Thursday, May 29, 2008
Sunday, May 25, 2008
Mark Turner writes :
The limited Barker Ranch excavation came to an end without any finds. The digs were limited to about three feet deep whereas Susan Atkins once stated the bodies were eight feet down. Also note that due to some sites being in washes, forty years of flash flooding could have added several feet of soil deposits. The digging was limited to areas three feet wide by six feet long. Due to the way scent can travel underground (roots and water), actual gravesites can be quite a distance from scent locations. Ten feet is not uncommon and the distance could even be thirty feet. It should also be noted that this was a multi-disciplinary approach that did not rely only on dogs. Other scientific methods also pointed to these sites. Perhaps the best article can be found by clicking here. Some may consider the excavation a failure but it did bring new methods to the extreme sites for field testing. Everybody involved should be commended for the hard work involved and the experience gained.
Of course the fact that there are no bodies also probably contributed to the lack of finding any.
Hey- anyone notice that this maroon was quoting Susan Atkins? That's like believing the Bug. I think Mark should pay them back every cent they wasted on this!
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
Somewhere, A Perv Called Larry Melton Laughs As He Mounts An Underage Child; Meanwhile Debra Tate Reaches for the Cheetos
Manson ranch dig called off with no remains found
By JULIANA BARBASSA – 2 hours ago
DEATH VALLEY NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (AP) — A dig for clandestine graves at Charles Manson's last hideout ended Wednesday, yielding no bodies and leaving scientists puzzled over the clues that enticed them to go this far.
The dig had been scheduled to last three days, ending Thursday. But the work went faster than scheduled, with the crew of 20 digging until dusk, then camping out at night beside the ranch house Manson and his followers had used.
"There have been no human remains found," Inyo County Sheriff Bill Lutze said after the four sites with greatest probability of holding human remains were dug up. "We're finishing up this site and that'll be it for the day — nothing."
Manson and his followers hid out at the ranch following their killing spree in Los Angeles. For years, rumors have swirled about other possible Manson victims, including hitchhikers and runaways who visited the site and were never heard from again.
Scientists who conducted a preliminary probe of the rugged, remote site in February said they identified several spots that could be graves, leading Lutze to conduct the exploratory excavation.
By Wednesday afternoon, the four most promising sites had been excavated and the dirt sifted. With the work done, the teams packed up and went home for good.
The search revealed little more than a .38-caliber shell casing — found on the surface on the first day and promptly dismissed by law enforcement personnel as being recent — and a pack rat's underground nest.
One site revealed fragments of animal bones, an ash pit and some stones used to make arrowheads. Rangers determined it was of archaeological interest, so digging stopped and the site was turned over to the National Park Service.
The researchers and law enforcers involved said the unusual physical environment made it harder to determine what was underground. Plants that exude unusual chemicals and rocks with magnetic properties were throwing off their equipment, they said.
"I haven't been this frustrated in a very long time," said Arpad Vass, a senior researcher at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
Vass said the excavation is a learning process.
"We're trying to improve the science. It's in its infancy," he said. "Every exercise we do like this will further the science so that one day we can say, 'Yes there is a body here.'"
Manson's clan was ultimately prosecuted for nine murders that took place in the summer of 1969. He is serving a life sentence at Corcoran State Prison.
Monday, May 19, 2008
Scientists gear up 'Big Dig,' seeking bodies on Charles Manson ranch
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
3:36 PM PDT, May 19, 2008
PANAMINT SPRINGS — Spooky rumors have persisted for decades that there may be clandestine graves at a secluded ranch used as a hideout by the Charles Manson clan after a 1969 killing spree.
On Tuesday, Inyo County Sheriff's investigators and scientists packing portable ground-penetrating radar, magnetometers and shovels will convoy to the Barker Ranch on a mission to confirm or put to rest such speculation.
The search at the property, which is at the southern end of Death Valley National Park in terrain so rough it can only be reached by four-wheel-drive vehicles, was expected to continue through Thursday in temperatures expected to exceed 100 degrees.
Wild-eyed career criminal Manson directed the gruesome forays that resulted in the massacre of Sharon Tate, three friends and a teenager in the pregnant actress' Benedict Canyon home, and the slaying of a couple in Los Feliz the next night.
A member of the so-called Manson family later suggested that bodies were buried at the Barker Ranch.
In February, cadaver-sniffing dogs led by a black Labrador named Buster displayed tell-tale agitation at two sites on the decrepit ranch, tucked in an arid canyon in the Panamint Range. Buster is owned by Mammoth Lakes Police Department detective Paul Dostie, a small-town investigator with a penchant for recruiting anthropologists, geneticists and geophysicists for his cases.
"The dogs were trained to alert on the unique combination of odors that make up the smell of dead people," Dostie said in an interview. "They alerted on the same spots at Barker Ranch."
Intrigued by the dog's enthusiasm, soil samples were analyzed by scientists who volunteered their services, Dostie said.
Analyses of soil samples were inconsistent, as were subsequent searches. Facing mixed results, Inyo County Sheriff Bill Lutze authorized four days of exploratory excavation.
In a rare move, the National Park Service closed the ranch to the public pending completion of the investigation.
But on the eve of what has come to be known in these parts as "The Big Dig," locals are criticizing the effort as a waste of time and money in a sparsely populated county that can ill afford it.
Rock Novak, proprietor of a country store in the isolated ghost town of Ballarat, said, "I've heard so many stories over the years about Barker Ranch. Some say there's 30 bodies out there; some say 24. Some say none at all. We won't know until they dig it up."
Anticipating a crush of journalists and curiosity seekers at his forlorn store offering rock and mineral specimens, antique bottles and cold soda pop and beer, Novak said he was stocking up on T-shirts emblazoned with Manson's image.
"It's my reputation on the line if we don't find anything," Dostie said. "We all hope this isn't another Al Capone's secret vault kind of deal."
He was referring to a television special hosted by Geraldo Rivera in 1986. The program was broadcast live and featured the opening of a vault believed to have been used by the infamous Chicago mobster. When the vault was finally opened, however, the only things inside were some empty bottles.
The ongoing Barker Ranch investigation involved forensics experts from the Utah Attorney General's Office, the private laboratory Evident Inc. of Virginia, an archaeologist from Cal State Long Beach and members of the Anthropology Research Facility at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, otherwise known as "The Body Farm."
They aim to sweep the property today with radar, magnetometers, lasers and special blue lights that cause bones to glow at a great distance. They also will test soil samples with portable gas-chromatograph and mass spectrometers.
"This is the stuff of television's 'CSI' series," Lutze said in a prepared statement. "Some of this equipment is so cutting-edge that it does not exist in the market place. This case will dramatically alter how police agencies search outdoor crime scenes in the future."
In any case, locals predicted investigators may unearth ancient Indian graves. Some park rangers speculated that if human remains are discovered at the ranch, they may be connected to a separate Death Valley mystery: the 1996 disappearance of four German tourists -- architect Egbert Rimkus, 34, his girlfriend, Cornelia Meyer, 28, his 10-year-old son Georg Weber, and Meyer's son Max, 4.
In the late 1960s, the Manson gang roamed the barren landscape in dune buggies and prepared for "Helter Skelter," a race war Manson was trying to spark. The phrase was taken from a Beatles song, which Manson believed was encoded with predictions that the conflict would destroy modern civilization. Manson and his followers planned to survive by living in a tunnel, then emerge as leaders of some new world order.
Manson was arrested by law enforcement authorities who discovered him hiding beneath a sink in the rock-and-plaster ranch house five miles up Goler Wash, a narrow rocky canyon that is home to chuckwallas and wild burros and is traversed via a teeth-chattering serpentine dirt road.
After months of frustration investigating the 1969 Tate-La Bianca murders, detectives got their break when Manson follower Susan Denise Atkins, being held at the Sybil Brand Institute in East Los Angeles on separate murder charges, talked to a another prisoner who conveyed the incriminating information to authorities.
Manson and his followers were subsequently arrested in a raid at Barker Ranch.
In 1970 and 1971, Manson, Atkins, Leslie Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel and Tex Watson were tried for murder. All were found .guilty and sentenced to death. The sentences were commuted to life imprisonment when the state Supreme Court abolished the death sentence.
Their petitions for parole have been repeatedly denied.
Saturday, May 17, 2008
Friday, May 16, 2008
I just asked these on the new Yahoo group TATE FAMILY LEGACY. My guess is they don't have the nads to let the post through.
(photos from 1922)
So since this is the Tate Legacy let's ask Tate some questions about her legacy. I have only a few.
1- Why have you refused your father's ashes a proper burial?
2- Why were you disinherited by your parents?
3- Why do you tell people that legally you represent Sharon's estate when you have nothing to do with it at all?
4- What did you hope to gain by pimping your murdered sister's clothes on a tabloid tv show?
5- What were some aspects of the FBI investigation that involved you in 1969?
6- Where did all that money go that people contributed to your campaign to get a Star for Sharon on Hollywood Boulevard?
7- When did you last see your nieces and nephews, the daughter of your dead little sister, also part of the Tate Legacy?
8- How much ham do you put on your sandwiches?
aww shit banned in less than half an hour
Debra fears free speech and the truth
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Monday, May 12, 2008
Lohan withdraws from Manson family movie: spokeswoman
LOS ANGELES (AFP) — Lindsay Lohan has withdrawn from an upcoming movie about convicted murderer Charles Manson, her publicist said Friday, following an Internet report she had been axed from the project.
The 21-year-old actress was due to play Manson family follower Nancy Pitman in the film "Manson Girls", but has pulled out of the production because of scheduling conflicts, spokeswoman Leslie Sloane said.
"She is not able to do the film as she has signed on to the film 'Labor Pains' and the TV show 'Ugly Betty' and the dates conflict," Sloane confirmed in an email to AFP. "She was interested in Manson if her schedule permitted."
News of Lohan's withdrawal from "Manson Girls" came as the respected movie industry blog, deadlinehollywooddaily.com reported that the actress had been dumped because other actors refused to work with her.
Lohan, regarded as one of Hollywood's brightest young actresses, has seen her career falter in recent years amid a string of personal problems which have included arrests for drink-driving, drug possession and a stint in rehab.
Her last movie was last summer's box-office flop "I Know Who Killed Me", which suffered a critical mauling and earned Lohan two awards at the Razzies, the annual parody of the Oscars that honors the worst of Hollywood.
Lohan has also been criticized in the past for her performance on set, with the producer of 2007 film "Georgia Rule", James G. Robinson infamously blasting her in a letter for her repeated late arrivals and absence from the set.
Robinson described Lohan's behavior as "discourteous, irresponsible and unprofessional," and accused the starlet of acting "like a spoiled child."-------------------------
Tis a shame- she will miss out on a scene like this (how many mistakes can YOU find?)
EXT. CONSTRUCTION SITE – MOMENTS LATER – NIGHT
Brenda sits in the operator’s seat of the EARTH MOVER, fiddles around with the controls, while her latest boyfriend, Michael Montfort, stands below looking impatient.
I thought you said you knew how to work this
This one’s kind’a big, okay?!
INSERT ON CONTROLS – as Brenda pushes a button, making THE ENGINE TURN OVER and START UP..
BACK TO SCENE
Okay, okay! Let’s get this thing moving!
Just hold on, goddamnit! I’m doing the best I can!
Just hurry the fuck up!
Now dig that fuckin’ hole!
Two COPS put Michael in handcuffs.
INSERT ON TRUNK – the BODIES of TWO MEN are stuffed into the trunk.
Looks like they were killed with a shotgun...
What, you were just gonna bury these guys on
the side of the road?
Call an ambulance! This one’s still alive!
Got something here!
We’ve got a body down here... Looks pretty
Friday, May 09, 2008
BLOGGING- They were investigating the destruction of a earth moving machine not a Park truck...he prepares to arrest a man who WILL become? Wtf? After arrest he is in jail, finished.
Show claims that Debra was 15 when Sharon was murdered then 17 one year later?
LOL- OMIGOD snot blow- "I arranged to look at Charlie."- Such insane bullshit.
Debra- What about the Legacy of your Father's ashes?
Another Crap Show!
BLOGGING- Holy shit Debra has lost her mind- SHE wasn't in the shower. That whole story never happened to her. Wayne didn't call anyone. Her whole story is bullshit. She didn't call Roman or her father.
Roman didn't cry to Debra. He was gonna divorce Sharon anyway.
BLOGGING - "Do what Tex says because he knew the layout?"- no one said that. Debra says they used the Towels? UMMM no.
HURL- Debra has a really bad feeling. I CALL BULLSHIT.
The Line is busy? Ummm it was DEAD.
COOL footage at 8 mins in- that is Tennant Roman's agent arriving to id.
BLOGGING- Hatami disses Roman but whatever...
Tom O'Neill sounds wacky- Martial Arts lessons? Guerrillas? Holy shit his new book should be better than fucking Harry Potter.
That Librarian bitch is great- Do you love me enough to father my children? Like they ever said this shit.
Haha - O'Neill cannot pronounce Bobby's last name!
Blogging- WHAT THE FUCK DEBRA? Does anybody vet this shit? Sharon was not nominated for an Academy Award for ANYTHING. Are you slowly losing your marbles?
Tom O'Neil talks about Manson's weird brainwashing TECHNOLOGY? Like what, rayguns? Sounds like the book he is writing is gonna be a doozy.
Narrator bitch talks about MANY parties Manson attended at the Melcher house. How many is many? .....more to come...
(CNN) -- Authorities said Friday they will begin digging for evidence of graves at a California ranch that once was home to the infamous "family" of convicted killer Charles Manson.
Soil testing to determine the possible presence of buried bodies was inconclusive, authorities said Friday, so "exploratory excavation" will be done later this month, Inyo County Sheriff Bill Lutze said.
The dig will be carried out "to either confirm or put to rest speculation that bodies may remain there from the Charles Manson era," Lutze said in a written statement.
In March, search crews found indications that human remains may lie within a few yards of Barker Ranch, the onetime hideout of the "Manson family."
The sites were first identified by trained dogs, and testing equipment from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory also indicated the possible presence of remains, said Sgt. Paul Dostie of the Mammoth Lakes, California, police department.
The excavation will take place at sites where cadaver dogs gave mixed indications and soil testing was inconclusive, Lutze said.
"There was no consistent response from the dogs that searched, and no conclusive findings from the soil samplings tested by top experts in the field," he said. "Therefore, I believe the only way to determine once and for all whether there are bodies buried at Barker Ranch from the time of the Manson family is to proceed with limited excavation in a very few areas."
He said four methods of testing were used at five sites on the ranch. No site was identified by all four methods as possibly having remains, but positive findings by one method were corroborated by another at some of the sites, the sheriff's department said.
The excavations will begin May 20 and will continue through about May 23, although additional days will be added if needed, he said.
Barker Ranch is National Park Service property, and will be closed to the public during the excavation, the sheriff's department said. Media access will be limited, but daily briefings will be provided.
After Dostie's dog and another dog, from NecroSearch, a nonprofit organization that specializes in finding clandestine graves, indicated the possible presence of human remains, testing equipment from Tennessee's Oak Ridge laboratory indicated two likely grave sites and a third possible grave site, Dostie said.
Manson and four others were convicted of murder and other charges in connection with a two-night spree in August 1969 that included the slaying of actress Sharon Tate. The slayings -- and Manson and his family members -- transfixed the nation.
Manson is serving a life sentence at California's Corcoran State Prison. CNN sent letters to him and to codefendant "Tex" Watson, asking if there were victims buried behind Barker Ranch.
Manson did not reply, but Watson did, writing in a letter:
"I was the first family member to go to the desert after the murders and also the first to leave. I say this only to let you know that no one was killed while I was in the desert. But I don't know what took place after I left. I don't think there were any more killed, I hope not! I have absolutely nothing to hide."
A letter from Janet Parent to the Leslie Van Houten Parole Board in 2000 courtesy of Nelson's old site.
Orca was not the first unrelated relative to speak up against the whore who "only" stabbed a dead lady.
Dear members of the California Board of Prison Terms:
I am writing in regards to prisoner #W 13378 Leslie Van Houten.
I have been silent too long. My family never thought that the day would come when any of these animals could possibly be released back into society, but here we are. It is time to speak out.
My name is Janet Parent and I am the sister of Steven Parent one of the victims of the Tate murders. I am appalled that this woman even has a right to possibly return to society. All the therapy and degrees in the world doesn't change the fact that she is a cold blooded murderer.
These people are not insane and were not at the time they committed these murders. They planned and conspired to commit these crimes. Insanity might be a small reason to help understand how these horrendous crimes were committed, but insanity wasn't a factor. They knew exactly what they did and being a model prisoner doesn't give them the right to be released.
Leslie Van Houten is a murderer, granted she wasn't at the Tate house but she wanted to be there and in my mind that doesn't make her any different than the rest.
Where is my brothers degree? Eighteen, just graduated from high school, accepted to college. No, he didn't even get the chance.
Miss Van Houten isn't supposed to be alive, because our system sentenced her to death, but she is alive and should spend the rest of her life right where she is, remembering each and every day of her life what she has done.
If any of these animals are let out our system is telling us that you can murder and murder and murder and get away with it.
Please don't let my family and the other victims families down.
Say no to her release.
Bill Nelson Published this July 17 2000. Yes, Babs is basically full of shit. But she's right. We mustn't forget LVH was involved in Shorty's murder and never paid the price.
Barbara has been after me for some time to offer Leslie Van Houten a challenge. Barbara has said that maybe if Leslie took her up on it and passed, that perhaps she might back off a little from opposing a release date for the twice convicted murderess.
I received a call last night from Barbara as she had just read my updates of July 14, 2000. She was deeply moved by the letter from Angela Smaldino and asked me to convey her deep admiration for the way she handled herself in the letter. Then, Barbara began talking about how all of the killers are still lying and none of them tell the truth. She spoke of Susan Atkins and stated, "She is still protecting Charlie!" "When Susan tells the parole board about the motive for the Tate murders being a 'Copycat' killing to get Bobby out of jail, she is lying."
"That was not even introduced into the trial until the death penalty phase following the guilty verdicts and even Gypsy admitted that on that Hard Copy show with Vince Bugliosi."
"To the degree that Susan keeps telling that story, she is still protecting Charlie."
To Leslie: Take a polygraph test on the subject of the killing of Shorty.
Said Barbara, "Now that I read on your new page about Faces of Susan Atkins that she admits to helping cover up the area the murder took place, I find it hard to believe that Leslie did not know about it too.
Gypsy knew. Susan knew, and I believe Leslie knew."
Submit to a polygraph.
Show no knowledge of the murder of Shorty Shea at that time, no participation in the burial of Shorty and then I will consider backing off.
Barbara Hoyt: Star prosecution witness...
Thursday, May 08, 2008
With everything in the media now, Sadie's impending death, Squeaky's unlikely but alleged flip and the pursuit of imaginary victims at Barker, along with Debra Tate's newfound desire to make the murder of her sister all about her (disgusting) with false interviews and stories about musty clothes, it is important as TLB scholars to focus on the truth.
Nothing Debra Tate says should ever be regarded as anything but self serving.
There are no bodies at Barker Ranch,
Sadie doesn't "deserve" to die a horrible death (nobody does) but does not deserve much sympathy either.
I think the chances that Squeaky betrayed Charlie at this point about as likely as the US "winning" in Iraq.
What annoys me most at the moment is that people just quote Helter Skelter as truth. It is FILLED with lies and slanted reporting.
Here is how to handle it-
If it is from a trial transcript it is probably correct.
If it is a "quote" then it is probably made up.
I don't believe half the shit Susan or Leslie allegedly said.
Three bodies at Barker? Sure Bug.
DO NOT use a novel by a deluded District Attorney who assaulted his mistress and stalked his milkman as a definitive tome about anything.
We want the truth people.
That is all.
The two bitches known as Orca and Monkey Boy keep at it.
Orca has posted a bio of Leslie Van Houten on the Tate Family Legacy site.
Of course she looks like a beached whale for putting up the first killer's bio on a Tate LEGACY site when
a) killers should not be acknowledged
b)LVH never killed a Tate.
This is undoubtedly a slap back at Monkeyboy from NYC. He keeps ranting on his blog about peeing on photos or something. But the end result is that he is just making the sitch for LVH much worse.
I would pray for them or something but the laughs are too much fun.
Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Okay, Col, fight back the hurling.
Tonight there is an INSIDE EDITION.
You should probably watch it.
Thanks to 60skid for the heads up.
I haven't seen it. But based on everything I know and have learned recently about ORCA Tate the only thing I can do is feel sorry for her.
You see, ever since she was a little girl, Orca wanted the attention that her older, prettier sister had. It's only natural I guess. Looking up to big sister the movie star.
But at some point we all need to grow up, move on, find our identity.
Debra never did. She's frozen in time in 1969.
Disowned by her family for her behavior. Disinherited at the very end by her father. Trying to mount a career on the back of her dead sister. Stripping off for Oui Magazine. Showing up for parole hearings that she is not needed at and holding press conferences. Pretending to own her sister's rights when she is NOT the heir for her sister. Demanding Sharon's belongings whether they are hers or not. Everything she does screams ME TOO!!!
I mean how dare Orca run a site called Tate Family Legacy when she wasn't part of the family for decades? When she doesn't even interact with anyone left from the family?
So what's her next brilliant idea? Let's go on a tabloid exploitation show and have someone dress up as MY BRUTALLY MURDERED SISTER in her ACTUAL FUCKING CLOTHES so I can get some face time on television.
Attention seeking. No self awareness. No morals.
Where's my harpoon?
Tex has spoken DEFINITIVELY!
In the 1990’s and early 2000s, the late Russell W. “Bill” Nelson wrote tabloid-like stories about former members of the Manson family. He led a search party to Barker Ranch on rumors of bodies made by a man named Larry Milton (MELTON, the PERVERTED PEDOPHILE), who claimed he had been a former Manson family member. No bodies were found, but he continued to stalk the families and children of former Manson family members like myself. His agenda was vengeance and to seek self-aggrandizement.
On March 16, 2008, in an article entitled, “Oak Ridge scientist help tests for bodies in Manson ranch”, Associated Press writer Juliana Barbassa stated: “Manson follower Susan Atkins boasted to her cell mate on November 1, 1969, that there were ‘three people out in the desert that they done in.’” It seems that Susan’s agenda was to boast in pride to her cell mate, but I agree with Debra Tate: “If there are bodies here,” she said at Barker ranch, “we need to find them and send them home.” I’d like to hear what Susan Atkins has to say today, about what she said in 1969? [I hear only through the media concerning former Manson family members.]
What is the agenda? Is it to write books for personal gain? Is it to hype the Manson murders in the press before parole hearings? Or, is it so families of possible victims can find closure? If it is the later, let’s dig with much skepticism. I know of no bodiesHe mentions later on two members of the Family who remain devoted to Charlie. Squeaky and Sandy? Or who?