Dear Family and Friends,
A brief update . . .
My parole hearing is rapidly approaching. In my earlier email notice about the hearing I failed to actually mention when it would occur, and a few of you have expressed concern that the window of opportunity to write a letter for the hearing may already have closed. Sorry for the oversight!
There is still time to get a letter in, if you are so inclined, and if you have not done so already, but not much. The hearing is scheduled for Monday morning December 13th. For a letter to be submitted to the hearing panel within the time constraints it will need to be received by my attorney no later than November 23rd. Here is the address again, for convenience.
Law Offices of Steven E. Moretz
PO Box 455
Victorville, CA 92393-0455
To those of you who have already sent letters, my heartfelt gratitude. If you have not heard from me personally by now, you will soon.
I'm feeling strong. Regardless of what the outcome of the hearing turns out to be, my integrity will not be shaken. I am putting my best effort forward, and that's what counts.
With peace in my heart, and peace to you,
Bobby
51 comments:
Dear Parole Board,
Please let Bummer Bob out of jail. He Killed Gary in cold blood after letting him bleed painfully and slowly for many hours while listening to him beg for help. He stole his cars after finally putting him out of misery- but he did impress some bikers, Charlie and some skanky Ho's- so it wasn't for nothing...
Bob took drugs, slept with lots of women and honored not one relationship he ever entered into- be it business or personal. His main focus on life was doing whatever was best for himself and what made him happy- and neither others peoples feelings, or even lives were ever to get in the way of that....
But you should let him go now. He hasn't turned to the church- or made any phony excuses. After he told three different versions of the story to authorities- he finally settled on one and stuck to it for many years. He has found a way ( some would call it boredom) to prosper behind bars- and he has a loyal wife who would help him with his adjustment....
I'll say this- he is the most reasonable sounding these days of all of them....
But- Bobby was a self serving selfish bastard- and almost anyone who met him says that by what I have read. I read his website all the time- and he is very much in love with himself..
I dont think he would be a danger if they let him out, and it wouldn't bother me too much if they do...
But he did What LULU did ( one stabbing each) and she is my favorite lol PLUS - he is responsible for bringing her into this mess- so he should have to stay -at least- as long as she does :)
Wow, really good ,Saint! Really good!
How do you figure he did what Lulu did?
...and, aside from Lulu being responsible for herself, doesn't the lying Gypsy share responsibility for hooking her up with CM?
Sure the Lying Gypsy gets some of the
credit- absolutely. Bobby probably would have preferred to keep all of them to himself- and no doubt Gypsy had some play in getting her into Charlies fold...
I figure they both took part in stabbing someone. Bobby was more culpable obviously as he was alone in stabbing Gary, whereas LULU was one of three and may, or may not have been directly responsible for Rosemarie's death ( I will let others argue that)- There is no doubt Bobby was responsible for Gary's...
But taking all others out of the equation- they both stuck one person each with a knife so that makes there participation even in my book....
Also never said LULU wasnt responsible for herself. If she participated in murder- she is right where she belongs ( my fav or not) but if she belongs there for being one of three- Bobby has to belong for being one in one.
All of us were teenagers, and some of us may still be... how many of you remember hanging around a in large groups of 16 to 25 year olds??
Good- now what was the dynamic in those groups? Was it the younger impressionable girls who called the shots, and made the decisions? was it the weakest and most naive who set the agenda??
Nope it was the older ,street smart guys who did all the thinking, and made all the calls. The younger girls developed crushes, and more or less did whatever they thought would win over the approval of the rest of the group. They would do things very out of character from the way they were raised all in the name of " fitting in". How many very successful women I know know who are married with great families- who dated the biggest dirtbags back in high school because they were " popular"...
This has always been around- and all of us have lives some version of it...
Weather it was Bobby or Charlie- those girls all did what they thought would make them seem more significant in the eyes of the guy they dug... Those men were living a life were it was accepted that they could have multiple partners, and the women couldn't even question it. Hard to get any extra attention when the deck is stacked like that.... you have to get pretty extreme to stand out with that much competition....
I think some of them did..
'they both stuck one person each with a knife so that makes their participation equal...'
I'm not seeing the part about equal participation.
How can that be when sticking one person each with a knife was not their only participation in separate and different scenes of murder?
I understand regardless of the argument whether or not any of the sixteen stab wounds LVH inflicted to Rosemary were fatal while Beausoleil killed Gary Hinman with two stab wounds to his heart but LVH was convicted of conspiring to murder two people, and found equally responsible as the killer for the murder of those two people.
And just for the record, I didn't say that you said LVH wasn't responsible for herself...
just saying.
I think my point was that they both were directly involved in the death of one person...
no point in arguing over who is responsible for what- The way they charged who for what makes no sense at all... the night of Labianca- Clem , Sadie, and Linda all had the same roll- and were all held accountable differently ( Clem not at all) So you really cant use that as a threshold...
But in my opinion- Leslie stabbing a person who had already been rendered unconscious by others is not worse and does not deserve more punishment than Bobby instigating and stabbing to death a man who was still coherent and begging for mercy when he did it.
Leslie Stabbed someone who was not awake at the time- I used a reference once to poking a a dead animal on the side of the road. That is a crude, cold way to demonstrate it- but valid. There is not much reaction, and not much horror to deal with when she was in the midst of these actions-
close your eyes and thrust a few times with no reaction... its over.
Now contrast that with an alert person who is bleeding and making sounds and smells that take the air pout of the room. You are watching someone you know slowly bleeding to death, and listening to them beg for help and mercy...
Now maybe LULU would have walked right up and did what bobby did- but that is a whole different ballgame if you ask me...
So I say what he did was, at least, as heinous- and he should be in as least as long...
But if you all think he has been a good boy and should be able to go home to Barbara- then I wont be to upset.
P.S.- Speaking of Barbara... ( Tex Watson wife as well although I know she split)...
I really dont get people who do this. So here is an open letter to Barbara Bummer :
Lonely nights, holidays, and weekends. No physical contact. no children to watch grow up together. no holding hands at the park, no ice skating on the lake...
I could go on and on about all the things that every person dreams about - that you will never do...
Why, of all the people on this planet would you choose to be with someone who you will never, ever, really get to know?? All the letters, and calls and secrets you think you are sharing are NOT REAL.
You are hearing the sanitized, lonley thoughts of a person who has to much time on his hands. what they say when they have nothing but time on there hands- is very different from the way they act when they are free- which is why they are where they are in the first place...
Bobby bummer had no time for relationships when he had the choice, and now that he has absolutely no other options- I bet he is very loving and kind.
There are men in free society who have talent, and virtue- some of them will even be flawed if thats your need.. but most of them have never killed anyone.... I am sure that you are touched by how much he has accomplished and what he has been able to do with a bad situation..
but sometime- think about the bad situation. It isn't just bad. He murdered a friend for money, and then took off in his car. If he didn't get caught-I would bet you anything he doesn't make too many changes.
But he did, and now he has to pay for it, and you have decided this is the very best you could do for yourself???
To me - that makes you even sadder than those involved- some of them had no choice, and/or didn't realize where this was headed. you knew all about it and instead of walking away as fast as you could- you walked right into it.. you asked for this :) You chose this person and this life forever...
That's as scary to me as anything Charlie ever did....
Incarceration nation...
One last note on Bummer Bob...
He has added a nice essay on the prison system to his profile, and it is a very well thought out and written piece.
However- He fails to mention that despite the growing size of the prisons, and the financial profiteering that no doubt is happening- there is one thing he could have done to stay out of the jaws of this systematic monster...
Don't kill people for money.
The same thing that is happening to prisoners all over the country could, and would happen to you and I as well- save for one small exception- we aren't incarcerated.
I dont like the smell of cows, and really don't want to walk around in cow shit- so ya know what....
I don't hang out on farms..
Sometimes life really is that simple. Despite all the problems , and all the " vagrancies of a corrupt system" or whatever he calls it... The only one Bobby has to blame for his current whereabouts is himself. Just one of them - one time should acknowledge that. No Charlie- no bad systems, no lack of role models. Lots of people have really bad lives and still dont do really bad things.
When you say you are taking responsibility for your actions, but you are still complaining about your treatment, and asking for help from others to assist you in being excused from your actions- are you really taking responsibilities for your actions?
"I think my point was that they both were directly involved in the death of one person..."
I don't have a problem comprehending your point. However, my point was that I don't believe your point is true. Reality is that LVH was convicted in two murders, and conspiracy to murder. Regardless that she stabbed only one of the victims, she 'was involved in the death' of two people. And the law makes her guilt equal to the guilt of the killer.
Leslie Van Houten willingly walked into the LaBianca house...with
full knowledge the people she was with that night had committed murder the night before. LVH knew she was with them to kill again. And within minutes of LVH and her friends entering the house on Waverly, the two people living there were horribly dead... their bodies desecrated. So she stabbed a woman that may have been near death, still she hacked at her 16 times.
I think it's important...in your idea of equality between LVH and BB that it took Beausoleil 36 hours I
think...something like that, maybe longer, for BB to stab Gary Hinman and kill him...as opposed to walking in the house to kill and immediately getting to it, going to the knife drawer, tying up and immobilizing Rosemary and calling in the killer to get it done.
"But in my opinion- Leslie stabbing a person who had already been rendered unconscious by others is not worse and does not deserve more punishment than Bobby instigating and stabbing to death a man who was still coherent and begging for mercy when he did it.
Leslie Stabbed someone who was not awake at the time- I used a reference once to poking a a dead animal on the side of the road. That is a crude, cold way to demonstrate it- but valid. There is not much reaction, and not much horror to deal with when she was in the midst of these actions-"
Regardless of how you see it,
the facts are that Leslie Van Houten was found guilty in the murder of two people..."multiple victims"...and while they're both guilty of disregard for human life, Beausoleil was convicted in one murder.
What about Clem? He stabbed one person...he clubbed Shorty Shea and then stabbed him in the heart...and got out in 15 years.
Not understanding the relevance of bringing up the inconsistencies in the prosecution...at least regarding the idea of equality between LVH and BB...
Sorry for all the deletes. Same reply published four or five times with an error saying it couldn't...
Well if you want to be technical about it... lol :)
Yes- you are right. She was charged with 2 versus Bobby with one. Although I still say her direct involvement in both is less than Bobby's in his one. And much less vicious as well....
But not any less culpable - and your right two convictions are more than one conviction in a literal sense...
BUT ( always a but lol) -
Since in this case Cupid is asking for help and wants support in gaining freedom- I am free to make my own personal determination as to his worthiness- as are we all
And I wont use such technicalities to make my own personal decision...
So I concede that maybe LULU was a bad example of why he should still be in, and your also right- Clem is a good example why maybe he should get out....
I really dont feel that strongly about it to tell you the truth.
But when your right -your right!!
Also- Charlie went in and tied them up- Tex Stabbed Leno alone, and LULU wasn't in the room when he did...
so I wont argue she was charged and convicted with Two murders-
But her " participation" in the second murder was that she was in the house at the time...
not sure I would call that Direct involvement, or even Direct participation...
But she was there and did get convicted- so again I'll say your right on the point.
So - since luckily for Bobby nobody else was home when he went to Gary's, and unlucky for LULU that two people were home at the place Charlie chose- she is the worse criminal.... But still my favorite!!
Actually- none of them were very nice people, and all of there victims are dead, so why not just let them all stay in jail and argue among themselves who was the worse, and we can split the difference??
You say that what Leslie did was like poking some dead animal (sorry I'm not quoting your exact words, while Beausoleil killed a living, bleeding man begging, pleading, and suffering etc...)
Did Rosemary not suffer when a pillowcase was yanked over her head, when she was tied down with a lamp as heavy as a hunk of concrete...its cord wrapped around her neck to hold the pillowcase in a hood over her head? LVH did that. She either did it alone or did it with her angry, ugly friend Pat. The woman was trying to swing that lamp at those skank killers. She heard her husband being slashed to death in the next room and became hysterical. Is that not terror, and the suffering of a living, breathing, fully aware human being?
All while being stabbed at by Pat. Did Rosemary not bleed? Did she not feel those wounds being inflicted? Did she not suffer with the violence and horror of her predicament there in her own bedroom, with her own pillowcase over her head, in the privacy of her own home? Listening to her husband being gutted in the next room? Imagine the desperate sounds of your family being stuck and slashed and stabbed in the next room of your own home....
Is that not suffering?
Pat was stabbing at Rosemary while LVH held her down and fought with her...I think it's generally overlooked how hard Rosemary must've fought, and LVH fought back! This was not some scared little hippie chick standing in the hallway while big bad Tex did all the dirty work. And poor me, been locked up 40 years now. all i did was just stand there and maybe stabbed a little bit but afterall, i felt she was dead. and anyway, tex made me do it and i wanted charlie to love me too. That is BS.
The blaming...for decades LVH blamed others and 'minimized' her own involvement, just like people fighting for her release seem to minimize her involvement. However, the reality is that within hours of the first night of slaughter, LVH admits to being aware of it, admits to having felt left out and wanting to be in on the second night...she was in the car for how long that night? She heard someone in the car say something about you're not gonna kill a priest are ya...she knew killing was going to go on that night...
Did she run when she got out of the car? No, she went up the driveway and into the house like a good little worker. She even went into the dead woman's closet and stole clothes. What kind of creep does that? And what kind of creep stabs a dead...if she was, woman anyway? Or pokes at a dead animal on the side of the road...though I think it's disgusting to even remotely suggest something like that regarding Rosemary LaBianca and the horrifying ordeal of her suffering and death.
And asking for help in getting out...LVH has had three trials, she's had a group of "friends" supporting her and asking for help and support in getting her paroled for decades. She has men on their knees...some of them whacks but whatever...
I don't understand the contempt directed at Beausoleil, or others on his behalf, for seeking parole support. He's done his time, he's been in prison 41 years...for one first degree murder. He hasn't spent the bulk of his incarceration minimizing his own involvement or blaming someone else for his own criminal acts. And remember, he had a hung jury too...and by the time of his second trial, the Manson circus was in full swing.
If you want to compare circumstances for involvement 'in
the death of only one person' how about Clem? He was intimately involved in the death of one person
(and yes, i realize the situation about the selective prosecution) but as for stabbed only one person...he ambushed, clubbed, and stabbed Shorty Shea in the heart ...killing him...and then lied and let his remains rot for years, but was paroled in 15 years, 25 years less, so far, than Bobby Beausoleil. Bobby Beausoleil will likely never be released...how does that compare to Clem's 15 years?
What Leslie did was really really horrible. inexcusable. The terror she caused that poor women is not defensible, and she surely deserves to sit right there with Pat for all eternity. I HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. EVER!! I only SAID that ( and I was using her in a joking matter actually originally) BOBBY may very well deserve to also.
I know that the words I used to describe what happened to Rosemarie at Leslie's hands was very cold- but we are adults and it was a long time ago, and it is hard to demonstrate a point verbally without taking some liberties... and it is accurate.
She did go in to a strange home, and she did wrestle with and terrorize a defenseless women, and she should rot in hell for doing that forever- or at least Corona/Frontera...
But Leslie Van Houten in of herself did not Kill Leno, and it is up for debate weather she killed Rosemarie personally. All I am pointing out is that Gary died more directly from Bobbys actions, than Rosemary did from LULU's.
They were all wrong though, and I thought that was understood.
LULU is not my favorite because I have any fondness for her at all. Rather just the opposite. I think she was the most ridiculous of all the girls. Her confident laughing in some of the prison videos I have seen- letters she wrote to friends- all promising to be free in a matter of years. She really never did get it...
I dont feel bad for her- I choose to get a kick out of the fact that her punishment may be worse than others, because I really don't think it occurred to her- that her cutesy little smile, and little girl charm couldn't get her out of there at some point.
Clem got out for one and only one reason- he gave them what they wanted. He never deserved to go anywhere that quick either- but he played the game, so he walked.
Maybe he wasn't as dumb as everyone though he was...
Don't kid yourself- Tex DID do all the dirty work. Say what you want about Charlie- this whole thing never happens on this level if not for Charles TEX Watson...
Like I said- if they let Bobby out- its not that big of a deal to me. but who cares about a hung jury- he said himself he did it. WE all know he did it, and weather or not it is worse than what anyone else did- he did what he did. if you want to let him go because he " did his time"- then I wont argue, and I don't have contempt for anyone who supports him- just those who marry him- because that is a sick and twisted thing to do- but obviously one women dug him enough to do it- and obviously you dig him enough to go this crazy defending him over one comment I made about him regarding LULU that was mostly a joke-
So maybe Cupid still has his mojo...
"However- He fails to mention that despite the growing size of the prisons, and the financial profiteering that no doubt is happening- there is one thing he could have done to stay out of the jaws of this systematic monster...
Don't kill people for money."
He didn't "kill people"...he killed a person. One man. One horribly brutal and cruel murder of a man that did not deserve to die.
And why is it that 41 years is not long enough?
The murder occurred before the Tate LaBianca slaughter, but the final outcome came in the midst of it all. When he committed murder in July, the sixties, as they say, hadn't ended yet...that happened on August 8, 1969. No one could have imagined what was about to come. This was still hippies in Topanga Cyn buying and selling good and bad dope. Not lessening the brutality in any way...but the man has paid.
I don't believe he went to Gary Hinman's house saying I'm going to kill that sob but first I'm gonna make him suffer for two days. He's guilty of killing Gary...of murdering him, but isn't it possible that it escalated after it was in progress....he went there with Crazy Sadie and Mary Brunner...of all people, Mother Mary. In the past, Gary helped Mary feed her baby...they weren't going there to kill him...unlike
the pre meditated planning engaged in by Tex, Pat, Susan, Leslie, Linda, Clem et al. But murder happened.
How do we reconcile keeping Beausoleil for 40 some years, and some other killer, or even a member of a criminal street gang for fifteen or twenty five?
Like I said- if they let Bobby out- its not that big of a deal to me. but who cares about a hung jury- he said himself he did it. WE all know he did it, and weather or not it is worse than what anyone else did- he did what he did. if you want to let him go because he " did his time"- then I wont argue, and I don't have contempt for anyone who supports him- just those who marry him- because that is a sick and twisted thing to do- but obviously one women dug him enough to do it- and obviously you dig him enough to go this crazy defending him over one comment I made about him regarding LULU that was mostly a joke-
"Dig him"....where are you coming up with this stuff? How does someone have this kind of logic?
Dig him???
How about let's look at the facts, the facts and the evidence ~ something you seem a tad short on.....
K - here is how I reconcile keeping him there for 40 years....
He killed someone. He was sentenced to death- and yet he gets to live- so he is already ahead of the game.
He Killed someone. They are gone. forever. Our society says he has to stay in jail for the rest of his life as a penalty for taking the life of another...
If you want to rationalize away that fact by saying someone else was worse, or the times were a certain way, or speculate on what he really intended to do- have a blast :)
But at the end of the day- he went into the home of someone who trusted him, and made that person suffer and ultimately die for giving him that trust....
And that makes him a murdering scumbag...
Then he tried to hide what he did and run....
And that makes him a chicken shit scumbag...
So - as bad and premeditated as what the others did- and even if it is comparing apples to oranges- in this case all the fruit is bad...
No winners here...
and if Bobby goes home someday- it wont bother me too much because Gary seems to have been a drug dealing scumbag- and it was a long time ago , and again - I dont think he would hurt anyone...
But please don't sing me his song about all the other criminals, and who had to do what for how long... I DONT CARE!! IF YOU DIDNT GET YOURSELF THERE IT WOULD BE A MOOT POINT. He Killed someone- and it doesn't matter that it was person not people- when he took ANY life he lost his ability to bitch...
What type of person who is in jail marries someone??
You can never see me-
you can never be alone with me-
I cant do much to support you-
I cant be there for you when you need me
BUT - wait for me- stay true to me- help me....
Asking so much, and giving so little- Doesn't sound much like he has changed to me.... To Bobby- it still revolves all around Bobby...
The fact is- you are choosing one killer over another- probably because one was a cute guy- and the other was a cute girl...
Because you seem hell bent against the Girls- and only an idiot would think any of them would do anything without the influence and approval of the men. Crazy Sadie- and Mother Mary didnt stab Gary did they? Sadie even had a gun... but your BOY BOBBY was the one who did the damage.... THOSE ARE FACTS
HERE IS ANOTHER FACT - He will probably die in jail :)
Also- Charlie went in and tied them up- Tex Stabbed Leno alone, and LULU wasn't in the room when he did...
so I wont argue she was charged and convicted with Two murders-
But her " participation" in the second murder was that she was in the house at the time...
not sure I would call that Direct involvement, or even Direct participation...
Well you tell that to the State of California.
It doesn't matter. You can be the shooter, you can be the killer, you can be the driver, or you can just stand there and not do anything to stop or prevent it, and you're just as guilty of pre meditated, first degree crimes...aiding and abetting and all that. She shares equally in the guilt, and when you look at the entire scope of the crime and not just selective pieces, she absolutely should...
Get over the Leslie thing. She isn't going anywhere either.
Marliese- I have a weird sense of humor. I like to make my points in a certain way. But when people dont agree- I dont personally attack them or question them. This is a place for opinions- and I am not shy with mine...
When leslie asks for letters and it gets posted here- I will be the first to point out that she is a murdering whore as well - I promise. I never should have mentioned anyone else- this is about Bobby- who ( for the 4'th time) probably would make a good candidate for parole)- you dont need to convince me what was worse, or who is the bigger criminal....
The state of California really doesn't matter to me either. I have my own idea of who is to blame for what- and who is a bigger piece of shit than who.
So lets just agree to disagree on this :)
When people ask how women can be so easily fooled into following the wrong men- I think of conversations like this.
After everything he did- people still will fight for him, and his cause...
Before he got to jail and had nothing but time on his hands- can you name one positive thing he ever did?? Family - professionally?? ever one positive contribution? He screwed his band- he screwed his friends- he screwed his girlfriends- he screwed anger- he screwed EVERYONE he came into contact with... Except Gary- who he killed.
Unless you believe everyone was wrong and everyone is lying about BOBBY-
Yeah that must be it.
Bobby always said if he got out he would "start my own family "...
Maybe I can help him recruit lol Im sort of good at that after all ;)
and I may have found his second member...
Im sure He and Barb would consider an " open relationship" Those are his favorite kind!!
( I cant help myself sometimes)
And now That Marliese cant stand me- isn't this all for nothing anyway??
I thought he recently got a five year denial??? ( 2008)
How is he coming up again this soon anyway???
"The fact is- you are choosing one killer over another- probably because one was a cute guy- and the other was a cute girl..."
No, not a fact, more
like your opinion.
And it's my opinion
that your opinions are
becoming a bit irrational.
As I've explained, I'm
choosing, as you put it,
the 'cute guy'
because he wasn't convicted of
conspiracy to murder...
a concept you blew off with
irrelevant sexist nonsense.
"Because you seem hell bent against the Girls- and only an idiot would think any of them would do anything without the influence and approval of the men. Crazy Sadie- and Mother Mary didnt stab Gary did they? Sadie even had a gun... but your BOY BOBBY was the one who did the damage.... THOSE ARE FACTS
Are you screaming? And I
hope you're not implying
I'm an idiot.
And yes, you're
right about Sadie and a gun.
But please get it right.
She didn't have a gun...she
got a hold of the gun.
And my BOY BOBBY???? More
sexist nonsense.
Like I said, show me where
he was convicted of conspiracy
to murder and I might rethink
my opinion about parole.
But if you want to think it's
because he's "My Boy Bobby" and
"cute" go ahead.
I have supported
my opinions with facts without
resorting to irrational sarcasm
directed at you personally.
"Leslie Stabbed someone who was not awake. I used a reference once to poking a a dead animal on the side of the road. That is a crude, cold way to demonstrate it- but valid. There is not much reaction, and not much horror to deal with when she was in the midst of these actions-
close your eyes and thrust a few times with no reaction... its over."
Its validity is arguable...but since I already have, I won't.
It's not I can't stand you, and not I don't like you...it's that I don't understand your logic, I didn't understand it when you thought stealing research from regarded and respected people wasn't wrong, didn't understand how you could judge what Col chooses to write about on the blog...it's his blog, he can say whatever he feels like saying...we don't have to read it if we don't like it.
And I don't understand how anyone can say:
"I know that the words I used to describe what happened to Rosemarie at Leslie's hands was very cold- but we are adults and it was a long time ago, and it is hard to demonstrate a point verbally without taking some liberties... and it is accurate."
It may be 'accurate' for you, maybe painfully so, but it's disgustingly disrespectful of the dead to me. Rosemary LaBianca was not a beached whale, not roadkill to be poked at, and not a hunk of meat you stab at to see if its done or not.
See ya.
"show me where he was convicted of conspiracy to murder and I might rethink my opinion about parole.".
Bobby: "What do I do?"
CM: "You know what to do!"
It may be 'accurate' for you, maybe painfully so, but it's disgustingly disrespectful of the dead to me. Rosemary LaBianca was not a beached whale, not roadkill to be poked at, and not a hunk of meat you stab at to see if its done or not.
I think its more disrespectful to support the release of those who killed them-
No- I dont think your an idiot- and no I am not yelling- just trying to slowly and clearly emphasize to you- but it doesn't seem to be working so let me spell it out as if i were talking to a child and see if you can understand me now :)
I wrote the letter to the parole board being sarcastic. trying to be amusing.
I made the comparison to LULU as a joke so I could throw in the line that she was my favorite.
I think Bobby would make a decent parole candidate and would have no real problem if they let him go- I dont think he would be a danger to anyone. I think he was not the highest quality individual though- and acted very selfish in alot of ways. I dont get why Barbara would marry a person she never met until incarcerated- but that's not my problem. If they dig it- good for them...
Either way- it wont matter to me much- I just thought it would make a funny letter....
I am not sexist- I love sex . I would personally prefer that you root for the little boys and not the little girls- it would be weird the other way :) You can think I am not rational if you choose, and I can think your an ignorant moron if I choose- irrational or not- I get to have my opinion...
I really dont know if people are stealing ideas or pictures, or whatever. I just think if someone sees something that is interesting and they share it with other people who are all interested in the same thing- whats the problem?
Isn't that why we all come here? to see and learn new things? Does anyone have the right to say nobody else should see and read things about people none of us really knew? Pictures none of us really took, and articles none of us really wrote? aren't we all sharing?
Anyway- I already apologized about that....
How wrong do you want one guy to be??? lol
And NO - I dont think you are an ignorant moron- that was for effect!
I love your passion and your determination- but you need to learn when someone is not fighting back, and trying to lighten the situation.
I am not here to argue with you. Im not here to give opinions that seem logical to you...
I am here to say what I think, and that may not always make sense to you. It may be cold and disgusting to say that poking a dead animal with a stick and stabbing a dead human body with knife will provoke the exact same reaction in either case- BUT IT IS ACCURATE- they both do the exact same thingwhen struck - nothing. It is not for me to explain the logic of that to you...
And to tell me that is insensitive to say, but the person who actually did it has done there time and should go free... well if this is not insensitive...
Doesn't it have to be illogical?
LOL I'm lost.....
I disagree that it's "ACCURATE" St. Circumstance, I think the comparison is disgusting and inappropriate...just more desecration of Rosemary LaBianca.
I don't think my saying 41 years is enough for the murder of Gary Hinman is near as insensitive as speaking of Rosemary LaBianca...face down, cord around her neck, her nightgown jerked up over her hooded head, stabbed 40 some times, her torn up buttocks exposed...after being abused by the filth of Pat Krenwinkel and Leslie we just started cutting up the lady Van Houten...in the same sense as road kill, or a dead animal on the side of the road to be poked at.
Interesting how frequently people feel the key should be thrown away on Beausoleil, even after 41 or 45 years by the time of his next hearing, but Leslie's a whole other story...
And St. Circumstance, I'd appreciate if you wouldn't attack me personally. Our names aren't the subject of the blog, so please don't advise me on what I 'need to' do. And I'll do the same. Saying your opinions are sounding irrational was snippy and I apologize.
I am out of breath.
If after all I have written in the last three days- you took it as- I think they should throw away the Key on Bobby, and Leslie is a whole diff story-
I need to give back my communications degree....
I have not attacked you personally yet, but I am starting to consider it:)
Look I just don't have the heart to argue with you any more over this. You wore me out. I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone- so I wont make any more comments that might be offensive regarding the victims... I
Last thing on my mind was to be disrespectful of Rosemarie. Of all the victims- including her husband- she had the least skeletons in her life, and the made the most of herself with the least to start with. Truly and admirable lady. Which- I think I have pointed out in previous posts...
You aren't snippy - I don't feel snipped at :)
Lets just be friends.
I think, and I've said this before, that if the law sentenced you with the possibility of a parole, and that if you do everything in your power you can possibly do during your incarceration to earn that parole, then when your time comes, you should be paroled.
If you are not, then you are nothing more than a political prisoner, kept locked up just to make the rest of us feel better about your being punished.
Pritash- with the hope of not getting into more trouble- I will take a stab at this one too...
This goes for all of them- not any single one - male or female :)
Again- I have no problem if they decide to let Bobby out!!!
BUT if they dont... here might be a possible reason why :
He was ( all of them were) originally sentenced to death. When the law calling for that sentence was changed- they then commuted the sentence to the next harshest maximum sentence allowable by law which was a life sentence. This allows for the possibility for parole - but does not GUARANTEE it - under any circumstance. I have read many comments from several of them regarding " matrix" and "similar crimes"- but this was never - ever supposed to mean that " The law changed and now if you stay out of trouble and participate in positive groups you can mark a date on the calendar and start to look forward to release after x amount of time. It just never meant that... I think most of them thought it did, and when the shock of that reality started to set in- it really may have finally done the trick it was supposed to do in the first place.....
Hey - what I did was a big deal here, and they are really going to make me pay for this...
Bobby mentions on his website that " the carrot they dangle just doesn't look as tasty as it once did"....
What Carrot has anyone ever dangled? They never told them they were going anywhere. As soon as the law allowed for them to hold the hearings less frequently- that is what they did..
This was never a sentence of an open end. The intention was for him to die- and then to spend his life in prison. They used what law they had in there means to make them pay as harshly as they could. That was the intention.
Weather Bobby should be a part of them/they ( rest of family) is a totally separate debate...
If this is fair or not is another debate...
But I dont think there is any doubt that they were not interested in rehabilitating any of them, or measuring how fit they were to regain society- or even if they posed any danger or not.
It was to keep them locked up until they are gone- and Susan Atkins should be all the proof you need of this...
She wasn't going to hurt anyone or do anything- and nobody can argue with that...
So maybe he will go free, and maybe he should...
But nobody promised Bobby or any of the other ones anything. No deals were made, and the law does NOT say that they get to go after a certain amount of time..
So if they don't let him out- he really shouldn't blame anyone but the person who got him there in the first place...
If they do let him out- I hope he keeps all the promises he has been most likely making to Barbara- and that he goes off somewhere and plays his guitar under a tree with a nice glass of wine...
I do think if he does get out- that will mean he really earned it under these circumstances, and I will be the first to take my hat off to him!!
It's not about you. I was just saying...as in generally speaking, Bobby Beausoleil doesn't seem to have the support for parole that Leslie Van Houten has...Bobby Beausoleil is more generally seen as a cold blooded killer that can never be punished enough and Leslie Van Houten is the homecoming princess that got hooked up with the wrong people and was forced to take a few stabs at a lady that was after all probably already dead.
Well- I certainly can understand why you would think I feel that way- by the jokes I made and the fact I keep saying she is my favorite. Also I do have more contempt for the older guys than I do for the younger girls. I just think that older, stronger , more experienced people had more to do with influencing the others...
But- I don't think that is an excuse for any of them ,and I don't think they should be treated any worse, or be defended any more vigorously depending on what there status was among them. Crime is Crime- and they were all horrific.
All of there participation was wrong, and none of those people deserved to die.
Bobby makes just as good a candidate as Leslie does, and just as good as any of them does. If one is of the opinion that any of them should get a second chance- he is absolutely one of the First on the list if not THE first on the list of who deserves it based on what they have accomplished since 1969...
Im just not sure that any of this matters to the people who make the real decisions....
First, some cut and pastes:
But I dont think there is any doubt that they were not interested in rehabilitating any of them, or measuring how fit they were to regain society- or even if they posed any danger or not.
It was to keep them locked up until they are gone- and Susan Atkins should be all the proof you need of this...
She wasn't going to hurt anyone or do anything- and nobody can argue with that...
Bobby makes just as good a candidate as Leslie does, and just as good as any of them does. If one is of the opinion that any of them should get a second chance- he is absolutely one of the First on the list if not THE first on the list of who deserves it based on what they have accomplished since 1969...
Im just not sure that any of this matters to the people who make the real decisions....
EXACTLY! POLITICAL PRISONERS, nothing more.
We are a society that has moved from a justice system with a penal component which once believed in rehabilitation, but does not today but rather believes in vengeance. If the death penalty is a deterrent, which studies have proven it is, then make it the punishment for everything. Jaywalking! Guilty! The bailiff may fire at will!
And the hatred that people have, and they are so convinced that none of them have ever changed at all...I will tell you that yes, its a conveneient thing for Tex to now claim he has been born again, but again, I don't know him, so how do I really know he isn't? Same with the women and Bobby when it comes to the remorse they express. How can I possibly know it isn't genuine?
I was just talking to a young black man at a college the other day and he told me that the best person he has met so far was a former neo-nazi white supremacist who came to campus and spoke of how he changed his outlook. The kid was astounded, yes, but he was truly impressed. Change is good. Who says it can't happen.
And I'm sorry, but I am absolutely not afraid of any of these people if they were let out. I live near Squeaky and she hasn't bothered me yet. The only one I am truly scared of is Sandy, and she is out here already. Has been for a while.
If that is the way you want to put it- political prisoner..
I do agree they are not interested in rehabilitation. Not in these cases.
People can change and it can be good. But you do have to give some consideration to what motivation brought those changes on as well...
I would love to drink a beer with Squeaky. That would be a conversation I would pay to have...
Although....
In the case of Tex- I dont care if he really is remorseful. I dont care if he really did find religion. I dont care if god came down and pointed his finger at Tex and anointed him the chosen one...
He should never, ever walk among free people again... Anything I said about Barbara- you can double about the idiot who married this maniac.
This- I will never back away from!
Is that the hatred you were talking about ;)
Again- Tell me what I missed- I thought Bobby got a 5 year denial in 2008???
I don't think you missed anything. He was given a five year denial in 2008.
I see the title of the column "Godspeed Bummer Bob"...as an offer of good luck on the long journey of seeking parole.
I see....
So we get do this again in a few years?
:)
He should never, ever walk among free people again... Anything I said about Barbara- you can double about the idiot who married this maniac.
This- I will never back away from!
Is that the hatred you were talking about ;)
Yeah, I guess...they are political prisoners in this sense: If they were all released today, who would be in more danger, society, or they themselves from a society which has left them behind 40 plus years ago? What are the actual chances that they would harm anyone again? Probably nil, so why NOT release them? Hell, it will save a lot of money...BUT will any parole board have the gonads to actually do it? Doubtful, and even if they did would any Gov of California allow it? Doubtful again...why? Simply because of people like you who feel the way you do, and there are alot of them, and the politicians would be worried that you won't vote for them ever again.
Now, please get this, I am not arguing that you are wrong for feeling the way you do, but again it just illustrates that our justice system is based on punishment...punitive retribution, revenge, vengeance, whatever you wish to call it, and it looks like the idea of rehabilitation is gone forever. So no wonder we have such a large and costly prison system.
Pritash- We can have an honest disagreement here. I don't have a problem with a couple of them getting paroled, and I do have a problem with a few of them getting paroled ever....
But I just want to be clear that in the case of the ones I don't think should get paroled- it is not because I think they would be a danger- it is because I think that keeping them locked up is appropriate punishment for what they have done.
Does that puts me in the vengence group ??
I am not sure- to be honest- from the outside maybe you can see my thought process more accurately than I can. I am prejudice to my own opinions..
But Tex stabbed and killed several people- including a very pregnant woman. If he is legitimately rehabilitated, legitimately religious, and we had a iron clad guarantee we would never hear from him again- he has a price to pay to society, and to the families. And Society has a responsibility to tell everyone else that if you do anything like this- there will be a severe price to pay- so don't do it.
There are some actions/mistakes you can walk away from and find a way some day to atone for..
And there some lines in life which you just cant cross and expect to go back...
When you viciously kill strangers, and stab women who are about to have babies, and the write all over there houses in there blood..
It is hard for some people ( like me I guess) to forget...
Bobby may very well have gotten caught up in the hysteria of what people he associated with did. for this reason- he may be getting kept inside longer than someone else who did the same thing- due to his associations. In this aspect- he may very well being kept a prisoner due to the politics of the more well known murders in which he did NOT participate.
I could live with that interpretation...
But Tex and some of the others are doing the time they had coming to them- and they are lucky they are getting any time at all- because not for one lucky reprise in the form of a repealed and then reinstated law- They wouldn't be around to cause this discussion...
because not for one lucky reprise in the form of a repealed and then reinstated law- They wouldn't be around to cause this discussion...
EXCCTLY RIGHT! And I agree...but the system did waht it did and said what it did...the possibility of parole...and that is the incentive for rehabilitation.
SO I believe the system is flawed. As I said, if you are given the possibility of parole, and you do everything in your power to earn that parole, but then can never get paroled for whatever reason, then we really don't have a parole system at all.
I've said this before: I'm all for victims rights and such but because I believe in rehabilitation I think all the talking has to be done with the judge at the time of sentencing...and once sentenced then that is where you lay. 20 years or whatever goes by and you've been a model prisoner and have a good shot at getting paroled, and then Doris Tate shows up to say, "What mercy did you show my daughter?" I mean, who can resist Doris Tate? Anybody around that table gonna vote for parole? I don't think so, and I think that is inherently unfair.
You almost have me - we only differ on a couple of things. The system may very well be flawed- no argument there either.
But one word you cant under value-
POSSIBILITY of parole...
It wasnt meant to mean guarantee...
The sentence was death- then life in prison.
Never did anyone say 30, 40, or 50 years. They said LIFE.
You cant just assume that a possibility for parole- means that after any ammount of time- you go free....
what you are saying, and what I think they really believed is that-
Once the death penalty was revoked- they all got off the hook. Leslie told friends that due to a matrix- she would be out in 13 to 15 years. Tex has a future section on his webiste where he says he would like to go home to Texas to be with his family. Bobby has an essay complaining about the system, and why he has been held so long...
all of them probably felt that when the death penalty was waived- they had a good chance to get out someday, and now they are pissed because it hasn't happened. They played by the rules, and they have done alot of time,and learned alot of lessons- and did some good for others- and crossed every t and dotted every I- and watched people who did the same thing walk out a long time ago....
But as all of that may be true- I just cant muster any sympathy for them...
They killed people and then expected to be free, and now are screaming unfair because they aren't going to be...
I think a couple of them are probably much different people today for whatever reason...
I think it would be o.k. to let one or two of them out to spend there final days with people who have waited a long time to be with them. I would think a couple of them could live out there time in peace, and not bother anyone. I truely do.
But if none of them do- it wont be an injustice to me either. They made the beds they are lying in, and I dont want to hear from them they dont like the sheets...
Doris Tate had her daughter taken away from her. She had her granddaughter taken before she even got to hold her. she lost all of this to people who danced around after the fact, and laughed it off in front of the whole world.. She had to watch people who butchered her baby make a public joke out of it.
There is nothing that women could do to anyone involved that would be unfair in my opinion...
what a coincidence!!
Here is comments from a guy who tried to start writing to all the Manson family... he is going to visit Tex next month and they are in regular contact- he wrote with Sadie right up until her death... here is what he has to say on the subject...
When his suicide attempt failed, he searched for someone lower than he, someone perhaps who could uplift him somehow because maybe their circumstances would make his look not so pitiful.
He found the person in Charles “Tex” Watson.
Yes, that “Tex” Watson, member of the inglorious Manson Family, murderer of seven people in 1969.
“I was hoping I could find someone lower than I was,” Blankenship says. “Instead, I found someone happier than I was, who was in prison and spent the last 40 years there.”
Blankenship, 51, was a teenager when the Manson Family was making murderous mayhem across California. Like many at the time, he was glued to news of the killings, particularly of the pregnant actress Sharon Tate, who was killed alongside a coffee heiress, a Polish actor and a hairstylist to the stars.
Watson was considered by law enforcement officers to be Charles Manson’s right hand man, carrying out the killings on Manson’s orders.
“This was the crime of the century. Everyone knows about the Manson family,” Blankenship said.
Blankenship didn’t find a demon when Watson answered his first letter in February 2009. He found a weapon in the fight against his demons.
“I never dreamed it’d go this far. I didn’t realize he was going to find me so interesting. It was like meeting a celebrity,” he said.
Today, Watson is a born-again Christian. He runs a faith-based website called Abounding Love Ministries from prison. He was able to marry and father four children while incarcerated.
He exchanges letters with Blankenship monthly. The letters are mostly filled with uplifting, spiritual messages. Blankenship plans to visit Watson. He received permission in August and plans to travel to Mule Creek State Prison in Ione, Calif. in the next few months.
Watson isn’t his only prison pen pal.
When he embarked on his morbid quest, he sent letters to every member of the Manson family, including the group’s swastika-scarred psychopath leader, who didn’t reply. Susan Atkins, Robert Beausoleil, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel received letters, too. Susan Atkins wrote Blankenship back up until her death in September 2009.
One would think, perhaps, that Blankenship would become an apologist for the likes of Watson and the others. He says no, even admitting that some of the letters he’s received have asked him to write niceties about their authors to parole boards. He calls Watson a “weak-minded” individual.
“The only ones (Manson family members) who got back to me were born-again Christians. In some ways I have thought that,” Blankenship said, referring to requests to write to parole boards on behalf of Watson and the others. “Would they be this religious had they not gotten caught? Or would he (Watson) still be killing?”
Blankenship says he would never advocate releasing any of the inmates he corresponds with, especially Watson and the rest of the Manson Family members. But, he can’t deny the impact his communication with Watson has had on him; it’s what makes his story intriguing.
“I was so tired of drinking. And I couldn’t stop,” he says. “I can’t deny that he helped me.
“He gave me my smile back.”
Blankenship is two years sober now.
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