Following up on MOTIVE we move slightly off of Tex and we move on to SADIE.
Here are my current thoughts and ramblings about this bitch.
1- WHY in the name of God did Bugliosi use her in any capacity when the woman is clearly legally insane? He succeeded perhaps in permanently muddying the waters but seriously, did he have no ethics at all to repeatedly put a crazy person on the stand?
2- She thinks it actually matters who stabbed Sharon Tate. It doesn't- every one of those pukes that were there that day deserves to fry, including Linda. But she has changed her story so much it actually hurts my head. My instinct? I believe her grand jury testimony- it holds together the most.
3- Her motive- well she wanted to fit it. She liked the speed she was getting from Tex. Oh and she is fucking insane.
4- The Motive? To be honest, I don't think she knows. She was useful to Charlie because she was bugfuck nutso. But she was so wild and wooley that Tex didn't even take her the next day. She might have second hand information about motive, but I don't think she really knows why she threw her life away.
Thoughts? Disagree?
18 comments:
she was bugfuck nutso
Col, you surpassed yourself.
Just occurred to me: you read again and again about CM's 'followers' - that they were respectable, middle-class girls who were somehow led astray.
But were they? Maybe the Dianne Lakes of this world were/are, but I reckon the TLB players (Sadie, Katie and Leslie - and yes, Linda too) were pretty spaced out and fucked up ..
Sandy and Squeaky were way out of normal ..
Gypsy and Nancy too - and have you noticed thay all use that same way of speaking (guess they were all trying to copy Charlie?) First you struggle and then .. you struggle ..
in fact, far from being respectable and middle-class girls they were really something else ..
like bugfuck nutso ..
Frank
OK, so all three of these women peg the meter of the "creepy" scale, but IMO, Susan is by far the creepiest of the creepy. Even though Katie and, to a slightly lesser degree, Leslie, are murderous wenches, they at least can project a TV image of being a maternal sage looking back on the crazy days of '69. Sadie still comes off as pure evil, and to be honest, just all around makes my skin crawl.
Didn't she once claim that Gray Davis was holding her as a political prisoner??? No Sadie Mae...you drank Sharon's blood. Although Katie was arguably the most aggressive, it was Sadie who seemed to have the most pure unadulterated fun on Cielo Drive. Please, continue to rot in your cell, bitch.
Susan demonstrates insanity at it's finest..
=)
Great one Col !
I also do not think Susan, Leslie, Pat or Linda knew the true motive. I think they actually believed it was helter skelter or for the "cause".
I do think Tex knew/knows why.
I also think Charlie picked the one's he LIKED THE LEAST to commit the murders.
Tex - owed Charlie.
Susan - had worn herself out with Charlie. At this point, Sexy Sadie wasnt so sexy to Charlie and had become more annoying and a liability to him.
Yes, annoying enough to throw her to the wolves.
Leslie - I am under the impression that Leslie wasnt as close to Charlie as a Lynette or some of the others. As I understand it, Leslie was more less Bobby's girlfriend. I just don't think Charlie thought much of Leslie one way or the other and didn't care if she went down for murder.
Linda - According to Charlie, he barely knew her and I get the feeling he didnt really like her because she wasnt there long enough. It was late in the game when she arrived. I don't think he cared a thing about her, except (according to Charles) to get in her pants. Once that was done, she was expendable in his mind.
Pat - She is the only one that I am at a loss for as why Charlie picked her other than she was very loyal to him at that time and a couple of the other girls (correct me if I am wrong) were in jail at that time.
If or when they were caught, Charlie felt the "chosen one's" would take the fall and Charlie was SURE he would be able to steer clear of any implication.
Charlie might have thought if they get caught and one of them starts talking,(ie-Susan)the police would think the girls or Tex were crazy when they started that HS babble. And Charlie would just deny he even knew what they were talking about.
Charlie was convinced he had the PERFECT PLAN !
Also, did Pat misspell "helter skelter" on the fridge on purpose ?
Thanks !
FrankM said...
Sandy and Squeaky were way out of normal ..
There ya go again, Frank - judging your way around the puke block.
Sandy and Squeaky were actually pretty normal.
Were they trying to copy Charlie? Or did they simply tune in to the common sense and insight that he shared...and like all kids they began to excersize their personal free expression by emulating the first person to introduce them to such personal freedom?
There ya go again, Frank - judging your way around the puke block.
No idea what I've done to rattle your cage (again), Scramblehead, but let's just calm down shall we?
Most everything is up to a difference of opinion; and maybe you're right - maybe Sandy and Squeaky were just ordinary kids who got into a couple of scrapes. Maybe waving a firearm around in the face of the Leader of the Free World, or going on national TV threatening to let loose a wave of assassins to take out corporations that cause pollution are good, honest American activities, like white picket fences and Granma's apple pie.
Or maybe if you look at the gun toting, knife wielding wild-eyed, buckskin clad Sandy and Squeaky in Hendrickson's movie you might think there was something a tad out of the ordinary about these wholesome young girls.
More generally, Scramblehead, I invite you to consider that not everyone who fails to share your views is 'wrong', or judgmental, and that such people do not deserve your contempt and censure. I invite you to accept that what you see as CM's 'common sense and insight" others might see in a different light and even form an opinion that your own judgment - in the light of readily available supporting evidence to the contrary - might have been clouded by your belief ...
And finally I invite you to accept that there really is no need to lash out at anyone, whatever ideas and convictions they may hold.
Peace
Frank
Hmm, am noticing that we're all making numerous value judgements as to culpablity and who was responsible for what... moral qualifications... when I believe the good and wise Colonel is attempting to lead us to consider the motive behind the murders.
Yes indeedy, these two conditions should be examined separately.
Moral judgement: Tex was wrong to kill a nice pregnant actress.
Motive theory: Tex killed Ms. Tate because he thought her friend owed him money.
Brian...interesting, the idea that he picked the ones he liked the least. I never put that together.
I've always wondered, since Sandy and Mary B got themselves arrested that Friday afternoon and were in jail, if things might have been different had they been around that night. He wouldn't have chosen either of them, but maybe the frustration of their arrest was one more thing that added to the energy of that night. Anyway, your thought is interesting...he has said at times that he didn't know Leslie well, didn't get close to her, Sadie made him nuts, and Katie was loyal Katie. It never made sense about Linda going because she had a valid license...as if that mattered.
About Leslie and Bobby...isn't the 'she's bobby's girl' thing mostly wishful thinking on Leslie's part? By most accounts, he was with a lot of women, and she was just one of them. Wasn't he more involved with Kitty than Leslie?
I don't think Charlie clicked with Leslie because of who and what she was...her princess attitude, not because of anything having to do with Bobby, regardless of what Leslie says.
That's a lot of killing for 'your friend owes me money'...
Tex didn't kill Sharon because her friend owed him money, rather he killed her because she witnessed him killing her friend...a slight bit of difference, which even would have allowed Tex to show some mercy and flee with the others before killing an 8 months pregnant innocent woman. Of course, all this depends on a premise unproven: Did Voytek owe Tex money?
Even if Voytek did owe anyone money, wouldn't Abigail have given it to him? Or was she cutting him off? Perhaps that was why he was sleeping on the couch that night....
I'm in agreement with everything The Col says in this post (except for one minor detail about a certain someone frying which I won't go into because it's probably obvious). Susan was out of her mind, though, and probably did believe in the Helter Skelter stuff to some degree.
My problem with the Tex was owed money theory is that all he took was like $70 or so. There were valuables all over the house and in the cars that were left behind, weren't there? If this was about money, why just get revenge and not take some of what he was actually owed? Maybe they were so wound up by the frenzy of killing and the possibility of getting caught ("sadie, I hear people coming") that they weren't thinking straight enough to collect payment and therefore could only focus on "jamming" out of there.
also, yeah Susan's grand jury testimony is probably her most truthful account of the events, EXCEPT for the fact that she did leave some things out.
The only reason Bugliosi used her testimony at all was because she was the first to be interviewed and cut a deal. He had nothing else to go on and no other way to gain indictments. I don't think he was happy about it at all. That's why Linda seemed to him like a little ray of sunshine once Susan backed out.
Perhaps they collected drugs, and not money?
Interestingly enough in the paper article in the Los Angeles Times the 14 Decembre 1969 article writen by SA......... “Susan Atkins’ Story of 2 nights of murder” at Bret’s site in the Archives News...at the very begining she makes a lapsus... , she says....."That night Charlie instructed us to go to Sharon’s, we were still living up at Spahn Ranch..."
amazing !!!!!...CM knew very well where and why he was sending his “friends” he liked the least ... the ones he knew would not hesitate one second to obey him ...
Then she goes on to say that nobody knew who was living where TM used to live, but they knew TM was not living there anymore !!!....typical CM lies, he wanted STP to be killed because Charlie knew it would shock the world and make him a feared man forever...
Angelos,
I don't know...some of the others have said Sharon was not supposed to be there that night...and Melcher was living in Malibu, but the new HS movie even has CM visiting him there and even makes mention of the missing telescope, and VB produced that version too.
pristash, it's possible that they took drugs, but I doubt that for two reasons: none of the females have ever mentioned them taking drugs from the house, and they have no reason to hide that. Susan and Pat are quite open about the $70+ being taken. I don't see why they would leave out theft of drugs. Kasabian never mentioned seeing them return to the car with anything other than their clothing bundles, which they opened up and changed into in plain sight of her.
The other reason I doubt it is that they left drugs on the scene, untouched.
Hey, Monk,
True enough...true enough
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