Monday, January 09, 2006

More On the Nimrods












In the comments section we get a great story I wanted to bump up front for future reference.
I colored RED things to pay close attention to, and asterixed my replies....

1965opinion said...

Here's my take on the 'Debra situation'. I've heard all the stories over the years and if I had one or two concerns it would be one, heavy handedness over some groups(KTS) and various fan boards. Two, sitting and waiting... to see if, through CMG the plans for Sharon materialize.*

If I were Debra I would be building bridges with an active boards/groups. Every member is a potential parole letter writer, and also a voter. Patti seemed, from what I've read, to work well in role of diplomat. *

The whole 'oogler' situation was explained as editing by the TV production crew. Debra too was horrified by the way it came out/across. Both Robin Olsen(love her or hate her)and Sharon's cousin Pam Turner explained this to various boards, groups.

As far as making money on Sharon's image I hope Debra makes millions. Why shouldn't the Tate family make money? Nobody questions the Presleys or the heirs to the Monroe estate?(A drug overdose and a sucide/murder?)* But everything do with Sharon is 2nd guessed. Except of course when alternative rock stars want to call themselves by the name of the man her arrainged her murder. *

Who knows why Debra chose not to be publicly active during the years prior to the death of her mother and sister? It took Doris ten years to complete her mourning and become and activist. Maybe it took Debra longer?* I can't imagine if I was 16 I'd recover from a shock like the murder of a sibling in even 20 years. Let alone face the public with a crusade for justice?

And yes calling yourself 'The Big Oogler', especially when the situation had been explained IS cruel.

Everyone wants Debra to be active in ways like her mother and sister but why should she want to reach out to various boards/groups? You treat her like shit.*

*- but to clarify, Debra doesn't owe anyone shit. The mistake she made with KTS et al was trying to exert legal authority over pictures she doesn't own and throwing her weight around with the Yahoo wimps. BUT BUT BUT she is the victim here, not the KTS people and is allowed to do what she wants concerning her family. If she overextends her legal rights the KTS people can agree to respect her or not, but this gives them no right to criticize.

*- but again, she has no obligation to reach out. She doesn't even HAVE to show up for parole hearings- if Bobby didn't get out the others aren't. What she does is her business.

*- or James Dean which CMG controls- a car crash

*- sorry, Charlie did NOT arrange her murder in my book. And I know Marilyn Manson well and he is free to call himself anything he likes.

*- and in any case, she is under no obligation to explain herself to KTS freaks or anyone.

*-and even if they treated her well, why bother anyway? The Col with his superior knowledge was banned from KTS for example something like thirty times.

All this proves my point- shame on the Oogler and ANYONE who converses with such a loser toad.

143 comments:

shelby445 said...

steve doesn't have to respect debra any more then you have to respect steve. debra isn't a victim, she's not listed as a victim. she's listed as a victims next of kin. sharon was a victim. im sure she has had a tough life but she has thrust herself in among the fans and with that comes opinions. good and bad. not everyone is going to trip over themselves when she speaks just because she was sharons sister. for myself i think what she has done in regards to keeping the killers in prison is great. i don't like her or dislike her because i don't know her. but i have been in enough groups and discussions to know that some people like her and some don't. i doubt she's losing any sleep over it.

ColScott said...

I believe in the greater scheme of things everyone affected by a crime is usually called a victim. That is how Voytek's son can claim "victim compensation" from the court. So yes, by most definitions including legal, she is a victim. It is only as a victim that she is allowed to speak at parole hearings.

I don't respect Steve because he is not funny.

Steve DOES have to respect Debra if he is part of a group that "honors the victims".

I have seen people appear on the group slagging off, say, Karen Montecillo, a very distant victim and they are banned immediately. Why is OOGLER allowed to continue?

1965opinion said...

Excellent points Col Scott. You know your stuff. Normally I do not participate(post no/read yes) on board forums but chose to let some of my feelings out about this subject. I appreciate your opinions on my posting and it helps me and hopefully others have a more rational, clear picture of the situation.

But please don't use yellow as it's hard to read. :)

shelby445 said...

you'd have to ask heaven or denise about karen. but it is to my understanding that she left the group on her own. because of you.
i do not think she was ever banned. but if you like i can ask heaven for you.

ColScott said...

shelby
please read my post where it says that people who mock her are banned
I never said she was banned
and why blame me
you know I had NOTHING to do with her leaving

shelby445 said...

again im not positive of anything. you'd have to ask heaven or denise.

shelby445 said...

i have im'ed heaven and she told me to tell you to check your email.

ColScott said...

I did there is a letter from Denise asking me a question about Nelson.

Point?

shelby445 said...

just telling you what she said

foraplex sucks said...
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Mussenden said...

Whoa....Debra's a cokehead?? I had no idea! That explains a lot of things.

Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

Hmmm....I wonder if this is one of the reasons why Debra and Patti did not get along...apparently there was a rift between them...maybe Patti didn't agree with her lifestyle...?

ColScott said...

I guess no one cares about my point which is I feel bad for Debra.

Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

Debra is a Bad Seed, no doubt.

Patti was so gracious and such a classy lady....I'm sure she knew a bad egg when she smelled one...no wonder she wanted nothing to do with her sister.

Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

It seems like a lot of people are on to Debra Tate and her bullshit.

I wish Patti was still around. :(

Bruce Hall said...
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Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

Debra looks like a lush to me. A big fat sloppy drunk. I bet she spends all her welfare money on booze and coke.

shelby445 said...

see col i told you that some people do not care for debra. its not just steve or some members of kts. just because she happened to be the sister of sharon tate doesn't make her some royal queen that we must all bow down to. debra is not a victim of charles manson. no member of charlies family ever touched debra. i'm not saying that debras life hasnt been changed by them. of course it has. losing her sister at such a young age had to be very hard on her and her family. but she is not listed as a victim. only as a next of kin. everyone loved patti. why? because she never, not once did she ever dis sharons fans. she never paid any attention to them at all. debra is always making some rude nasty remark about the fans then begs us to write our letters to the parole board. it is as a victims next of kin that she is allowed to speak at parole hearings. go look at the hearing transcripts. they all say debra tate - victim's next of kin. also listed of victims next of kin are ANTHONY DIMARIA,MARGARET DIMARIA,MARIE FORD,JOHN DESANTIS,ANGELA CORINNE SMALDINO,LOUIS SMALDINO. debra has no ties to the labiancas but she goes to the parole hearings as a victims next of kin support. so does jays nephew.
to those of you wondering about her coke habit. talk to paige. she seems to be the expert on debra. i have also heard rumors that debra is suing lisa (patti's friend) over some of sharons personal belongings that patti had when she died. lisa is holding on to them for pattis kids. i guess pattis children aren't allowed to have anything that belonged to their aunt. only debra is allowed to own sharons things. i also heard that the house that col tate and doris owned, they left to patti and not debra. makes you wonder if maybe debras family had problems with her.

1965opinion said...

I am shocked to hear what you guys are saying but would want have proof to back up this up. And if this is true it still does not in my mind make Debra a bad person. A human being with problems but in no way a bad person. Not one of us here can lay claim perfection nor can anyone say they really know Debra since, with the exception of one or two 'fans' that know her. Who have always to the best of my knowledge graciously been careful to make sure the line of her privacy is not crossed.

Paige who runs the Official board has always been a professional when it comes to moderating the board for Debra. On more than one ocassion I have caught others in lies twisting or plain making up what Paige had said. I don't for a minute believe she would be telling anyone even if any of this was true.

So what I'm hearing is not fact but gossip.

I agree that due to the murder of her sister Debra IS a victim to this unfortunate situation. And has every right to crusade for justice.

shelby445 said...

like the old saying, opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
no one is saying that debra shouldnt seek justice and no one is stopping her from doing so.

Mussenden said...

It all makes perfect sense to me. No wonder Patti's live-in friend took custody of her kids after she died...I'm sure Patti did not want her coked up whore of a sister taking care of her kids.

Mussenden said...

Just because she happened to be the sister of sharon tate doesn't make her some royal queen that we must all bow down to.

Amen to that. From everything I've seen so far, Debra Tate is pure trash that just so happened to be Sharon's sister. She deserves what she gets. I'm not going to worship the ground she walks on.

GLH said...

Wow. I didn't know so many people hate Debra so much. In the end, what does it matter what she does with her life? I've never heard anything about drug/alcohol abuse by Debra. Even if it is true, why does that matter? If she is abusing drugs, at least she hasn't let it take over and keep her from functioning and doing what she feels necessary with regard to the victims. Give her a break.

shelby445 said...

i dont hate debra. i just dont really care for her.

Bruce Hall said...
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GLH said...

Anton, If you say so. I have just never heard of any drug addiction. I know that, when I lost someone close to me at the hand of someone else, I could have easily drank myself into oblivion. Lucky for me alcohol doesn't work for me. But, if she is on drugs, she has more in common with the killers and is an even better opponent for their parole. She can sit there and tell them that at least she hasn't let drugs lead her to murdering innocent people.

shelby445 said...

ive heard of her being involved with drugs. its not a very well kept secret.

GLH said...

And here I thought coke made you lose weight. Guess I'll have to figure out another way to lose weight after all....

Bruce Hall said...
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Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

I wonder if Debra was high on cocaine when she showed her hairy snatch to the world? She sure didn't mind "ooglers" then, did she?

Bruce Hall said...
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GLH said...

Even if you think Debra isn't as attractive as her sisters were, that is no reason to bring it up. After all, what difference does it make? Sharon was her sister, and she is doing what she believes in with regard to the killers and their parole. While I don't agree that she should be allowed to attend the LaBianca hearings(since she was not related to them), it isn't because she's Debra Tate. I just think that they should only allow the relatives of the victims attend.

Back to Debra, though. Why are you so hard on her. That woman has been through more hell than most of us will ever be able to imagine, and just because she appeared not to get along with her family doesn't mean it was all her fault. There are always two sides to every story, and she just chooses not to air out her private life to everyone. Why should she?

As for any drug addiction, she has obviously done well with that. She's in her 50's now, and I think she looks darn good for anyone who has been through the terrible things she has had to deal with and continuously is forced to face each day. It's a wonder she is still able to get out of bed each day.

Everything she says or does is met with opposition. Put yourself in her place. How would you react? Maybe she has said or done a few things that others, even myself, may find offensive. But it's her life. Sharon was her sister. She's all that's left of that family, other than her sister's children and her own children.

On top of all that, she has to put up with people making jokes and rude comments about her weight or that she doesn't look as good as her sisters. What gives? How would you like to have grown up with that and still face it each day? Life isn't fair, but people can be much more cruel.

And as someone posted earlier, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

Denise said...

I haven't read through all of these but let me say that I don't recall banning anyone for badmouthing Karen. I do suffer from CRS occasionally but this doesn't at all sound familiar to me. Who got banned?

About Debra Tate being a cokehead. Cokeheads balloon up?? What?? If anything they get sucked up and look like a skeleton. Now aging isn't a kind process but I think personally speaking, I'll be happy to look like Debra at her age. If she does have addiction problems, I wish her all the best with them, as it is a disease, not a morality problem. Some of the nicest people I know have addiction problems and if you've never walked in those shoes, good for you. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

As far as people degrading someone's looks, well it takes a really small person to do that, and once you stoop to that level, your credibility goes out the window. IMHO.

Denise said...

One more comment on this thread. Debra didn't come after KTS. It was RTV (Remember The Victims) that she had shut down because it displayed the death photos. I can totally understand her feelings on that particular issue, and KTS doesn't display any death photos. Debra knows about KTS and is fine with that. She also knows that not everyone likes her, and she doesn't lose any sleep over it I'm sure. She's not out to win approval, or gain popularity. She just lives her life.

Denise said...
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shelby445 said...

i dont have a problem with debras looks her body or her drug addiction. its her snide remarks about sharons fans that bother me. who is she to call anyone "a little off" or that if you've seen the death pictures that you're "oogling" over them. i think the pictures serve as a reminder that horrible people exist in this world. if it wasn't for those pictures i wouldn't be writing the parole letters she begs for. hearing about things and actually seeing the results are two different things. debra should be thankful sharon has the fan base that she does. without us no one would be spending the insanely high prices shes asking for on very small pictures of sharon. it isn't about hating debra as a person for me anyway. its about not liking what some of the things she says. maybe she has a right to say them but i have a right not to like them. maybe she should follow patti's example. worry about keeping her sisters killers in prison and less about what the fans are doing.

ColScott said...

the hate is surprising me... oh well...

Denise said...

Everyone has a right to like or dislike something that is said by someone. I see nothing wrong with that. It's the hatefulness that is unproductive. (not you Shelby, you are quite straight with your posts, and not the least bit hateful)

Denise

Heaven said...

Well here I am, posting on Col Scotts blog lol
Yes, I'm the elusive Heaven you've heard tell about LOL

First time for everything huh? lol

Ok, I'm here because there is so much hatred towards Debra that I felt I needed to chime in, for whatever it may be worth.

No one can really form an opinion about Debra as a person because none of us know her. People are different when in front of a camera then they are in private. I don't know Debra, but I can only assume that she does appreciate Sharon's fans. She probably made the comments that she did from all the psycho's she's had to deal with since her sister's death.

I admire Debra's strength and courage for going to each and every parole hearing, even the ones she doesn't have to go to (IE the LaBianca's). She could easily skip it and let they families handle it. But for moral support, she goes. That, in my opinion, is very commendable.

I am not a fan of Debra's and sometimes I don't like some of the things she does and says. For instance, she sells Sharon's pictures on her site. I know because I bought two of them. They were quite small and very overpriced, the shipping was high and took forever for them to arrive. But yet, Debra is trying to put a stop to anyone selling pictures of Sharon on Ebay. I'd hate to see that happen, there are a lot of really awesome Sharon pictures on Ebay that I'd love to have for my collection. Why is Debra threatened by anyone selling them there? They're not the same ones as she's selling. I bought them from Debra's site because I thought I was making a contribution to Sharon's star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. To be honest, if I had know the money was going up Debra's nose, I wouldn't have bought them from her site.

But, I don't know for a fact that she spent it on coke, so I just keep assuming it's going towards Sharon's star.
What I'd like to see Debra put a stop to is the sale of the obvious fake things that people are selling and claiming they belonged to Sharon. IE clothes, jewelry, cosmetics. Things we damn well know did not belong to Sharon.

I'll be honest, it bothers me that Debra is selling Sharon. If the money is really going towards the star, that's fine, she's raising money to do something good in Sharon's memory. If she's just lining her pockets, then it bothers me. I won't apologize for that because it IS how I feel. Maybe some people feel it's ok for her to be doing it, that's fine too cause that would be your opinion. I didn't particularly like being referred too as "a little off" either, or that I'm an "oogler".. But I think she was more referring to the weirdo's she encounters rather than the true Sharon fans.

Now, speaking from someone who once had a serious coke addiction, I can tell you that it makes you skinny, not overweight. It works as hunger suppressant, in other words, you don't want to eat, you're not hungry. It also makes you very active, it speeds up your system so you have trouble sitting still. So if Debra had a coke problem, she'd be thin as a rail.

I have never heard of her having a drug problem, but hey, it wouldn't be on the news anyway. If it is true, I hope she's getting the help she needs because quitting is very difficult. I know cause I did it.

Debra has suffered the loss of her entire family. For that, my heart does go out to her. None of us are perfect, the only difference is, we don't live under the media glare. We don't have people watching our every move, waiting for us to screw up so someone can alert the National Enquirer.

Debra is Debra, she isn't Doris and she isn't Patti. It isn't fair for anyone to expect her to be.
I don't agree with everything she does, and sometimes I downright dislike some of the things she does. But like Denise said, she's not out to win any popularity contests.

Ok, I babbled long enough.
I hope at least some of what I said made sense lol

=)

ColScott said...

Welcome Heaven
It did all make sense and I agree with 98% of it.
Of course she is allowed to profit by something she owns (Sharon's image) but she should not block shit she doesn't have a right to. If she doesn't own the ebay photos she should shut the hell up.
Thanks for your great post.

I just had no idea what I was starting. Wow.

Heaven said...

You're right, she does own Sharon's pictures and does have the legal right. I was more thinking of the moral right.

If Sharon was my sister, I'd never try to cash in on her, unless it was for something to be done in her memory. But that's me and I can't expect Debra to do things my way. She does own the images and can do what she likes with them...

But ooo, it's hard not to let it bug me LOL

Denise said...

LMAO, Dawg, you got sucked into the Colonel's blog. Did hell freeze over LOL.

Bravo!

ColScott said...

It is not just my blog, every one is free to do what they want to do, with no Jimmy Nelson posts anywhere!

Heaven said...

LOL

I have been drawn into the Col's circle of love lol

=)

salome said...

From Shelby's previous post: debra has no ties to the labiancas but she goes to the parole hearings as a victims next of kin support.

She is not allowed to address the parole board as a support to the next of kin. If the Labiancas want her there, then that is what matters and their choice. Maybe, she is a comfort since she understands their grief and frustation.

Mussenden said...

Debra is trying to put a stop to anyone selling pictures of Sharon on Ebay.

Debra is a complete moron if she thinks she has any control over what people sell on Ebay. If she doesn't own the copyright to the photo, there is nothing she can do about it. This is just another example of the woman sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. And people wonder why there are such hard feelings about her out there.

Heaven said...

I doubt she'll be able to stop the pictures because she doesn't own most of them.

But I do hope she can put a stop to people like this..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sharon-Tate-Personal-1960s-Black-Sleeveless-Dress_W0QQitemZ7580289759QQcategoryZ197QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These fake items are scams and I wish they could be removed from Ebay.

Heaven said...

That link didn't post very well did it? lol

Here is the auction number

7580289759

Mussenden said...

I agree about the fake stuff....I cringe whenever I see people bidding on that crap.

Heaven said...

Me too. It's not only a rip off it's a disgrace to Sharon. I can't STAND sellers who cash in on the deaths of others.

Bruce Hall said...
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Heaven said...

Believe it or not, I actually agree with most of what you said, except for one point.

When I quit using coke, I didn't gain any weight. But maybe I just got lucky in that sense. I can only go by myself here cause all the other cokeheads I knew back then are still cokeheads today.

I can't respect Debra selling Sharon for her own personal profit, I simply can't. And yes I know, it's none of my business what she does.. So before anyone jumps on me, it's not as though I can stop Debra from selling Sharon.

I do agree with you 100% about if Debra wants to live in front of the camera she better be ready for the consequences. I believe that holds true for any celebrity. Not that Debra is really a celebrity.

If it wasn't for the fact that she's Sharon Tates' sister, no one would notice her at all, and I think she knows it. Sharon is her only claim to fame. I'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but if you think about it, am I wrong?

=)

Dok said...

Wow is right COl. Let Debra's person be. All of the stuff brought into question here is self serving and shallow.

However I do agree with Heaven about the selling off of Sharon's belongings and photos. There should not be a profit made.

Denise said...

Maybe the Smaldino's invited her, how do you know what the situation might be?

And just because someone goes in front of a camera to fight for her sister, or whatever her reason may be, it still takes a small person to ridicule looks.

I saw Debra at Roman's hearing and in pics taken after that. She looked about a size 7/8 or 9/10. She's not fat at all IMO. Not everyone needs to be a size 1.

GLH said...

Why shouldn't Debra make money by selling Sharon-related items? Bug made a ton o'cash with his book and the subsequent movies. She should be able to do whatever she wants or can do with anything she owns of Sharon's. Like it or not, that's her right. This reminds me of Robert Ballard bitching because the artifacts were being brought up from the Titanic. He's just ticked because he didn't do it first. But, he thinks it's okay if he salvages things from sunken ships in the Mediterranean Sea - you know - for historical reasons.

Mussenden said...

Yeah, why shouldn't Debra make blood money off of her sister that was brutally murdered? Afterall, everyone else is doing it..and if everyone else is doing it, that surely makes it right.

Heaven said...

Bugliosi made money yes, but Sharon wasn't his sister. There is something to be said for family honor and loyalty. I can't stop her, but I don't have to like it.

Robert Ballard discovered the Titanic. By discovering her, he then owned her. He gave no one consent to go remove items from that ship and had every right to be pissed off, I would be too.
Anyone stealing items off that ship to sell for personal gain is, in my opinion, a graverobber.

Heaven said...

I should also add that at the time Ballard discovered the Titanic, there were still living survivors. How do you think they felt knowing their fathers toothbrush or money clip or pocketwatch was being sold for profit?

When Ballard went back to the Titanic site and saw what people had done, he was very upset. This directly resulted in the creation and signing of an international treaty to protect the Titanic wreck site.

In 1989, Ballard took 200,000 students by telepresence to the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea, where they saw underwater volcanoes, artifacts, and the remains of ancient trading vessels.
Since these vessels were ancient, I'm preet sure there are no living suvivors. Whatever he took, if anything, was not for personal gain.

Robert Ballard has seem more of the ocean floor than anyone else alive.

There is your history lesson for today lol

There is a difference between a bereaved sister who weeps and cries at the parole hearing for her dead sister, then lines her pockets off the money she makes cashing in on that very death and a man who has discovered more about our oceans and what rests on the floor of them than anyone else in history.

Heaven said...

preet = pretty

Sorry, I keep forgetting to proofread before I post lol

salome said...

I should have proofed my post previous too. I should have said Smaldino family instead of LaBianca. :)

I would imagine it would be extremely hard for Debra to see some of the speculations on discussion boards because someone saw it somewhere or read it somewhere, blah, blah, blah and would explain some of her past comments. I don't know Debra so I'm not going to judge her about her alleged addictions or her looks and the ugly-duckling syndrome mentioned. I'm sure the majority of people posting on the discussion boards for this case are all beautiful! LOL!

Mussenden said...

a bereaved sister who weeps and cries at the parole hearing for her dead sister, then lines her pockets off the money she makes cashing in on that very death

Finally, someone who gets it. Debra may have the legal right to do it, but morally she's in the wrong IMO.

Heaven said...

Salome,

Please know that I am not talking about Debra's looks, her weight or any drug problem she may have. I'm simply talking about how I feel about her selling Sharon.

GLH said...

None of the artifacts from the Titanic have been sold. Ballard didn't own the Titanic, either. There is no more grave robbing going on there than what Ballard has done on the other ships he's salvaged. What about the Andrea Doria? No one seems to care that you can find artifacts on Ebay from that ship? What makes the Titanic different? The interest in the Titanic wreck is similar to the interest in the Tate murders. You hardly ever hear anything about other shipwrecks, but almost everyone has heard of the Titanic.....

Also, why shouldn't Debra make money from Sharon? Elvis' heirs sell stuff and make money from it? She's not selling crime scene photos, and what she sells helps keep her memory alive.

Bruce Hall said...
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GLH said...

Anton, I agree with you regarding her presence at the LaBianca parole hearings. I noticed that she just sat in the back and made faces, smirked and kept shaking her head at comments she thought needed her theatrics.

Heaven said...

Gary hon,

I hate to disagree with you but Ballard did own the Titanic. It's called Discovery Rights. It was his.. You can look it up online.

Under the law, granting ownership to the "finders" of a wreck is based on the premise that the ship has been abandoned by it's owners.

I realize that Ballard has come under fire about grave robbing in regards to his finds. I didn't know that parts of the Andrea Doria were on Ebay. But hers was not the disaster with the massive loss of life that the White Star Line suffered when the Titanic sunk. 1,662 passengers and crew were saved from the Andrea Doria, 52 lives were lost due to the collision, not the freezing water as was with the Titanic.

The Titanic was totally different, ignorance caused that wreckage. Stupid people in charge of running her when they obviously weren't qualified to be making the decisions they did. Innocent babies died in that freezing water. Third Class passengers were locked below like animals so First Class people could be saved. Entire families were wiped out. Wives lost husbands, families lost the sole breadwinner, children lost fathers. It was the worst maritime disaster of the century. 1500 lives were lost.. That's why the Titanic is different. Not because of some high budget Hollywood movie.

Elvis is a completely different thing and I was waiting for someone to bring him up lol

Elvis was a legend, an icon, an empire. He has been a money maker since the day his career began. When Elvis died, his estate was a complete mess. Graceland cost more than $50,000 a year just to maintain, not to mention the taxes. Priscilla had to do something because as it was going, Lisa Marie was about to inherit nothing but debt.

Much to the horror of those who knew Elvis, Priscilla allowed visitors to Graceland in 1981. By doing so, she not only gave something incredible to the fans, she was building an empire for the only child of Elvis Presley to inherit. You cannot compare Elvis Presley to Sharon Tate.

Sharon's career was yet to really take off. Elvis is a name everyone knows and most associate with Las Vegas. He was a money making machine, before and after his death.

I don't agree in the least that Lisa Marie just started selling off her rights to Elvis. She sold everything except Graceland. Which I think was really stupid on her part. No one said what she did was right.

Debra has a problem with others selling pictures, on Ebay for instance. If she's so concerned about keeping Sharon's memory alive, why does she want to stop those sales?

Heaven said...

Gary, I'm confused. On one hand you have nothing but praise for Debra, but because she may play a part in keeping someone in prison that you feel should be released, you express a little distain for the woman...

How come?

=)

salome said...

Heaven,

I was referring to some of the previous posts from others. The comment about needing to proof also was to you. I apologize if you felt I was directing that towards you.

salome said...
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Heaven said...

Salome,

It's all good.... No need to apologize.

=)

salome said...

Thank you. I do understand your point about the photos of Sharon and profiting from them. Personally, it is not something I would do. Apparently, there are people on here better acquainted with Debra than I am. Just some of the degrading comments probably aren't necessary. Instant Karma is the way I look at it. :)

GLH said...

Heaven, dear, it's okay to disagree. I, though, do think that any loss of life is bad. The fact that so many people died on the Titanic is a horrible thing, but that doesn't lessen the loss felt by the families of those lost on the Andrea Doria. During the time of the Titanic disaster, technology had just begun to evolve. Yes, they were at fault for being careless, but the Doria sank by someone's mistake, as well. Ballard may have discovered the Titanic, but he failed to preserve his claim, and another group was awarded rights to the ship. I think that they have done a great job with the exhibits of the artifacts, too. I have read several accounts where the survivors commented that they were glad that the artifacts were being preserved so that the memory of the Titanic would not fade away. Of course, I'm sure there are some accounts where some have complained. That is what makes the world go 'round.

As for Elvis being different, he is only an icon to those who choose to think so. You think it is fine for them to line their pockets with the money they make by selling his memorabilia, but it's no different than what Debra is doing, or what the benefactors of James Dean's estate are doing. Although Sharon is remembered more for the way she died, that doesn't make her any less of a person than Elvis or any other dead celebrity. Like it or not, Debra has the right to make money.

Bruce Hall said...
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GLH said...

Heaven, I have compassion for Debra. There is a difference. She has been through hell, and I think that she has kept it together as best she can. I do not agree with everything that she has done or does, but I don't think it is appropriate to bring up her alleged drug addictions, family squabbles, weight or appearance.

As for wanting someone released, I guess you are referring to LVH. She has served more time in prison than most do for murders. Like I have said before, I like consistency and fairness. Others have been released for similar convictions with much less time served. Had she been convicted of murdering someone else, not related to the Manson killings, I doubt she would be in prison today. The man who raped, tortured, and murdered my girlfriend was released years ago. He served less than 10 years. I wasn't allowed to attend his parole hearings because I wasn't next-of-kin. I learned to let it go and not let it ruin my life. Sure, I wanted him dead, but what would that have served. My only hope is that he is still reminded of what he did.

As for Leslie, she will probably never get out, but I am not going to rant and rave if she doesn't.

Heaven said...

Gary,

You know I love ya dearly, so I don't want you to misunderstand my posts. I would never try to argue with you.

You are absolutely correct, Ballard did not preserve his claim, but he did help pass a law that will keep the scavengers away from Titanic. As far as the Mediterranean ships, they have been there hundreds of years and have been "discovered" many times. Ballard was by no means to first to arrive.

In my worthless opinion, artifacts that are on display are fine, I have no problem with that. It allows people to not only see a piece of our history, but to learn from it as well.

One of the last remaining Titanic survivors, Ruth Becker (she died in 1990) actually went to see one of the displays and saw her fathers watch.

In regards to Elvis, pockets were already lined even before he did. His own manager was talking 50% of Elvis' money from Vegas shows. Elvis knew it and did nothing to stop it.

Elvis left his entire estate to his daughter, every penny. It sat there waiting for her until she turned 25. She raised it by 5 years. So she never started getting anything until she was 30 years old. Elvis died when she was 9. That's a long time to wait to become one of the richest women in the United States.

I don't have a problem with Priscilla building something for her daughter to inherit. Priscilla inherited nothing, zilch, zero. It all went to Lisa Marie. Priscilla did what she had to do..

What I do have a problem is, Lisa sold off everything Elvis, except Graceland. But, as with Debra, it's none of my business. But I don't have to like it.

No one is stopping Debra from doing anything. It is well within her right, but I still think it's a shitty thing to do. Like I said before, she weeps for her dead sister and does everything she can to keep the killers locked up, but she's cashing in on the very death she weeps for. To me, that's just twisted.

Heaven said...

Sheesh, I gutta start proofreading lol

Meant to say...

In regards to Elvis, pockets were already lined even before he died

Heaven said...

I agree, her weight and appearance have nothing to do with it, that has nothing to do with why I don't really care for her.

I realize that other killers have been released, but these other killers were not associated with Manson. Leslie is and that association will follow her for the rest of her life.

That is a choice Leslie made years ago when she decided to follow the word of Charles Manson. Society didn't force Leslie to kill. Just for the sake of argument, that's say Rosemary was dead when Leslie stabbed her, Leslie still put the pillowcase over her head, wrapped the lamp cord around her neck, held her down while Patricia stabbed her, ran and got Tex when Rosemary became too much for these delicate flower children to handle, and then stabbed her when Tex told her to..

She whipped the fingerprints off everything, wrote things in blood, took Rosemary's clothes, changed into them and then later burned them.

All this to prove her loyalty to Manson. That loyalty is what's keeping her in prison.

Ahh the choices we make.

Denise said...

Everyone has a right to their opinion and to like or dislike whoever they want.

However, Debra doesn't live in Beverly hills or Hollywood, she's lived in the same place for decades which is a very very down to earth community. She is highly regarded by all who know her in that community.

People who are drug addicts are usually bouncing from one home to another until they have burned all their bridges and everyone stays their distance from them.

So this flys in the face of any drug accusation. So I ask you, do you have proof of this? People are asking for proof of where the money is going, which I could see as a legitimate request. Can the drug accusations be proved, or are they just gossip and innuendo?

Denise said...

Just for the record, Angela Smaldino asked Debra to attend the hearing with her and while the Smaldino's were in town for the parole hearing they stayed at Debra's house.

Debra has never been in rehab nor is she there now. Her life is not in crisis, so the drug rumors are unfounded. You gossip mongers should go back to pulling the wings off flies, which is probably your second favorite hobby after spreading lies.

I have no opinion about her attending the parole hearings if she was invited.

1965opinion said...

Well said Denise.

I've stopped reading some of the posts on this thread as the cruelity and meaness is becoming old very fast. Boring...

Mussenden said...

I find the Debra Tate ass kissing boring myself.

Denise said...

Telling people to back up their shit and stop spreading lies is ass kissing?

Or are you just trying to deflect from the fact that your claims are completely false by even more name calling?

Hmmmmm.

Mussenden said...

I never claimed the bitch was a drug addict...she looks like a bloated alcoholic to me.

And yes, you are one of the ass-kissers.

Denise said...

----Drum roll-------

and there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Denise

Bruce Hall said...
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Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

What name does she sell under on Ebay?

Bruce Hall said...
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Mussenden said...

It wouldn't be the first time she's had problems with the IRS.

Peyton said...

I highly doubt Debra would admit to being a drug addict. As far as bouncing from home to home... she has lived in the same town for a while but she's had to move at least once from what I understand.

And, I agree with Anton, I doubt she'd want *another* problem with the IRS. Although maybe someone should call them just in case there is a new problem? ;)

Bruce Hall said...
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Denise said...

Yeah, maybe someone should, since all your information is false. Debra has not had to move at all from the home she's been in for decades, and I happen to know her neighbors also. So again, wrong info, but hey, if you think you're on to something, go ahead and report her.

Denise said...

what "star fund" are you talking about? CMG's? Cafe Presses? Where on earth do you get the idea she's selling on Ebay?

Peyton said...
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Denise said...

What is her Ebay selling name?

1965opinion said...

If you report Debra and the IRS finds nothing wrong, I'm not absolutely sure, but you may be held liable for the cost of the investigation? This includes any costs Debra might need to use to represent herself. Can anyone even report someone anonymously anymore? I thought that was illegal?

Then Debra could sue you for using the IRS as a tool of harrassment?

Maybe the Col knows how this all works?

Mussenden said...

How would you be held liable for an investigation if the IRS allows anonymous reporting? *rolls eyes*

Denise said...

well, it could certainly be called harrassment, but I don't know if anyone would be held liable. Maybe if she could prove a history of harrassment and completely unfounded allegations against her, but at this point, she's not worried about what a couple of hateful losers have to say about her.

These people are talking out their asses. Yes, CMG and Cafe Press pay Debra a small percentage as the heir to Sharon's estate, as with anyone's estate. And yes, it's taxable income. But Sharon's fan base isn't huge, and the percentage of these sells are extremely minimal (as compared with Marilyn Monroe or Elvis etc.) As the heir of Sharon's estate, it's no one's business what she does with these funds.

Robin set up the CMG thing thinking it would help promote Sharon to her fans, but again, Sharon's fan base is comparitively small compared to their other clients accounts, so they don't really do much with it. Sharon is unfortunately on the bottom of their list of money makers.

Everyone has a choice to buy, or not buy from Cafe Press, and let's face it, you are buying that product because you want it. You're not getting ripped off. You know what you are buying before you buy it.

If Sharon does get nominated for a "star" posthumously, don't ya'all worry your little heads about it, it will be payed for.

Denise said...

I meant to say James Dean, not Elvis as I'm not sure if Elvis is represented by CMG.

=)

Mussenden said...

That's a crying shame she isn't making as much money as she'd like to off of Sharon's corpse.

Denise said...

Actually, she could care less about the entire CMG thing.

Heaven said...
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GLH said...

And I thought I'd heard it all.....That's just wrong.

Heaven said...

Gary, those two last posts were not made by Denise and I, someone has created ID's to look like us...

Just thought I'd let ya know

Denise said...

that takes real imagination, doesn't it?

GLH said...

Heaven, I was thinking that didn't sound right! But the weirdest post is that Gibby post.

Denise said...

Yeah, cause if it had really been me I would have included "naked in green jello" LOL.

Denise

PS: and with Gary and the Colonel LOL

Heaven said...

You can tell it's me when you click on my name, mine says Heaven's Blog..

Maybe Denise and I should be flattered cause they say that imitation is the kindest form of flattery.

I have no problem standing behind my words and I don't need to create fake ID's to do so. It's called integrity.

=)

Denise said...

whoever is posting as Gibby seriously needs to start taking their meds again. Don't you know it's dangerous to think your "normal"?

SiebenzumSterben said...

Nice to see Heaven here, for what it's worth, the Col does have a great blog and we do get into some topics I haven't seen elsewhere. I used to post at KTS but too many jimmy posts lol...I have a lot of respect for Heaven and Denise and crew. If there is any criticism about the Col, he knows so damn much about the case I can't respond to some threads cause I have no history at all of the information he's sharing. IOW, I'm reading and learning things for the first time here.
Re the Titanic, I think Ballard did have some type of temporary claim but the French ignored it. I remember to this day the prime-time special hosted by Telly Savalas where the Nadir went down and stole that handbag and opened it up on live TV. I have a VHS tape of that show somewhere... There was a ton of cash, other valuables in it. I remember the broach (misspelling I know), a diamond-encrusted gold "Amy" and I think it said "May This Be Your Lucky Star." I'll never forget it.
It was sad as hell, thinking about the journey that piece of gold made. It survived because it wasn't made of flesh and bone.
It would be nice if the French had honored Ballard's claim, but I don't think the French have honored a claim in 500 years so it was no surprise. Ballard is coming to Pittsburgh BTW, to talk about Titanic. I'm going...and i'll probably get to meet him because of the business I am in. If you want to look it up, google Pittsburgh Speaker Series hosted by Robert Morris College, Heaven. Do it soon! I think he's coming next week! Robert Redford came in November, he talked for about 2 hours. This is a great program...
Since this post is about Debra apparently, I don't necessarily agree with her lifestyle IF, a big IF, everything I see here is true. But in the final analysis, who cares? She lost her whole family. She lost her sister in the most depraved and vile way I can think of. Whatever she does in this life, I say cut the woman some slack. If you don't agree with her, ignore her out of respect for Sharon's memory. By all means, don't buy anything from her if you are philisophically opposed to her selling things.
She loved her sister. On that TV show, she said she wished she was there the night the animal Watson came to do the devil's business. "One more fighter might have made a difference," she said. I say leave her alone. For whatever sins she's committed, she surely has paid a terrible price already. She's been living with this since 1969. That's a long time. Long enough.

LizAndErin said...
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Heaven said...

Ahh yes, Liz and Erin, the Debra and Paige haters..

Well since neither of them have a man in their lives, that would explain the lesbian fascination they have.

GLH said...

Extra wide doorways!

cortex_jnr said...
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Heaven said...

Why don't you dare to post with your own ID? Who you hiding from?

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

Yeah, I have an alter ego. Actually it's more of a wanna be lol

=)

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

I have two teenagers so I'm used to dealing with immaturity lol

=)

Mussenden said...

I thought maybe there was a full moon last night or someone left the asylum door open. LOL

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

And yet another imposter. They just keep coming. I never realized Denise and I were so popular..

The real Denise doesn't have a blog called Denise_Greek_Blog.

You all need to try harder

Dr. Frances said...
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LizAndErin said...
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siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

Yes, I'm the real Heaven. If in doubt just click on my name, my blog is called Heavens Blog, the imposters blog is called Heaven_kts...

Siebenzumsterben, that was such a sweet thing to say. Thank you

=)

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

That's such a nice thing to say...

=)

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

Awwww, I may have to make you my Valentine lol

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

Now I like you lol

You gutta come on over to KTS..

But your name is too big and I can't spell it all out without having to look back.. I'm blonde so you know how it goes lol

cortex_jnr said...
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Heaven said...

Awww, wanna be's are so 3rd grade.

siebenzumsterben said...
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Heaven said...

You're right, I wouldn't say something like that..

These people are so simple minded.

Dr. Frances said...

Sieben, if you're looking to fuck heather, why don't you just come out and say it instead of hitting me over the head with insults.

Denise said...
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