There are a lot of crazies out there in the TLB world. I don't mean blinded dickheads like Mark Turner. I mean actual crazies like JimNY Savage.
One of them was this bitch named WHEAT who used to post on a long defunct, retarded TLB board that I can barely remember. Not the Ronson one but one supposedly involving Sadie's former lawyer. She is batty, delusional, talks to wallpaper and doesn't know shit from shinola.
About once a year she shows up to say something retarded to me then goes away. I ignore her.
Yesterday she surfaced. She wrote "Tex is talking. LaBianca was a drug burn. Rosemary had the MDA in her dressing gown."
Now to be clear to the idiots like Poirot who read this blog-
I do not believe she spoke to Tex.
I do not believe Tex is "talking"
I do not believe for sure it was a drug burn.
I do not believe it was MDA.
I do not believe in the Tooth Fairy.
Okay?
But it got me thinking....
Hinman, MDA, alleged drug burn, person tortured and killed. Do you torture someone because he would give you some money you imagine exists? Or do you torture them because they stole from you, or you think they did at least?
Tate House- Frykowski, MDA, people killed and slaughtered, "Go to the Melcher House and Kill everyone", if not Frykowski, why not Melcher or one of the Golden Penetrators?
LaBianca House- don't know for sure about anything, but if the wife left a $2million dollar estate? Sources tell me this is wrong. But after tying them up the message was "you know what to do, don't be as messy." Which could mean "get the fucking drugs back bitches."
The police initially thought it was drugs. Drugs are EVERYWHERE in the story.
And yet people insist it isn't drugs?
28 comments:
Oh, I think for sure it was drugs. And everybody else did too. Too many coincidences...Joel Rostau, etc...
No no no, you guys have it all wrong! It happened because Charlie hated blacks, you see, despite the fact that they had never done shit to him. Also he was hearing secret message from a musical group he barely listened to, telling him to start a race war. As you do.
But alas, little Charlie was a chickenshit himself, despite having previously stood up to much larger people carry knives and guns on many an occasion. So he invented a way to brainwash people to kill for him, (something that decades of CIA research had been unable to do)along the way convincing everybody that he was Jesus Christ.
He then unleashed his 'zombies' on an unsuspecting society, instructing them to kill people in "witchy" ways so their deaths would be blamed on blacks.
1st up was poor Sharon Tate, because NOTHING screams 'black retaliation' like the slaying of a minor movie starlett.
He then did the same the next night when his group RANDOMLY killed a couple which comprised a supermarket manger with mob ties and a gambling problem and an ex waitress who's tips jar must have been the size of an industrial drum.
In a flash of genius he then planted the couple's wallet in the only black neighbourhood in LA where no blacks actually lived!!
Having decided that the end of the world was now nigh, Charlie then kicked back at the ranch, safe in the knowledge that he was untouchable.
I am Vincent Bugliosi and I am a cunt.
Adam
That is Brilliant. Bravo. Truly in awe.
Aim to please Col!
In all seriousness however, has any actually stopped to think what a dangerous game the Bug was playing with the HS/Brainwashing angle?
He already had Manson physically tied to the second night, that's accessory to murder right there. Throw in the auto theft, underage sex and drug possession charges while out on Federal Parole and Charlie was set to do some serious hard time anyway. BUG DIDN'T HAVE TO USE THE HIPPIE CULT LEADER WITH MAGIC POWERS CARD. HE ALREADY HAD HIS CONVICTION IN THE BAG.
By persisting with the brainwashed into mindless killers, incapable of making their own choices, claim, he was actually handing the defense team 'get out of jail free' cards for Sadie, Pat and Horsey. The defense team should have palyed this for all it was worth. They didn't and Bug got to have his cake and eat it too.
Hi Adam,
By the time of her third trial, that's pretty much what horsey's defense attorney tried to do, hoping for manslaughter and time served. Didn't work out.
Her own testimony about wanting to go along on the second night turned against her diminished capacity defense. Murder. Pre-meditated.
Enjoyed your 'you guys have it all wrong' post. :)
LOL That is a funny post...
a few years ago I might have posted something very similar...
( not as funny maybe- that was good stuff)
But after reading the available information over and over...
I think that some of that stuff is true....
I think Charlie did dislike black people
I think he did have the power of suggestion over some of them- and that some of them did think he was Jesus Christ ( I have watched Brooks Posten say it)..
I think Rosemary Labianca had more money than anyone who died at the Tate House- but not sure if that mattered or not...
I think if you watch the Henrickson documentary- Sandy/Squeaky/Nancy look and act like mindless zombies- who repeat charlie like parrots...
and I think that Charlie picked the bathroom to dump the purse for a reason- because going out of your way for something that can done so easily- usually has a purpose behind it...
I mostly think- that Bugs made a legend out of the H/S theory, and blew it up beyond and reasonable semblance of what really happened..
But again- I dont think he made it up out of thin air...
Now- it always amazed me too that he got it both ways- Charlie was responsible because he controlled them- but they are responsible for themselves and had to be responsible for themselves..
that is the one thing he pulled off that nobody seems to give him any credit for- but it is quite a trick to use an argument first one way, and then completely turn course and use it the other way...
He got the jury to go with him in both directions, and for that you can blame anyone you want- the jury, the lawyers...
but he had to do one thing to get Charlie- and he had to do another to get the others...
He proved he was willing to do whatever it took to get them all...
but remember- just as much as bugs built the legend of the cult leader and his zombies...
they played right along with it in front of rolling cameras, and acted the parts to the tee in the courtroom- so they did nothing to dispell what Bugs was pushing..
and if he didn't need the extra stuff to win the case- he surely did to make the story a life long cash cow- and again- he succeeded in accomplishing that as well....
and again- Charlie/LULU/Katie/Sadie did nothing to stop him from be able to make it as big as he wanted- they just kept flaming the fire...
you could make an argument that the only ones who got anything at all out of the whole mess of a case was the lawyers- and Bugs has to be at the top of that list...
The Manson family for him was and still is the gift that just keeps on giving...
But he is certainly a C
and Adam- that post was certainly funny as .... curl on an apartment sidewalk :)
If the only motive was drugs...why kill the LaBiancas? They didn't have any. Not in their systems, not in their house.
None...nada.
Wasn't Shorty's wife black...and Charlie didn't approve?
According to family members, as per Charlie's orders, they listened to the White Album day & night.
Charlie didn't invent brainwashing, or mind control, whatever you want to call it. It's been a useful tool of cult leaders for years. And it was a useful tool for Charlie. If you don't agree, then you didn't watch the "show" at the trials.
Charlie did tell the girls to "write something witchy".
Charlie's reason for the killings is known only to him.
If Mrs. LaBianca had $2,000,000, why didn’t she just pay Leno’s gambling debts?
If Bugliosi hadn't used Helter Skelter, he could never have gotten a death sentence for Charlie. At best, he might have gotten 10 or 15 years, with parole, which means maybe 6 years. Then he's out again, gathering young people to kill.
Why not squash it once and for all? Charlie is not now, nor was he ever, innocent.
If you want to hate Vincent Bugliosi, that's your right. But he did his job. And he did it well. He convinced a jury that was scared out of their minds...and rightly so because of constant death threats....to convict 8 people of murder or conspiracy to commit murder.
A lot more than I can say for some people. Did Charlie ever even have a job other than being a pimp?
maybe mrs. labianca didn't even of her husband's gambling debt, maybe he was too proud to tell her.
I always thought the copycat idea -- making TLB look like whoever killed Gary was NOT Bobby and therefore the killer(s) was/were still on the loose -- was a decent theory. But I don't really see the connection where the LaBiancas fit in.
Col, why do you have to be so mean to Thelma / Wheat? If you disagree with her, fine, but is the name calling really necessary?
It does not say that she spoke to Tex. It says, Tex is talking. He might be talking to a guard, a visitor, or someone who collects memorabilia.
Then, after insulting her, you cheerfully use her theory.
Which, if MDA is the same as methamphetamines or speed, is very likely true.
MDA = precursor to MDMA aka ecstasy, drug of choice during the "second summer of love" in Manchester, UK. It's got speedy properties but also a big, fat sensory love trip. 1969 would have been very early in the game for this "designer drug."
If Leslie's now to be known as "Horsey", we better come up with names for the others.
Pat's too easy = "Hairy", "Yeti", "Bigfoot", "Cousin It", "Silverback"... the list is endless.
Linda, I was thinking "Skilletface", "Popeye" or "Chinfest".
Susan? "Sexy Sadie" easily becomes "Skanky Sadie". There's got to be a nickname we can get out of her having one droopy tit. Ideas?
Another Linda one I forgot to add was "Chinzillia".
JUST BECAUSE THE TRUTH BE KNOWN TO A FEW.. DOESN'T MEAN THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWN TOO ALL.
THELMA
T/L are two old bats that kicked me off there sight for yelling at Leary 7 !!!
but actually- I always liked those two old bats until they kicked me off... ( aside from tossing me- I still do)
Who the hell is this women really???
So many rumors in this world- but she seems to have some insight...
Is it real? or did they take me for a ride in addition to throwing me out on my hinalineous??
Can either of them help me understand this case?
Do they really like Leary more than me???
If they do why???? I am handsome and who knows what he looks like...
these are the questions I have for T/L.....
I've been on a number of boards with Salem (aka Wheat aka Thelma, etc.) for about eight years now. (I've changed my handle a few times too).
She is a charming lady (when not under attack) and has a very simple position which can be summarised as follows:
1. she pretty much knows what happened
2. she knows many of the people involved
3. she's not talking except to remind us of 1 and 2
4. she sees no need to provide any supporting evidence.
That's really all you need to know, I guess.
FrankM
if she knew number 1 she sure would help a-lot of us if she would share...
MDA was an interesting drug. It came into the Chicago Burbs about 1981 (at least my circle of friends). It was a fluffy powder that looked 1 1/2 bigger than a corresponding gram of crystal meth. You had to do about 1/4 to 1/3 of a gram by snorting which was a lot of powder. Its effects was to make you feel warm all over. Everything was fine and you loved everyone. There was a little blurriness of objects if you stared at them like on weak blotter acid. It peaked for about an hour and took about 4-6 hours to come completely down.
Shak El may have just described Gibby Folger's reported condition (warm all over, loves everyone, slightly blurry vision) as she waved to Susan Atkins in the hallway.
Of course, it was very hot that night, Gibby was a very kind person, and it was likely dark in the hall.
Would MDA have shown up in autopsy toxicology reports at that time, or was it something that Noguchi et al were not yet screening for?
I've seen girls screaming over, and mimicking, Justin Beiber, too. Does Justin have the power of mind control? Or do young folks mimick people that they choose to idolize?
In re the remark about Charles hating minorities... not fond of the dangerous black gangs in prison, but who is? Charles has helped an inmate of African descent buy textbooks for school. He fixed up another black inmate with a pen pal. His "peer counselor" for a while was Mexican American.
Thelma, Wheat, Vicky and Soybean are the same person, a lady who is a soybean farmer from the eastern seaboard, who associated with several of the "family" in the 60s and 70s, and who corresponded with Charles. She has heard many of their stories and knows quite a bit about the case.
I know for a fact that she has associated with "family" members, and here is why:
A while back, when Susan A. was dying, Charles got the notion that he'd achieve closure with her and other co-conspirators to the "unfortunate incidents" by writing to them. He requested that I assist him. Charles also hoped that Atkins would testify and exonerate him. I typed copies of his letters, and sent the originals w/ copies on to Susan's address in the free world, and other co-conspirators' addresses in prison.
Several of their loved ones did not like that, and griped to "Thelma" to ask me to stop sending the letters. Thelma did not know Charles had written the letters, and she did not know that I had sent them onward. She could not have made up the co-conspirators' family members' requests that I quit sending Charles's letters to them.
Therefore, when Thelma makes a statement that a person involved with the case knows certain information, I believe her.
I still have copies of the nasty-grams that Whitehouse and a few other people wrote to me. Charles got caught forwarding mail to "crimies" and got his mail privs suspended for a couple of months.
Shak El just described a menopausal hot flash. Warm all over, blurry vision, emotional roller-coaster...
this is such a bad website. from the cheap clipart to the poorly written articles and dumb theories.
revatron said...
this is such a bad website. from the cheap clipart to the poorly written articles and dumb theories.
Then I guess you won't be revisiting, which is probably a good thing for all of us.
FrankM
Never let it be said that I think a whole lot of Susan Atkins, BUT, if you read her writings of events and family interaction, She says over and over that HS was just something Charlie told the women to keep them in the family. Charlie always told the men the real motives for their crimes, which were always over money, money, and more money. If you look all the way back to her first parole hearing, HER story does not change at all, unlike the rest of them who are on their 10th version of what happened.
adam said...
In all seriousness however, has any actually stopped to think what a dangerous game the Bug was playing with the HS/Brainwashing angle?
If there was no truth to HS, then Bugliosi could only be one thing ~ an utter and absolute idiot. Going the HS route was by far the harder route and if anyone seriously wants to doubt that, look through every thread and post of every Manson/TLB related blog since, say, 2005, and count how many people believe or accept HS and compare it with the vast population that do not.
Most TLB bloggers do not believe or accept it. So to run with it means either Bugliosi believed it or Bugliosi believed it because he had reason to believe it.
He already had Manson physically tied to the second night, that's accessory to murder right there
Not true. He had testimony from Atkins and later Kasabian. Neither proves without doubt that Manson was there. There was no actual corroborating evidence that he was there.
Throw in the auto theft, underage sex and drug possession charges while out on Federal Parole and Charlie was set to do some serious hard time anyway
Not true. All of this existed long before the Barker arrests. No one had put him away for numerous parole violations. And remember, he never was even charged for plugging Lotsapoppa.
BUG DIDN'T HAVE TO USE THE HIPPIE CULT LEADER WITH MAGIC POWERS CARD. HE ALREADY HAD HIS CONVICTION IN THE BAG
Not at all true. He most certainly did not have the conviction of Charles Manson in the bag.
What so many Bugliosi haters blindly ignore is the number of independent revelations of Charlie's leadership. A few examples, the April '68 story about the nude hippies {check post no.19} that names Charlie as the self proclaimed leader, Brooks Poston's 3rd Oct '69 interview with Sheriff Ward {Poston didn't even connect the Family with TLB}, the Ronnie Howard and Virginia Graham interviews of Nov '69, the Al Springer and Danny DeCarlo interviews of Nov '69, the words of the 2 LASO officers on 10th August to the 2 LAPD detectives; they spoke about the Family, stating that their leader Charlie had convinced them he was Christ, the arresting officers' {travelling in the meat wagon with Charlie and the girls after the Barker arrests} observation of Charlie's control with just a look.....
Everyone is free to ignore the mounting evidence of Charlie's leadership and control. I'd rather not ignore the blatantly obvious.
By persisting with the brainwashed into mindless killers, incapable of making their own choices, claim
He pulled off a very difficult thing which was to demonstrate that they were influenced into killing, something that some of them likely would not have done otherwise, yet at the same time, being sufficiently in control of themselves to be able to make the decision to kill.
To be honest, if one is observant, you can see this kind of thing all the time. I've seen it for 30 years with kids and young people.
he was actually handing the defense team 'get out of jail free' cards for Sadie, Pat and Horsey
He wasn't at all. Key to the prosecution's case was the notion that all four {and later Watson} were guilty but in different ways. Charlie's guilt had come from a totally different wing than that of Susan and Pat. And on the night of the LaBianca killings, Leslie, Pat and Susan carried a different kind of guilt than Charlie who called the shots. But they were all legally guilty of murder.
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