Monday, August 28, 2006

Hairy Katie- At the Family She Found Acceptance


This is from a site I found called 2Violent...
I chose Katie's because the point of view was interesting and actually reflective. Whoever wrote this made mistakes as they usually do. But they got some real insight into Katie.

Anyway check the site and tell us what you think.




Patricia Diane Krenwinkel was born on December 3, 1947 to an insurance salesman father and a homemaker mother. She was six and a half years younger than her half-sister Charlene, from her mother's previous marriage. Her teenage life in Los Angeles left much to be desired. At one point she was very overweight, and overcame this problem only after getting hooked on diet pills supplied by her junkie sister. Even after she lost the weight, though, young Pat still felt very ugly and unloved, partly due to an endocrine problem that caused an excess of hair on her body. She lost her virginity at fifteen as a means of combating her loneliness, only to never hear from the boy again. To top it all off, her parents got divorced when she was seventeen.

After graduating from Westchester High School, Pat moved out her mother's home state of Alabama to attend a Catholic college there. She dropped out after her first semester, though, and moved back to California. There she took a job as a secretary and shared a Manhattan Beach apartment with the heroin-addicted Charlene. Life was obviously less than ideal, and when Charlie Manson came knocking on her door, she readily answered.

One September night in 1967,Pat came home to find a group of her sister's friends and acquaintances at the apartment, one of whom was a grubby little man with a guitar by the name of Charlie. Charlie immediately took an interest in the shy Patricia, perhaps sensing her vulnerability. The two of them made love that night and Manson told his young partner over how beautiful she was. Pat, never having heard anything like that from a lover before, was so moved that she broke down crying, telling Charlie that she would follow him anywhere he went.

And follow him she did. With Daddy's credit card in hand, she became the third girl to join the traveling caravan, after Mary Brunner and Lynette Fromme. Charlie now had a blonde, a brunette, and a redhead in his collection. The four of them headed up north to Seattle, where Pat (soon to be known as Katie) wrote her father a letter; it was the last Mr. Krenwinkel would hear from her for over two years.

Katie became one of Charlie's most devoted followers, and even talk of Helter Skelter did not scare her off. Therefore it makes sense that Manson chose her to go to the Tate house on the evening of August 8, 1969. There she was arguably the most active female participant in the night's events, stabbing Tate friend Abigail Folger numerous times before having Charles "Tex" Watson finish the job.

The next night Charlie dropped Tex, Katie, and Leslie Van Houten off at the Waverly Drive home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. There Katie, perhaps now fancying herself an accomplished murderess, stabbed Mrs. LaBianca over and over again and wrote "witchy" messages in blood on the wall. Her indulgence in the macabre was not over, though; to top things off, she stuck a carving fork in the dead Leno's stomach, tweaked it, and watched it wobble back and forth, but not before she used the fork to carve the word "WAR" on his chest.

Not long after the murders, Charlie sent Katie to live with her aunt in Mobile, Alabama. It was there, in December 1969, that she was arrested for her part in what have come to be known as the Tate-LaBianca murders. For a while she tried to fight extradition to California, but gave up when fellow Family members persuaded her to be tried along with Charlie. She was sentenced to death in 1971 and remained loyal to Manson for years after that. In a 1978 interview with author Clara Livsey, Sandra Good proclaimed that "she is still with us."

Eventually Pat did separate herself from Charlie and became a model prisoner, having never received a writeup for over thirty years at CIW. She also comes across as perhaps the most remorseful of the three women. In a 1994 interview with Diane Sawyer, she said "I wake up everyday knowing that I'm a destroyer of the most precious thing, which is life; and I do that because that's what I deserve, is to wake up every morning and know that."


In September 1967, twenty-year-old Patricia Krenwinkel joined the Family, leaving behind her Manhattan Beach apartment, her car, her job, and even her last paycheck. She joined many other Family members on a drug-and-sex-filled eighteen-month tour of the American West in an old school bus, before settling into Spahn ranch in 1969. At her sentencing, Krenwinkel idealized the Family's early days: "We were just like wood nymphs and wood creatures. We would run through the woods with flowers in our hair, and Charles would have a small flute."

In August 1969, Krenwinkel participated in the murders at the Tate and LaBianca residences. At the Tate home, Krenwinkel dragged Abigail Folger from her bedroom to the living room, fought with her, and stabbed her. Later she would say, "I stabbed her and I kept stabbing her." Asked about how it felt, she replied, "Nothing--I mean, what is there to describe? It was just there, and it was right." The next night, Krenwinkel stabbed Rosemary LaBianca and carved the word "WAR" on Leno LaBianca's stomach.

Krenwinkel was arrested near her aunt's home in Mobile, Alabama on December 1, 1969. Krenwinkel had gone to Alabama, she said much later, because she feared Manson would find her and kill her. In February, she waived extradition proceedings and voluntarily returned to California to stand trial with the other defendants. Her trial attorney, Paul Fitzgerald, offered only a weak defense. At one point, Fitzgerald suggested that although Krenwinkel's fingerprints were found inside the Tate home, she might just have been "an invited guest or friend." Krenwinkel spent much of the trial drawing doodles of devils and other satanic figures.

At the California Institution for Women in Frontero, Krenwinkel has been a model prisoner. She has, with Leslie Van Houten, counseled young drug offenders, completed a course in data processing, and played on the prison softball team. She has expressed deep remorse for her role in the killings. In a 1994 interview broadcast on ABC, Krenwinkel said, "I wake up every day and know that I'm a destroyer of life, and living with that is the most difficult thing of all. That's what I deserve--to wake up every morning and know that."

72 comments:

agnostic monk said...

So which is it, did Charlie send her to Alabama to hide out or did she go there because she was afraid that Charlie would kill her? or neither?

And what's with the obsession with satanic figures in her sketches during the trial? What in god's name was going through your head, Katie!?

closed blog said...
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agnostic monk said...

BebeLeStrange said...
>>>You slam members of the victims family...do any of you actually know them? I don't but out of respect for the victims I would leave thier family alone<<<


Well I never claimed to love Sharon but I have to agree about the viciousness with which some relatives get attacked, especially when it comes down to their looks/appearance and inferring things about their personality, their private issues with their other family members that NONE of us could really understand and aren't meant to.

And in the case of Mr. LaBiancas ex-wife and grandson, I don't understand attacking their motives. They can process this horror that fell into their family any way they see fit. If that means writing a book or walking through the house with news cameras then so be it.

But, you know, this board is not a BORG. There are diverse personalities, agendas, and approaches. Can't really make an accurate blanket statement about the participants as a whole.

Problem Child said...

Let's face it. This case attracts all the wackos. You have people from the woman claiming to be Roman and Sharon's daughter to Bill Nelson to the fake Ruth/Clark Ronson (who has another website I see). It's been almost 40 years and the madness continues.

Salem said...

BebeLeStrange said...
This blog still isn't making much sense to me..

OK...Granted you have people like Salem, who although may come across as a litte nutty actually seems to have more heart than the rest of you...Salem, I would never think I would say to this someone who claims to be friends with the nutcase Sandra Good but thank you for showing your humanity...( same to CB)


Thanks Bebe,
Im just a wild and crazy lil gal! :) I do have a very Big heart. Sandy is a bit odd and of lately a bit odder.
But alwyas know, I do have love, I do pray for peace, and I do think people will get what they deserve in the end.
Peace

closed blog said...
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agnostic monk said...

BebeLeStrange said...
>>>Thanks for the reply Mr. Monk, I have to admit I don't know what a BORG is<<<

The concept of The Borg comes from Star Trek, they were cyborgs, human and machine, all sharing one mind. I'm not a huge ST fan (though I did go through a brief TNG phase with some of my stoner friends in college) but the term has come to be known in the popular lexicon as a giant blob of unstoppable group-think, a collective hive-mind, where everyone thinks alike, differing opinions are not tolerated, and the goal is to coerce everyone and anyone into the group. "Resistance is Futile," The Borg say to their conquest. "You will be assimilated". It's viewed as a science-fiction metaphor for social conformity among other things.

My point was simply that this blog is NOT a Borg, it hosts a diverse set of opinions and views and we frequently clash with each other over those views like little brats. I've gone head-to-head with a lot of these folks, they've smacked me down and I've smacked them down, but I still enjoy communicating with them.

read more (or dont) about the Borg at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29

it's a fun read. And that's my pop-culture whore input for the night. Jesus I have to go to bed!

agnostic monk said...

demon knight said...
>>>any pity i had for her went out the door when she began to attack Leslie; a woman who did NOTHING to the Tate family.<<<

oh god DK I do not relish getting into this again.... and let me remind you again I *DO* believe Leslie Van Houten deserves parole and I really hope she gets it this go around, BUT.... We've all seen the pictures and newsclips. There's ----> LESLIE <---- dancing down the courthouse hallway with Pat and Susan, singing Charlie's songs, laughing in everyone's faces. Which trial was this? Oh yeah that's right the TATE-LaBianca trial, where the details of Sharon Tate's gruesome murder at the hands of Leslie's friends were being hashed out for the world.

Don't tell me Leslie never did anything to the Tate family. I know she wasn't convicted for her behavior at the trial, but in this very strange case it IS a factor.

ColScott said...

bebel
fuck off and die
nothing of yours has ever been censored
you are just some Turnerite trying to stir shit off

uncle ace said...
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Yepyep said...
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Synesthesiac said...

Debra's reasoning being at Leslies hearing should be, crime victims/family related (and quite possibly may be since I don't know) not because of Leslies behavior in 1970.

I have read this before monk and meant to say this, but also in their 'behavior at the trials' true scenario you've described, is the very real factor that these people were under the influence of the most powerful hallucinogen on the planet.

This is not an excuse ! And I know It doesn't matter what you eat, snort, drink, smoke whatever... you are still responsible for your actions and stuff. Just try telling your wife (when caught cheating) "Honey I was drunk" or "I ate some sort of mushroom and she looked just like yoooou"
---
I am only applying this as monk was saying, to their behavior during the trials & not to the nights of murder themselves. Although since LSD25 seemed to be a staple of the family diet it could be a factor in many other areas of this case.

All I'm saying is that it is a huge factor in their behavior at that time, and I think that should be considered. I don't think they were able to control their emotions so well. They couldn't help it sometimes when they suddenly burst out laughing when they were really feeling anguish, or cried while feeling joy. Anyone who has ever experienced LSD can (during that time) look at these peoples eyes and hear them talk to know they are tripping...& can relate. Those that haven't never will understand this. (and that doesn't make them bad or wrong, it just clouds their judgement imo).

Looking back on my own past I just know I would hate for someone to take something I said or did while drunk/tripping or whatever from decades ago against me...today.

ps
O and monk. This is not a post against you or your opinions in any way, fellow onion. In fact I'm alligned fairly well with you on most issues about this case. There are just a couple of things I'm at odds with your opinion on and this is one of them. I just think that you put to much importance in this issue towards their behavior almost 4 decades ago while young/dumb and saturated with LSD25..

yepyep
I think Tex says that he ducked out on his own. But then again Tex says Charlie made him do everything so when he cut out on his own it was really charlie I guess ?

http://www.aboundinglove.org
/sensational
/wydfm/wydfm-015.php

catscradle77 said...
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Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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Synesthesiac said...

hey cats thanks and yea ltns. Been very busy lately.

hey yepyep np simple mistake & probably my fault. I'm not used to posting here that often & how were you know know my posting habits anyway.

I'm used to at other boards I post on (not TLB related) putting >> on anything when I'm specifically qouting someone <<

And then my comments below or above depending on the board.

Synesthesiac said...

yea Tex is full of it and I don't trust him - the most of all of them.

Yepyep said...
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Pristash said...

In Tex's book I believe he claims that he was able to deceive Charlie about a phone call that his mother made to the ranch from Texas looking for him. Tex told Charlie that the FBI was looking for him in Texas (a lie, so Charlie told Tex to lay low, and Tex headed home to Denton or wherever.

Salem said...

BebeLeStrange said...
PS...Kind thoughts to you Salem, I may not always agree with what you post but I do think you're a nice person...and if nothing else you have shown me that not everyone who believes Charles Manson didn't deserve what he got is evil and mean-spirited.


I hope whatver is it you're looking for in the middle of all this madness will come your way...

Peace back at ya!
:)

Hi
I am not really looking for anything, but what you wrote is what I hope others could see.

*and if nothing else you have shown me that not everyone who believes Charles Manson didn't deserve what he got is evil and mean-spirited.*
that means alot to me.
Peace:)

Deb said...

Yepyep said...

So...any sign of Katie's doodles anywhere?

I think there are some in Helter Skelter in the picture section

Deb

Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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Joe said...

Yep Yep:

What are the biggest lies Tex tells in his book?

Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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agnostic monk said...

Syn I greatly appreciate your post. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I took LSD back in college, I know what tripping feels like. If the girls say they were tripping on acid during the trial, I believe them. But I don't believe for a second that LSD is 100% responsible for how they acted. Tied up in their acid fog was intent and purpose. They knew the victim's families were seeing all this (let alone the entire world), they just didn't give a shit. Making a "statement" and messing with people's minds was more important to them.

I too would hate for something I did or said while under the influence to be held against me years later, but this wasn't exactly on par with saying something inappropriate to a girl in a bar while drunk.

Anywhoosey, I talk too much.

agnostic monk said...

demon knight said...
>>>I hate to burst your bubble monk, but Leslie didn't do anything to the Tate family.<<<

DK, I never suggested that Leslie was in any way culpable of or formally charged with the Tate murders.

I don't know Leslie Van Houten personally, but I have read and seen enough to conclude that if asked, Leslie would probably admit that her actions during that small window of time most likely added to the pain of the Tate family. She seems honest and insightful enough to recognize this. That's just a guess. have you ever discussed it with her?

You and I are gonna have to agree to disagree otherwise we'll be going in circles forever.

Oh, and you'd have to ask Debra Tate herself about any wrongful death lawsuits. How would I know?

Deb said...

Yepyep said...
Gotta check that out tonight then. I read HS last year. Those satanic doodles must have made quite an enormous impact on me...


Yes, I believe she missed her calling as an artist fer sure.

Deb

Deb said...

Colonel,

was Bartok Frykowski the only family member of the victims to file a wrongful death suit? For some reason, I am thinking that someone else did as well - however, this could be totally erroneous.

Deb

closed blog said...
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agnostic monk said...

demon knight said...
>Leslie would probably admit that her actions during that small window of time most likely added to the pain of the Tate family.

How so?<<

Arghh, do I really have to answer this again? How so? By parading down the hallway of the courtroom hand-in-hand with Pat and Susan, singing Charlies songs. By laughing and giggling and making a complete mockery of the proceedings during the trial. THAT'S HOW SO.

Do you think the Tate family did not see any of that? Do you think that did not hurt them immensely, that all three girls, Leslie included, could behave this way in the face of all that horror?

No, this isn't the same thing as being offended by Leslie breathing, not by a long shot.

You and I are on two different wavelengths. You're stuck on Leslie's technical convictions. I'm stuck on the larger spectacle she helped create. I think it's perfectly appropriate for that spectacle to factor into her parole hearings. You don't. We disagree. Let's move on.

agnostic monk said...

ask Leslie if she thinks those actions hurt the Tate family. Then come back and let's talk about it. Or don't. Whatever.

Either way, I do think this time around she deserves her release, finally.

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>We all have different viewpoints. My best to Bruce on the 31st. May the law be followed, and the correct thing done.<<<

cats, what do you think are his chances? I wonder if there is a general feeling or consensus among those close to him and his attorney(s)?

60skid said...
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ColScott said...

Just for the record
That Bebel psycho deleted herself from the blog- I wish I had the post on here to mock

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

demon knight said...
>>>It doesn't matter what they saw. I have no doubt that their feelings were trashed upon seeing the girls act that way, but unless leslie commited a physical act of violence on the Tate family, which she didn't, then it doesn't legally matter what the girls said or did while at the trials.<<

Again, agree to disagree, because I very much disagree with you there. I think it does matter.

>>>Again, i reiterate that the Tate family has NO gripe with Leslie<<<

That's not up to you to decide, DK. That's up to the Tate family. If Debra is the only living survivor, than that is up to her.

>>and, if Debra wants to do the right thing, then let the Smaldino family handle their issues with Leslie as it is their right as next of kin.<<

As it is the Smaldino family's right to invite anyone they want to the hearings as victim's support.

Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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Salem said...

60skid said...
I see demon knight is back to deleteing his posts and Blog again.

7:30 AM, August 30, 2006

I see alot too.
Seems someone is back at Frontera's board.ummm

Salem said...

The Col has a blog, for US.why cant we all get along, and this friction between others stop!

why go copy from a DEAD forum and post here. Why get off the track of why we are here .

geez

Yepyep said...
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Salem said...

Yepyep said...
By the way, has anybody on here read that sad excuse of a book by that Clara Livsey? I don't know where she got that MD degree, but that university should be shut down.

9:58 AM, August 30, 2006

hi yep yep
I havent read the book.
The one book I want is called
* The Secret Disciple???*
sy lywenski?
its a oldie. I cant find it.. :(
Peace
Dianne

Salem said...

Charles Manson Love Letters to a Secret Disciple (Hardcover)
by Sy Wizinsky

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Availability: THIS TITLE IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE. If you would like to purchase this title, we recommend that you occasionally check this page to see if it has become available


oh well....

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

I need ten copies. Will trade chee pets of Elvis or President Clinton.

I do have a clearance of 50 Rush Limbaughs chee pets.....good to go.




Charles Manson: Love Letters to a Secret Disciple.
WIZINSKI, Sy.
Bookseller: Anorak ABA ILAB
(whitstable, KEN, United Kingdom) Price: US$ 146.61
[Convert Currency] Shipping within United Kingdom:
US$ 6.36
[Rates & Speeds]
Book Description: (Terre Haute, Indiana): Moonmad Press, 1976. Hardcover. Book Condition: Fine. First edition. A mosaic of works by and about Charles Manson, that includes a study of Manson’s six year pen pal relationship with a teenager. One of the scarcest Manson books. A near fine copy in a very good plus price-clipped, dust jacket. Bookseller Inventory # ABE-689798056

[Bookseller & Payment Information] [More Books from this Seller] [Ask Bookseller a Question

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

I got more Hoffa heads.....working hard.

Christmas is coming.

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...
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catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
http://www.devilexists.com/

>>>Whoa...got the info from Bret's site..new old footage!!!<<<

I'm trying to figure out if this is done by the same production company (or whatever they call themselves) that did the Manson 72/73 doc (I know the one dude is dead but others kept going and took over). I'm tempted to think it is because I recall them saying they were working on releasing some lost footage that wasn't in the doc, plus this website looks a little like their style.

Anyone know?

agnostic monk said...

these are the folks I'm referring to.

http://www.exclusivefilmnet.com/

Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Yepyep said...
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Salem said...

Yepyep said...
"hi yep yep
I havent read the book.
The one book I want is called
* The Secret Disciple???*
sy lywenski?
its a oldie. I cant find it.. :(
Peace
Dianne"

No that's another book, which I don't have but would love to own (I think. Is it any good?). The book I'm referring to is The Manson Women and it's a waste of trees.

12:04 AM, August 31, 2006

Oh ok. I dont have either books. But would like the one by Sy. The price is a bit steep tho.
:(
maybe Santa will bring it:)

Salem said...

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning

You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning

You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it

I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You're in with

Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, "How are you?" "Good luck"
But you don't mean it

When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it

No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you

Salem said...

whats on my ipod!

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...

same here Cat.
My best freind of 34 years) was murdered when she was 34 years old., i lay on the ground and watched her die in my arms.(bleed out)
I am not mocking any DEAD person or anyone that has lost a loved one.Cuz I KNOW how it feels.
Dianne

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...

cat said
I am done here, this day wasnt about you, but you had to come and defile shiat. Boo friggin hoo, the day wasnt about you.


I dont want the DAY to be about me.I didnt defile any shiat.
Its ok if others joke and prank BUT dont let me !!God forbid.

Salem said...

I AM DONE HERE. I DONT NEED THIS NOR DOES BRUCE...
says Cat.


I havent said anything against Bruce. Unless months ago when I asked about joel Pugh.
wtf?

Salem said...

syn says
All I'm saying is that it is a huge factor in their behavior at that time, and I think that should be considered. I don't think they were able to control their emotions so well. They couldn't help it sometimes when they suddenly burst out laughing when they were really feeling anguish, or cried while feeling joy. Anyone who has ever experienced LSD can (during that time) look at these peoples eyes and hear them talk to know they are tripping...& can relate. Those that haven't never will understand this. (and that doesn't make them bad or wrong, it just clouds their judgement imo).

soooooo true.