She's not like Tex and Pat.
Maybe it takes someone like me who's willing to stand up and fight for this girl to make the board of parole hearings understand that it's their responsibility to follow the code of law.
Leslie Van Houten is a an excellent candidiate for parole and the board of parole hearings knows it.
Leslie has been through 3 trials and 16 or so parole hearings. I believe that she's presented herself accordingly.
Whatever it is your looking for in terms of truth would probably have to come from either Charles Manson or Charles Denton Watson or possibly even Bruce Davis.
If there are any people, "In the Know", it would most likely come from one of the male members of the group.
Last time i checked, Rice, Davis and Watson were all hiding behind phony ministries and using Jesus Christ as a human shield.
Much to Leslie's credit, she didn't take that route and you'd think that would be something that would be recognized by the board of parole hearings. It's a sign that Leslie has internally accepted responsibility for what she was a part of. She hasn't hid behind the cross.
Susan was the first of the group to turn to the cross, but she did it for her own personal salvation. She didn't set up a phony ministry like the others.
Leslie has been through 3 trials and 16 or so parole hearings. I believe that she's presented herself accordingly.
Whatever it is your looking for in terms of truth would probably have to come from either Charles Manson or Charles Denton Watson or possibly even Bruce Davis.
If there are any people, "In the Know", it would most likely come from one of the male members of the group.
Last time i checked, Rice, Davis and Watson were all hiding behind phony ministries and using Jesus Christ as a human shield.
Much to Leslie's credit, she didn't take that route and you'd think that would be something that would be recognized by the board of parole hearings. It's a sign that Leslie has internally accepted responsibility for what she was a part of. She hasn't hid behind the cross.
Susan was the first of the group to turn to the cross, but she did it for her own personal salvation. She didn't set up a phony ministry like the others.
Ah Yes .... Jesus, He knows me :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTrYE4a1BmE
This video goes out to Charles Denton Watson, Bruce McGregor Davis and Dennis Rice ..... Praise the Lord and pass the nail file.
Any resemble to this ministry and ALMS is purely intentional.
Just one more thing for that HelterSkelter_Aug_1969 moron.
Never once on this blog did i ever say that I was in love with Susan Atkins. I'm sure that even Colscott will back me up on that statement.
I've tenaciously defended Susan for both personal reasons and because i genuinly feel that she's a good person who should be given a chance to spend her days with her husband who's stood by her for a very long time. James Whitehouse is a good man and I have more respect for him than you know.
This business with Susan only flared up when the Col took a jab at James when he was poking fun at Donald Laisure on one of his posts, which i took offense to.
Maybe i should have just said nothing and let it go, but I did what i felt I had to do because I respect James and didn't like someone taking a cheap shot at him.
I'm under no obligation to explain myself to anyone.
As for videos, here's one that i'm partial to and it goes out to the woman i love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6pf8fI8qy0
Pssssst
Hey Col ..... Here's a top secret video of the Manson Kids paying a visit to their uncle George :-)
Whatever you do, don't tell Bugliosi. He might want to write another book :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlAWjtc3quw
helterskelter_aug_1969 said:
>>>You don't even know Dennis, Bruce or Tex so how is it you can you form an intelligent opinion with people you don't even know?<<<
I'll agree with you on the fact that i don't know these 3 men personally, i think there's more than enough reason to question their motives.
Bill Nelson proved Tex Watson and ALMS to be a sham. Tex's wife, Christian, was obviously scamming people for a ministry that was supposed to be 'Non-Profit'. Bill Nelson proved that to be otherwise. So right away, we all know that Tex and his cross are full of shit.
Then we have Dennis Rice, who for some unknown reason decided to market his "Free Indeed" ministry on a Charlie Manson Website run by a man who's the second coming of Bill Nelson. If a man turns to Jesus, why the hell is he using the Charles Manson name to market his words of wisdom. The whole thing stinks and to make matters worse, both Bruce and Catherine are posting articles to Dennis' ministry website on Charliemanson.com
There's a whole lotta love there ... but i don't know if it's Charlie's love or Jesus'.
As i mentioned above with Bruce Davis, he too shared the communion bread with Tex and dogs that usually hang out together often share fleas as well. Bruce Davis sending anything to Dennis Rice's website through CharlieManson.Com is a red flag in my book.
I don't have to know these 3 guys to know that something stinks somewhere.
Much to Susan's credit, she hasn't worked the Jesus angle to try to deceive or scam anyone like the trifecta above. That's why i give much more credit to Susan's faith than i do the 3 stooges you named.
helterskelter_aug_1969 said:
>>>Then why are you? In one of the last topics you said you were taking a break from the blog. Another short lived break. <<<
I reserve the right to speak if a certain topic captures my interest but if the children decide to romp about and start acting up, then naturally i'll hold back until the nonsense subsides.
The Col's blog can be interesting but there are times when it's obvious that the fools are just playing around.
I still think that the Col should require people to register as members.
Susan_Sucks said:
>>>There's the maturity level we've come to expect from you Savage <<<
No offense, but the name you use isn't exactly a sign of maturity on your part.
It's obvious that you're not fond of Susan, but that's your business.
Susan_Sucks said:
>>>At least I can talk to others without resorting to name calling. Aren't you beyond the middle school years? I would love to discuss Leslie with you further, but who wants to waste time talking with you, much less put any credence into your post when you lower yourself to such childish acts. You seem to be a very intelligent person. Such antics are beneath you.<<<
I'm just essentially taking the position of stating that Leslie is a good woman and I think she's deserving of a chance to spend whats left of her days with those she loves. I've learned to appreciate life because our time in this world is short and the future is very uncertain.
It's hard when you do something in your life that you can't undo and you live day to day with the consequences of that one moment in time when you lost yourself.
I know what's in Leslie's heart and i know that she's also suffered a great deal. She's a good person and she's helped so many women over the years who needed her guidance. I believe in her and I love her dearly.
That's really all I can say.
As for the name calling, I take no pleasure in having to spar with anyone but sometimes you have to defend yourself. People always seem very quick to attack and this case seems to bring out the worst in everyone.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I believe that her wanting to go had alot to do with her feeling a need to prove herself so that she could remain with the group.
I'm in no position to speak for Leslie. What i'm saying here is simply what i see based on what i've come to know.
This is where the Scientology stuff comes into play because Manson used to make a habit of going around to people who were there and making them feel as if they had to do something or prove something in order to be able to stay.
My own personal view is that Leslie was not that close to Manson and was actually closer to Tex Watson even though she was originally introduced to Manson through Bobby Beausoleil.
I think that Leslie was pressured into feeling as if she had to at least make it look like she wanted to belong to the group so she had to give the appearance of wanting to be an active member.
I still believe that had Tex Watson not insisted that Leslie "Do Something" that she would never have done anything so heinous. I think, in her own mind, she probably just intended to go along for the sake of making it look like she was participating, hence earning the right to stay with the group. I don't believe that she ever physically planned on taking part in a murder.
I can't speak for her. I wasn't there so i don't know what was going through her mind but if you look at the details of her involvement, it doesn't show the signature of a woman that was hell bent on going out and taking somebody down. Leslie isn't like that and that physical aggression isn't part of her nature and i believe that her psychological reports back up that statement.
Leslie's wanting to go along had alot to do with the need to feel that she had to prove herself in order to stay with the group. It was a way of fitting in. I don't think that she ever intended on anything of a violent nature and that her wanting to go was her way of making it look like she was giving the impression that she was part of the group.
Leslie's role in the LaBianca home was subservient to the others who were in the house with her. Tex and Pat were clearly the aggressors and Leslie's role was essentially a support role. At one point she was alleged to have been wiping off fingerprints. She wasn't and never intended to be in the role of an aggressor.
And yet here is Leslie essentially doing the same sentence as both Tex and Pat. I don't think that's right and I feel that she's paid her debt to society. Her character is sound and she's a good person inside.
The brainwashing aspect of life at the ranch really doesnt get talked about but yet it explains why these people did what they did.
I think that you'll some of Patricia Krenwinkels statements interesting.
In some of her earlier parole hearings she explained how Manson used to make Pat stand by a tree so he could through knives at her.
It was a way of breaking down her mind to the point where she would trust him totally and as Pat herself had said, he wanted her to be a "Finger on a hand", his hand ... an extension of his will.
This brainwashing served as the motivation for the members of the group to feel as if they had to prove themselves.
Susan sucks said,
"This is strictly for curiosity only"
Good luck, hope you get an answer.
Might take a few days until the character under hypnosis from Savage can think up a response. Or get out of the local mental health institution.
Meaty
Susan sucks said,
"This is strictly for curiosity only"
Good luck, hope you get an answer.
Might take a few days until the character under hypnosis from Savage can think up a response. Or get out of the local mental health institution.
Meaty
Susan sucks said,
"This is strictly for curiosity only"
Good luck, hope you get an answer.
Might take a few days until the character under hypnosis from Savage can think up a response. Or get out of the local mental health institution.
Meaty
Susan sucks said,
"This is strictly for curiosity only"
Good luck, hope you get an answer.
Might take a few days until the character under hypnosis from Savage can think up a response. Or get out of the local mental health institution.
Meaty
Susan_Sucks said:
>>Everyone has it in for Linda because she knew and did nothing to stop it.<<
>>Linda should have served time, but she didn't and that's that<<
>>Now before you say that it was all Linda's fault<<
>>But what makes Linda's actions so inexcusable and Leslie so easily forgiven?<<
That name again!!! Grrrrrr
What was the name of that guy who stuck his head out of the window and screamed, "I'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore".
Linda ..... This Bell's for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kjh9lQXLWk
The main point that i really think gets overlooked is how the scientology aspect was essentially ignored.
Paul Watkins said that, in the beginning, they were all heading towards life. It was about living free and loving one another.
Then, as Vincent Bugliosi had put it, they became a "Nomadic band of Vagabonds that call themeselves the family".
From there, they became a "Murdering Cult". Death Worshipers as Paul Watkins would later say.
Somewhere in the midst of this transformation, you have the sex, drugs and mind control and you can even add in a little healthy paranoia courtesy of the Beatles White Album.
The minds of these girls ... their thoughts and their identities, were slowly being emptied out and replaced by a new way of thinking.
Their minds were being slowly hijacked and they dressed in costumes and assumed different names while at Spahn Ranch. Fantasy became their reality.
Keep in mind that Manson sent Bruce Davis to London to take part in some kind of Scientology seminar. Mind control was obviously something Manson was interested in.
The apocolyptic theme appeared after the Beatles White Album was released in the United States in December of 1968 and by January 01, 1969 Marina Habe would be dead and the death of the 60's was in motion.
Pat Krenwinkels parole hearings i still think were some of the most informative.
The one thing that stands out with me about Pat is that she has that expressionless look on her face.
It's almost as if her personality and her mind was drained from her and she's just there in a semiconscious state. It's as if the essense of who she was had been extracted from her.
She seems to me as if she's the closest thing to a robotic entity that you can get to and is why Stephen Kay said at one of Pat's hearings that Patricia was Manson's complete reflection.
I feel bad for Patricia because deep down all you can see is a woman who only wanted someone to love her. Her homelife was such that her needs were great and that made her more susceptable to brainwashing and mind control. She would be easier to flip as opposed to a woman who was more self disciplined and in control of herself. She became a Jekyl and Hyde type figure.
Salem said:
>>I thought Davis went to take out Pugh??? <<
He did as far as i know. At least that's the belief. Bruce was in London at the time of Joel Pugh's so-called suicide.
I'm curious about something. It was rumored that Jon Aes-Nihl had purchased some of Bill Nelson's material on this case.
I'm wondering if Bill had any notes on Kasabian and whether or not he was able to locate her.
In case any of you missed Dr. Michael Savage's lateset sermon, he had a very interesting program where he was analyzing a song from the Kinks called:
"Living on a thin line".
Now even Dr. Savage is analyzing lyrics .... Charlie once said that the clues are in the music. You make the connection.
Londonistan .... Farewell to England and the West.
All the stories have been told
Of kings and days of old,
But there's no England now.
All the wars that were won and lost
Somehow don't seem to matter very much anymore.
All the lies we were told,
All the lies of the people running round,
They're castles have burned.
Now I see change,
But inside we're the same as we ever were.
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line,
Living this way, each day is a dream.
What am I, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Now another century nearly gone,
What are we gonna leave for the young?
What we couldn't do, what we wouldn't do,
It's a crime, but does it matter?
Does it matter much, does it matter much to you?
Does it ever really matter?
Yes, it really, really matters.
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Now another leader says
Break their hearts and break some heads.
Is there nothing we can say or do?
Blame the future on the past,
Always lost in blood and guts.
And when they're gone, it's me and you.
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line,
Tell me now, what are we supposed to do?
Living on a thin line.
http://www.american-patriot-society.us/mycustompage0014.htm
Savage
Maybe I am tired and it is late but you are very eloquent and while I disagree with many of your points you explain and defend them well.
col
I think Pat has emotion in her - there was parole hearing where she certainly demonstrated that - something along the lines of "The only thing I can do to rectify this is give my own life, and I can't do that" and she became very emotional and cried.
It's difficult to judge by a parole hearing. Do you smile and be friendly? And then people complain, "Look at her smile while she's talking about killing people." Or do you show emotion? And then people complain that you should get ahold of yourself.
Except for Shorty Shea and Gary Hinman, I have never seen any REAL evidence that the killers knew their victims before the murders.
Zoomjaw said:
>>One of the things I feel the parole board feels is that Leslie,if released will go straight to the talk shows. This of course would be seen in the same light as bug and all the others making a buck off of the victims blood and their survivors pain.Right or wrong I'm sure it is on the minds of the board.<<
Personally, what i think Leslie should do, as one of the terms of her being granted a parole, is to have her attorney draft up some kind of legal document that states that she'd waive any right to any paid compensation for any interviews done upon her release or that a large percentage of that money be given directly to one of the victim's charity organizations.
The Doris Tate foundation exists, but i'm not sure if there are any charity organizations that are endorsed by the surviving members of the LaBianca family.
I think this would be a smart move on Leslie's part to show the LaBianca family that she's not getting out with the intention of making money for what she was a part of. I think that this might also ease any concerns that the board of parole hearings has about possibly giving Leslie her parole date and then being second guessed for having done so.
I think if freedom is really what Leslie wants, then i see no reason why she wouldn't agree to such a thing. It makes good sense to me.
I believe that the "Son of Sam" law would prevent her from making money but there are always loopholes around the law. As a parolee, I don't believe that Leslie would be allowed to leave the United States so i don't see her going to England and doing any talk shows there.
If the fear is that the board thinks that Leslie is going to get out and profit from the crime, then i believe that Leslie can and should take some kind of action and give the board that guarantee that this won't happen and structure it in such a way that any paid appearances would benefit the charities recommended by the victims families.
The law governing suitability for parole should be followed but i think if Leslie were to give some kind of written guarantee to the board of parole hearings and to the smaldino family then perhaps this would put to rest the fears of Leslie being able to profit from the victims.
I'm not an attorney, but i think it's a reasonable request and it might just be something that would help her get a parole date.
Susan_Sucks said:
>>If I recall the story correctly, she held Rosemary down so Tex could stab her.<<<
Leslie held Rosemary down when Pat attempted to stab her.
It wasn't until after the struggle broke out that Leslie ran into the hall to call for Tex. When Tex went into the room Leslie remained out in the hall and I believe she was told to wipe off fingerprints.
By the time Leslie was told to "Do Something", both Pat and Tex had already done what they did to Rosemary. How anyone could survive the assault to those two is why i hold firm to the belief that Rosemary was already dead when Leslie was told to do her part.
It doesn't explain away what she did, but I think it allows me to entertain the belief that Leslie is not a murderer.
Whatever Manson's role in these events truly was, it should not overshadow the brutality of what Charles Denton Watson had done. He's a monster and he should have been executed.
You don't hear Watson being called a Mass Murderer by the media, No, that's a term they reserve for Charlie and that's god damn shame because Tex butcherd those people and his knife was that knife that killed Sharon Tate and her child. The media should focus their anger on Watson because that SOB was at both houses on those nights and he's also responsible for the murder of Marina Habe. Why he's still breathing today and running a ministry is beyond words.
I'd kill him myself if i thought it would set Leslie free.
Wasn't me.
I was too young to drive :-)
Salem said:
>>Habe?
ummmmm
I was told bruce was in that and Hughes and the willets and Pugh a few more.
HABE???? <<
There was a very interesting segment on the Barbara Hoyt interview in which Bill Nelson discussed why he believed that Tex Watson was responsible for the murder of Marina Habe.
He claims that Tex Watson was in Hawaii at the time that Marina Habe was attending the University of Honolulu. Somehow or other Tex became acquainted with Marina Habe and it was rumored that Marina Habe had actually visited Spahn Ranch.
Bill alleges that Marina Habe came back to California to spend Christmas with her family and visited Spahn Ranch during that time. She knew Tex Watson, who at the time was staying in a house a few miles away from where Marina Habe's body would eventually be discovered by a jogger on New Years Day, January 1, 1969.
Bill, in his interview with Barbara Hoyt, seemed adamant that Tex was the person responsible for Marina's death. I think Bill was right and it was rumored that both Tex Watson and Bruce Davis were alleged to have had some kind of a party at the house he was staying in. Marina was believed to have been there.
Funny enough, Bill goes on to mention that Mama Watson had come out to visit with Tex at the house that he was staying at and actually left because of some of the things that were going on.
If you haven't listened to that interview that Bill did with Barbara, you should take a look at it. At times, it seemed like Bill was giving out more information than he was getting from Barbara.
It was interesting to hear some of Barbara's claims, especially when she descibes how she crawled under the bunk to go to sleep after listening to Shorty Shea screaming in pain after having been stabbed to death, so she claims.
Salem said:
>>Habe?
ummmmm
I was told bruce was in that and Hughes and the willets and Pugh a few more.
HABE???? <<
There was a very interesting segment on the Barbara Hoyt interview in which Bill Nelson discussed why he believed that Tex Watson was responsible for the murder of Marina Habe.
He claims that Tex Watson was in Hawaii at the time that Marina Habe was attending the University of Honolulu. Somehow or other Tex became acquainted with Marina Habe and it was rumored that Marina Habe had actually visited Spahn Ranch.
Bill alleges that Marina Habe came back to California to spend Christmas with her family and visited Spahn Ranch during that time. She knew Tex Watson, who at the time was staying in a house a few miles away from where Marina Habe's body would eventually be discovered by a jogger on New Years Day, January 1, 1969.
Bill, in his interview with Barbara Hoyt, seemed adamant that Tex was the person responsible for Marina's death. I think Bill was right and it was rumored that both Tex Watson and Bruce Davis were alleged to have had some kind of a party at the house he was staying in. Marina was believed to have been there.
Funny enough, Bill goes on to mention that Mama Watson had come out to visit with Tex at the house that he was staying at and actually left because of some of the things that were going on.
If you haven't listened to that interview that Bill did with Barbara, you should take a look at it. At times, it seemed like Bill was giving out more information than he was getting from Barbara.
It was interesting to hear some of Barbara's claims, especially when she descibes how she crawled under the bunk to go to sleep after listening to Shorty Shea screaming in pain after having been stabbed to death, so she claims.
The autopsy on Marina indicated that she had literally no smog in her lungs so she was murdered not that long after she arrived back on the west coast.
If i remember correctly, Bill stated that he believed that Marina Habe was murdered in the house that Tex was staying at and the body dumped a few miles from the house on New Years Day.
Bill made it sound like he was convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was Tex Watson that Killed her.
After what you saw take place in the Tate and LaBianca residences, I have no reason to doubt that Tex is responsible for Marina Habe's murder.
If that prick really turned to Jesus like he claims to have, then maybe something in his heart should have told him that maybe it's best to confess to it in order to at least give some kind of closure to that mystery. He's obviously not going anywhere and it would be the right thing to do for a man that now calls himself a christian.
He's pure evil, even to this day.
helterskelter_aug_1969 said...
Savage Disciple said...
After what you saw take place in the Tate and LaBianca residences, I have no reason to doubt that Tex is responsible for Marina Habe's murder.
This is just another reason why I hope you never sit on a jury. You've convicted several people of crimes without any proof.
Who needs proof when you have Michael Savage to tell you what to think?
Helter...realize that our savage has no original thought in his dang head.
It comes from a talk show on AM radio or something he has read.
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