...Truth has not special time of its own. Its hour is now — always and indeed then most truly when it seems unsuitable to actual circumstances. (Albert Schweitzer).....the truth about these murders has not been uncovered, but we believe the time for the truth is now. Join us, won't you?
Does anyone know when this interview with Johnny Echols took place? Pristash I agree,.. nothing more telling than as you said "disrespected by the guy in a group called LOVE". Excellent video..he saw it and got it. Which makes me more curious when this interview happened(hindsight thing).'Lil
Interesting too in that if he is right about BB being scared and wanting out, that something was indeed brewing, and I bet you it has more to do with Hinman, drugs and angry bikers than it does with the Beatles writing a song about a ride in an amusemnt park in jolly old England.
As you'uns may have noticed, Bret's site is back up and running. So, Colonel, you are saying that Jon AesNihil had something to do with it being knocked down?
To all Susan and my friends and family, February 1st, 2009
It has been another month and I have some unexpectedly good news. I told you all the doctors had stopped Susan's chemo back at the beginning of October. I only discovered this in December and was upset. But they explained they'd stopped the treatment because Susan's white blood count was dangerously low, and even after four months it had only come back up to what would be considered the lowest possible "acceptable" level. None the less Susan and I both asked the doctors to send her back to see the oncologist to see if (or when) they could restart the treatments.
Well, three days ago I received a call from Susan's primary physician at CCWF. He told me Susan had seen the oncologist this week but the oncologist had decided this was not a good time to restart therapy. I was discouraged, but before I could start arguing he explained that the reason the oncologist had decided against further chemo at this time was because they'd done several brain scans and they seemed to indicate the tumor was now "inactive." I wasn't sure what he meant and asked him to explain. "It isn't showing any activity," he tried again. "It isn't growing, it appears to be dead tissue."
I told him the hospital never told us this was a possibility, but he said sometimes it happens. He was quick to explain to me this didn't mean Susan was cured – the tumor can start growing again tomorrow or the next day or next week. And it is assumed it will start to grow again. But at this moment it has stopped.
I honestly found it hard to believe at first. I still find it hard to believe.
I was able to visit with Susan this weekend and I was able to explain it all to her. She smiled, and then she smiled some more, and then her eyes sparkled. It was pretty neat. I made sure she understood this didn't mean she was cured, but it was still pretty neat. I asked her if the ambulance trip out to the oncologist was traumatic and Susan said "not traumatic." I asked if it was a piece of cake and Susan nodded and announced "Piece of cake!" I told her I was very proud of her. I also told her I've never bet against her and I've never bet against God. And I remember ten months ago when the doctors at the hospital told me they didn't think she would survive the first 6 weeks, but apparently Susan and God had a different idea.
I was also told the prison has now employed a physical therapist full- time, so Susan will start to get physical therapy 5 days a week. That's also an answer to prayer. More physical movement means less muscle pain, better muscle tone throughout her body, less chance of bed sores, better digestion, and even the benefit of more social stimulation. I asked Susan if she was excited about this and she said quite clearly, "no." What followed was a 5 minute discussion of why this was so important for her health. At the end she agreed she would participate, but she seemed no more enthusiastic than before.
The last several weeks have been very good. Before being told of the inactivity of the tumor, it had occurred to me that after four months without any treatment at all it was amazing Susan was still alive, let alone still talking. And yet it seemed she hadn't deteriorated at all. Even though she speaks more haltingly, she is also speaking relatively spontaneously. She actually spoke several sentences together with me this morning when I first arrived. I have a habit of asking her how her arm is and how her leg is, and she normally simply says "yes" or "no," but today she suddenly announced, "it is alright." And when I asked if I could pull the chair up to the bed or if I should sit in the corner she laughed and said "sit in the corner!" And when I asked her who was in control of the TV she asserted "I am in control!" While these are small things, it is still pretty amazing. And she still communicates in other ways very well.
I am usually relatively guarded in my enthusiasm. Even this morning I told Susan we would continue to thank God for everything he's given us over the years, and thank him for every good day he gives us – no matter how many of those there are. But it is very unexpected, and I like to think it's a response to the prayers of all Susan's friends and family. Thank you to all of you. I may have said that in every single update I've sent out, but I want to assure you all that I meant it every single time I've said it, and I mean it now! God bless you all!
Sounds like Sadie is getting fairly decent medical care in prison. Good for her.
I'm still curious about the cell type of her tumor though, some are more aggressive and deadlier than others. I don't believe for a minute that any doctor thought she'd be dead last summer.
Thank you for the update Heaven, and Col thanks for the video, great info and history, and the frequent updates too.
Everyone in the music industry that has worked with "Bummer" Bob says he was or is a good musician.
As much as Bobby B loves music and as good as he is with it, I am surprised the music never totally took Bobby B over for him to actually join a band and as Johnny Echols said the whole thing probably wouldn't of happened. (Hinman)
Instead that "Manson character" totally took Bobby B over instead of the music.
Heaven, thank you for posting that Atkins update, although it makes me sick to read it, I still want to know.
I mean, here Atkins is fighting for her life, surrounded by prayer from her husband and others. Full time therapists, treatments, etc.
But all I can think of is Sharon Tate and her child...never having the chance to even fight. Makes me sick.
I think all treatment should be stopped for Susan and if the tumor starts to grow again, oh well, darn the luck. Let it grow and she must suffer until she dies.
It's cold and heartless but so was what she did to Sharon Tate and she has never truly paid for that to this day. IMHO.
Hey, all, I have a question perhaps one or more of you can answer: What was the deal with the Hostess Twinkie truck back in August of 1969? How did Charlie get it? Where did he drive it, etc?
hi, just wanted to say thanks for letting me join. I haven't posted here in a long time. Some of you might remember me, some not but either way it's good to be back and able to comment when i want to.
Wasn't the Hostess Twinkie truck the vehicle that Mary and Sandy drove to Sears (where they were arrested for using a stolen credit card) the afternoon of the Tate murders? I think I recall reading they were chased down by security in the store parking lot while driving the Twinkie Truck which they crashed. Then hauled off to jail so they could get a big surprise in the form of the newspaper the next day informing them of the murders.
Heaven, interesting topic...the ticket. We'll probably be hearing about the missing ticket alibi now.
Agnostic, didn't realize Sandy and Mary had driven the Twinkie Truck to Sears...thought I read, maybe in the Sanders book? that Charlie was greeted with the news that Sandra and Mary had been arrested at Sears when he returned to the ranch that Friday afternoon with Stephanie, presumably with the Twinkie Truck. If they had the Twinkie truck, what other vehicle would Charlie have been using on his trip up and down the coast with Stephanie?
Brian, agree with you, there is something sickening about that update, and all the thanks be to God for healing her is especially sickening...good grief, I guess God was busy on the nights of August 8th and 9th, 1969.
I wish Whitehouse had addressed the compassionate release in his update, how her ongoing improvements don't meet the criteria or substantiate his argument for her release, even though she was denied.
Hi Marliese it's funny because I think Sanders is what I was going on too. I thought Manson had already returned with Stephanie and was the one who sent Mary and Sandy to Sears to pick up some supplies and some food to cheer everyone up, because everyone was bummed out about Bobby's arrest. I don't have access to my copy of the book right now so I can't verify. You may very well be correct.
Welcome Andy, Sugar and Jim... Great to have you with us...
Hiya Monk and Marliese.. I hope you both are doing well!
You can read what Ed Sanders says about the truck, and the arrest of Sandra and Mary here
http://tinyurl.com/b4a85e
According to Ed, the girls were using the Twinkie truck when they got busted leaving Sears..
Other sources have said that Mary and Sandra had already been arrested before Manson arrived back at Spahn. So I guess it's really just a matter of picking which story to believe..
That link only takes you so far because the whole book isn't online, but the Twinkie truck may be more significant than it seems...So yes, anyway, some independent research has coincidentally led me to believe now more than ever that the LaBiancas were definitely a mob related hit. That's why I was asking.
You're right, Agnostic. In the Nuel Emmons book, and I'm not sure if that source is considered valid, there are references to "my truck" when Charlie is supposedly speaking about his trip with Stephanie. He goes on to say it was around noon when "I drove the truck into Spahn Ranch" and found everyone bummed about Bobby's arrest, so he told Squeaky to "pull out some credit cards and send someone to to town for gifts and trinkets" and Squeaky gave the cards to Mary and Sandy to go buy goodies. So if that version is correct, the truck was at the ranch and Mary and Sandy may have used it.
I said earlier that Charlie returned to find the girls arrested, and according to the Emmons version, that's not correct...he claims the call from Sandra about their arrest came around 10:00 p.m. that Friday night. "Squeaky took the call, relayed the bad news to me, she was upset, but I was in a rage."
Heaven, yeah, agree it is sometimes a matter of picking which version to believe.
I have the Sanders book and refer to it occasionally, but it gets me crazy because i don't like the way it's put together...the version I have is poorly edited, he doesn't always credit his sources, he mixes opinion and fact, there's no index, crummy pictures, etc etc. I know a lot of people consider it one of the better books, but just looking at it on the shelf gives me a headache, so I try not to reach for it. :)
One thing(among many)that has always stood out to me is Manson being at the Esalen Institute only a week or so before the murders and a phone call from the Polanski residence to the Esalen Institute only DAYS before the murders.
Hi Brian, I've read that too, but you know...I think it might just be coincidence. Esalen was a popular destination in those days, near Big Sur on Hwy One, and i don't think it's unusual that someone at the Cielo house may have called there. Charlie apparently was driving up and around the coast highway during that week just before the murders, and he may have helped himself to the beach near Esalen. Then again hasn't it be said that he went there and was asked to leave? I don't remember.
That's about the time he picked up Stephanie at a gas station somewhere along the coast hwy. I'd like to know exactly where that was...
i don't think it's too much to read into anything in this case. There are so many unanswered questions that only by following every lead/clue no matter how small it may seem, will eventually lead to answers.
Hey there Andy ! Yes, I so agree with you. Sometimes I think I over analyze but I think you are right, so many unanswered questions and oddities that all should be questioned.
Yes, isn't one theory that someone from Cielo (Abigail) called Esalen to speak with Manson? Or that they were seen together at Esalen earlier that week?
The ticket was for speeding and Charles had a suspended license. Or so I am told. Miraculously they let him go and did not impound the vehicle and take him to jail. Wonder if there was more than one citation? I was merely told it was a "bread truck, a delivery van like a UPS truck"... had somehow thought the Twinkie truck was stolen?
Hello Andy, Hello SBSugar! And great to see you, Shak El!
Just got off the phone -- was told that Charles has an interview in "The Horse" magazine this month. 4 pages, reasonably favorable. The motorcycle one, not the equine one.
43 comments:
Poor Sadie, considered a skank and disrespected by the guy in a group called LOVE, of all things!
Does anyone know when this interview with Johnny Echols took place? Pristash I agree,.. nothing more telling than as you said "disrespected by the guy in a group called LOVE". Excellent video..he saw it and got it. Which makes me more curious when this interview happened(hindsight thing).'Lil
2006ish
Interesting too in that if he is right about BB being scared and wanting out, that something was indeed brewing, and I bet you it has more to do with Hinman, drugs and angry bikers than it does with the Beatles writing a song about a ride in an amusemnt park in jolly old England.
Hey,
What happened to Bret's site?Hope it is nothing serious.
Aesnihil
Susan being skinny and cadavorous sounds to me like classic symptoms of methamphetamine addiction.
Sorry for the delete..
Anyone interested in seeing the newest update from Susan's husband?
Heaven: Sure.
As you'uns may have noticed, Bret's site is back up and running. So, Colonel, you are saying that Jon AesNihil had something to do with it being knocked down?
Ok, here you go...
To all Susan and my friends and
family,
February 1st, 2009
It has been another month and I have some unexpectedly good news. I
told you all the doctors had stopped Susan's chemo back at the
beginning of October. I only discovered this in December and was
upset. But they explained they'd stopped the treatment because
Susan's white blood count was dangerously low, and even after four
months it had only come back up to what would be considered the
lowest possible "acceptable" level. None the less Susan and I both
asked the doctors to send her back to see the oncologist to see if
(or when) they could restart the treatments.
Well, three days ago I received a call from Susan's primary physician
at CCWF. He told me Susan had seen the oncologist this week but the
oncologist had decided this was not a good time to restart therapy. I
was discouraged, but before I could start arguing he explained that
the reason the oncologist had decided against further chemo at this
time was because they'd done several brain scans and they seemed to
indicate the tumor was now "inactive." I wasn't sure what he meant
and asked him to explain. "It isn't showing any activity," he tried
again. "It isn't growing, it appears to be dead tissue."
I told him the hospital never told us this was a possibility, but he
said sometimes it happens. He was quick to explain to me this didn't
mean Susan was cured – the tumor can start growing again tomorrow or
the next day or next week. And it is assumed it will start to grow
again. But at this moment it has stopped.
I honestly found it hard to believe at first. I still find it hard to
believe.
I was able to visit with Susan this weekend and I was able to explain
it all to her. She smiled, and then she smiled some more, and then
her eyes sparkled. It was pretty neat. I made sure she understood
this didn't mean she was cured, but it was still pretty neat. I asked
her if the ambulance trip out to the oncologist was traumatic and
Susan said "not traumatic." I asked if it was a piece of cake and
Susan nodded and announced "Piece of cake!" I told her I was very
proud of her. I also told her I've never bet against her and I've
never bet against God. And I remember ten months ago when the doctors
at the hospital told me they didn't think she would survive the first
6 weeks, but apparently Susan and God had a different idea.
I was also told the prison has now employed a physical therapist full-
time, so Susan will start to get physical therapy 5 days a week.
That's also an answer to prayer. More physical movement means less
muscle pain, better muscle tone throughout her body, less chance of
bed sores, better digestion, and even the benefit of more social
stimulation. I asked Susan if she was excited about this and she said
quite clearly, "no." What followed was a 5 minute discussion of why
this was so important for her health. At the end she agreed she would
participate, but she seemed no more enthusiastic than before.
The last several weeks have been very good. Before being told of the
inactivity of the tumor, it had occurred to me that after four months
without any treatment at all it was amazing Susan was still alive,
let alone still talking. And yet it seemed she hadn't deteriorated at
all. Even though she speaks more haltingly, she is also speaking
relatively spontaneously. She actually spoke several sentences
together with me this morning when I first arrived. I have a habit of
asking her how her arm is and how her leg is, and she normally simply
says "yes" or "no," but today she suddenly announced, "it is
alright." And when I asked if I could pull the chair up to the bed or
if I should sit in the corner she laughed and said "sit in the
corner!" And when I asked her who was in control of the TV she
asserted "I am in control!" While these are small things, it is still
pretty amazing. And she still communicates in other ways very well.
I am usually relatively guarded in my enthusiasm. Even this morning I
told Susan we would continue to thank God for everything he's given
us over the years, and thank him for every good day he gives us – no
matter how many of those there are. But it is very unexpected, and I
like to think it's a response to the prayers of all Susan's friends
and family. Thank you to all of you. I may have said that in every
single update I've sent out, but I want to assure you all that I
meant it every single time I've said it, and I mean it now! God bless
you all!
James
It's a MIRACLE!
Sounds like Sadie is getting fairly decent medical care in prison. Good for her.
I'm still curious about the cell type of her tumor though, some are more aggressive and deadlier than others. I don't believe for a minute that any doctor thought she'd be dead last summer.
Thank you for the update Heaven, and Col thanks for the video, great info and history, and the frequent updates too.
Col, thanks for the Love post.
Everyone in the music industry that has worked with "Bummer" Bob says he was or is a good musician.
As much as Bobby B loves music and as good as he is with it, I am surprised the music never totally took Bobby B over for him to actually join a band and as Johnny Echols said the whole thing probably wouldn't of happened. (Hinman)
Instead that "Manson character" totally took Bobby B over instead of the music.
Heaven, thank you for posting that Atkins update, although it makes me sick to read it, I still want to know.
I mean, here Atkins is fighting for her life, surrounded by prayer from her husband and others. Full time therapists, treatments, etc.
But all I can think of is Sharon Tate and her child...never having the chance to even fight. Makes me sick.
I think all treatment should be stopped for Susan and if the tumor starts to grow again, oh well, darn the luck. Let it grow and she must suffer until she dies.
It's cold and heartless but so was what she did to Sharon Tate and she has never truly paid for that to this day. IMHO.
Awesome post Thank You Col
Hey, all, I have a question perhaps one or more of you can answer: What was the deal with the Hostess Twinkie truck back in August of 1969? How did Charlie get it? Where did he drive it, etc?
Thanks.
Pristash, according to Ed Sanders, Danny DeCarlo bought the 1952 Hostess Twinkie truck from a guy named Dave Lipsett...
Manson took it to the Esalen Institute the week before the murders..
You can read about it here
http://tinyurl.com/bxrjha
=)
Thanks, Heaven,
Do you know if he brought the truck back from Esalen? Did he get the traffic ticket in the truck? Was Schram with him at the time?
The link only goes so far, and I let someone borrow my copy of Sanders.
Thanks!
Sorry for the delete, typos!
Yup Manson showed back up with the Twinkie truck and Schram at Spahn the morning of the Tate murders..
Yes he did get a speeding ticket while driving it..
I wonder whatever became of the truck...
=)
I need to correct myself, it wasn't a speeding ticket Manson received.. It was a citation for driving without a license..
Sorry bout that..
=)
hi, just wanted to say thanks for letting me join. I haven't posted here in a long time. Some of you might remember me, some not but either way it's good to be back and able to comment when i want to.
I'm a big fan of Love...I wonder why the interviewer didn't ask about Bobby allegedly being the inspiration for the name "Love" A very cool clip!
new people! exciting. welcome
Wasn't the Hostess Twinkie truck the vehicle that Mary and Sandy drove to Sears (where they were arrested for using a stolen credit card) the afternoon of the Tate murders? I think I recall reading they were chased down by security in the store parking lot while driving the Twinkie Truck which they crashed. Then hauled off to jail so they could get a big surprise in the form of the newspaper the next day informing them of the murders.
Andy and Sugar, nice to have you.
Heaven, interesting topic...the ticket. We'll probably be hearing about the missing ticket alibi now.
Agnostic, didn't realize Sandy and Mary had driven the Twinkie Truck to Sears...thought I read, maybe in the Sanders book? that Charlie was greeted with the news that Sandra and Mary had been arrested at Sears when he returned to the ranch that Friday afternoon with Stephanie, presumably with the Twinkie Truck. If they had the Twinkie truck, what other vehicle would Charlie have been using on his trip up and down the coast with Stephanie?
Brian, agree with you, there is something sickening about that update, and all the thanks be to God for healing her is especially sickening...good grief, I guess God was busy on the nights of August 8th and 9th, 1969.
I wish Whitehouse had addressed the compassionate release in his update, how her ongoing improvements don't meet the criteria or substantiate his argument for her release, even though she was denied.
Hi Marliese it's funny because I think Sanders is what I was going on too. I thought Manson had already returned with Stephanie and was the one who sent Mary and Sandy to Sears to pick up some supplies and some food to cheer everyone up, because everyone was bummed out about Bobby's arrest. I don't have access to my copy of the book right now so I can't verify. You may very well be correct.
Greetings all, and thanks for the invite.
Have been a reader of this blog for over a year and active on several related e-lists.
jim davis
Welcome Andy, Sugar and Jim... Great to have you with us...
Hiya Monk and Marliese.. I hope you both are doing well!
You can read what Ed Sanders says about the truck, and the arrest of Sandra and Mary here
http://tinyurl.com/b4a85e
According to Ed, the girls were using the Twinkie truck when they got busted leaving Sears..
Other sources have said that Mary and Sandra had already been arrested before Manson arrived back at Spahn. So I guess it's really just a matter of picking which story to believe..
=)
That link only takes you so far because the whole book isn't online, but the Twinkie truck may be more significant than it seems...So yes, anyway, some independent research has coincidentally led me to believe now more than ever that the LaBiancas were definitely a mob related hit. That's why I was asking.
You're right, Agnostic. In the Nuel Emmons book, and I'm not sure if that source is considered valid, there are references to "my truck" when Charlie is supposedly speaking about his trip with Stephanie. He goes on to say it was around noon when "I drove the truck into Spahn Ranch" and found everyone bummed about Bobby's arrest, so he told Squeaky to "pull out some credit cards and send someone to to town for gifts and trinkets" and Squeaky gave the cards to Mary and Sandy to go buy goodies. So if that version is correct, the truck was at the ranch and Mary and Sandy may have used it.
I said earlier that Charlie returned to find the girls arrested, and according to the Emmons version, that's not correct...he claims the call from Sandra about their arrest came around 10:00 p.m. that Friday night. "Squeaky took the call, relayed the bad news to me, she was upset, but I was in a rage."
I'm sorry that I mixed it all up earlier.
Heaven, yeah, agree it is sometimes a matter of picking which version to believe.
I have the Sanders book and refer to it occasionally, but it gets me crazy because i don't like the way it's put together...the version I have is poorly edited, he doesn't always credit his sources, he mixes opinion and fact, there's no index, crummy pictures, etc etc.
I know a lot of people consider it one of the better books, but just looking at it on the shelf gives me a headache, so I try not to reach for it. :)
Great posts everyone !
One thing(among many)that has always stood out to me is Manson being at the Esalen Institute only a week or so before the murders and a phone call from the Polanski residence to the Esalen Institute only DAYS before the murders.
Am I reading too much into this ?
Hi Brian, I've read that too, but you know...I think it might just be coincidence. Esalen was a popular destination in those days, near Big Sur on Hwy One, and i don't think it's unusual that someone at the Cielo house may have called there. Charlie apparently was driving up and around the coast highway during that week just before the murders, and he may have helped himself to the beach near Esalen. Then again hasn't it be said that he went there and was asked to leave? I don't remember.
That's about the time he picked up Stephanie at a gas station somewhere along the coast hwy.
I'd like to know exactly where that was...
i don't think it's too much to read into anything in this case. There are so many unanswered questions that only by following every lead/clue no matter how small it may seem, will eventually lead to answers.
Hey there Marliese !
Thank you for that reply...very interesting.
Hey there Andy ! Yes, I so agree with you. Sometimes I think I over analyze but I think you are right, so many unanswered questions and oddities that all should be questioned.
Yes, isn't one theory that someone from Cielo (Abigail) called Esalen to speak with Manson? Or that they were seen together at Esalen earlier that week?
The ticket was for speeding and Charles had a suspended license. Or so I am told. Miraculously they let him go and did not impound the vehicle and take him to jail. Wonder if there was more than one citation? I was merely told it was a "bread truck, a delivery van like a UPS truck"... had somehow thought the Twinkie truck was stolen?
Hello Andy, Hello SBSugar! And great to see you, Shak El!
Just got off the phone -- was told that Charles has an interview in "The Horse" magazine this month. 4 pages, reasonably favorable. The motorcycle one, not the equine one.
http://www.thehorsebc.com/
AWESOME! blog Andy.
Thanks very much for the warm welcome, everyone!
Has anyone here seen either of the "Manson Gang" dvds? Just wondering if either were worth picking up.
Thanks!
Is charlie getting depressed again?rumours fly so i was just asking if this is true
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