Wednesday, May 03, 2006

STONE COLD SILENCE- BROKEN!!!!


Rudi Altobelli IS still alive. Heaven asked me to find out several weeks ago.

This led to my first chat with Rudi in three years.

This led to me encouraging him to set the record straight before dying.

This led to me making calls to my ABC news pals. A producer lady friend over there did the first Snyder interview with Charlie and the Manson Women special..

This led to Rudi doing his first interview EVER.

Will there be a bombshell? Set your TIVO for FRIDAY NIGHT May 5, 2006 ABC 20/20.

This is gonna be amazing, me hopes.


( I should be back from the frozen North next week- at last.)

(Zero etc. was just one troll. He was sent by a jealous Turner. We tracked him and exposed him to his annoyed wife. He's gone. Play well people!)

557 comments:

1 – 200 of 557   Newer›   Newest»
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dok said...

Awesome Col, can't wait to see it Mate!

Glad to hear that the troll has been delt with.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Awesome!!

Thanks Col!!
Now I can finally put a face to the name....

=)

Salem said...

yep yep says(Zero etc. was just one troll. He was sent by a jealous Turner. We tracked him and exposed him to his annoyed wife. He's gone. Play well people!)

ROTFLMAO That's priceless! Especially the part about the annoyed wife! *howls with laughter*
THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

Heaven said...

Exposed Zero for what?

I hate only knowing half the gossip lol

=)

Minion of .Net said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Minion of .Net said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Previous post nominated for most incoherent in this blogs history.

Heaven said...

Minion of .Net said...

since heaven takes an interest in my boy zero she can find some useful stuff on this link that comes to you courtesy of us minions

Actually I was only kidding.. I don't have any problem with Zero.


=)

Magick_Films said...

Col., you never visit my blog anymore. I'm afraid I'm going to ask for my keys back

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Unset those Tivos. All Altobelli talks about is what it was like living in the house after the murders.

From the 20/20 web site listing for Friday night:

"Whether it's your dream or your nightmare, your home is your biggest investment. '20/20' looks at real estate from the ups and downs to the downright eerie."

Natalie said...

Hey Magick.... You're blog is enough to make anyone up-chuck and you definitely are one SICK Cookie!!!

BTW, Jeffrey Dahlmers wasn't a 'crime trendsetter'. In contrast, The Manson Family is more like The Simpsons and given the choice - I'd take The Manson Family!

meatwad said...

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Still, I want to see Altobelli's mug and hear him chat about a murder scene souring his investment.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Natalie said...

You're welcome, Cat - don't eat anything beforehand....

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
agnostic monk said...

Joe said...
>>>Unset those Tivos.<<<<

Oh that is so disappointing. They will probably have him on there for all of 15 seconds of screen time. Still it will be very interesting to finally meet the man.

I wonder if he'll admit to witnessing Woyteck raping Linda and then hearing Linda yell at Woyteck on her way out the door "I'll be back with my friends and their knives to get revenge on you, you bad bad man!!!!!"

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Cats said,

"Any tidbits on anything today Meatwad..."

Not much except I agree
Altobelli's got something to say.

He wasn't just an absentee landlord, he knew Melcher and probably everybody that frequented the place.

The guesthouse was just that..an adjunct to the main house used for people you know if you live there.

There really wasn't any separation to speak of....thirty (30) feet? Between the two structures, only a pool's length. A small pool.

Gunshots, screams being heard down the canyon?....how about 30 feet away. And one of those killed just left your pad. Minutes before.

Dogs didnt bark? You didnt run, get the hell out at least?

Talking about Garretson of course. And Altobellie.

And those two never have come clean.

Right, Col?

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Cats said,

"And finally, Mr. Meatwad is your belly alto?"


Why, yes. It thumps like a ripe watermelon.

Whump, whump.

Dok said...

catscradle77 said...
Where ya been Doc???

Sorry Cat, I have been busy, busy. No time for TLB these days. Crazy I know.

Tweety said...

I've lost Satori .......SOS...? I know he's busy but maybe he can spare a moment to say "hi" to us.... we miss you, Satori!!!

Minion of .Net said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Shopgirl said...

I think you are right on the mark about Linda's involvement, Savage. The one puzzling question that comes to mind is: Why then, didn't Linda disclose that Voytek raped her to the police or Bugliosi in '69? By cutting the 'deal' she did not have anything to lose by telling the truth - if that, in fact, is the truth.

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
agnostic monk said...

Shopgirl said...
>>>>I think you are right on the mark about Linda's involvement, Savage. The one puzzling question that comes to mind is: Why then, didn't Linda disclose that Voytek raped her to the police or Bugliosi in '69? By cutting the 'deal' she did not have anything to lose by telling the truth - if that, in fact, is the truth<<<

Because it isn't the truth. This rape bullshit is crap. It would have come out long, long ago. Wild LSD-crazed elephants could not have kept this from the mouths of all involved back in 1969-70. No way in hell.

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
agnostic monk said...

Savage RDDB-DA said...
>>>Another key detail linking frykowski to linda is the fact that Voyteck had a history of womanizing and getting what he wanted.<<<

Savage your language is very deceptive. That detail about Frykowski's sexual tendancies doesn't LINK him to Linda Kasabian any more than it LINKS him to a gazillion other young women kicking around the Los Angeles party scene in the late 60's.

I could cherry-pick little details here and there, play "connect-the-dots", and formulate my own conspiracy theory that would sound just as plausible. Except mine would involve time-traveling aliens from a distant galaxy, plus Zacarias Moussaoui and Madonna.

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Shopgirl said...

Thank you Savage for taking the time to clarify things in depth ....and thank you Monk for adding your input.

Although I'm not authority on the mindset of womanizers, most 'womanizers' usually aren't rapists. They have the panache of charming women with their demeanor and women respond favorably and are receptive ie: Hugh Hefner, George Clooney, Warren Beatty.

Nevertheless, I would think Voyteck would be somewhat cautious because he was a foreigner. A criminal record for him would have resulted in his deportation back to communist Poland.

Granted, hardcore drug usage likely did fry Frykowski's brain to a large extent.

Had Voyteck been an American citizen, it really wouldn't have mattered to the degree it does, as a foreigner. If caught, he would have been punished severely and been deported to Poland. US Immigration officials would have deemed him unsuitable to retain permanent residency.

Would he have risked his opportunity for a new life in America because of his drug and sexual indiscretions? Hard to say without knowing him.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Natalie said...

Shopgirl said: "Would he (Frykowski) have risked his opportunity for a new life in America because of his drug and sexual indiscretions?"

Frykowski defected from Poland once. Is he really that stupid to risk deportation from the US being caught dealing drugs, ripping off drug dealers and rape?

There was too much at stake for Voytek personally, to risk that kind of slow and painful suicide.

As a foreigner living in the US, Frykowski had the most to lose of all involved - because he wasn't a US citizen, something which was strong enough and caused him to defect and bring him to the US in the first place.

Getting involved so deeply with drugs, risk being caught, sentenced and imprisonment in the US; followed by deportation back to Poland where he'd be sentenced and imprisoned in a work camp for defecting - would have resulted in him being in jail up until Solidarity brought down communism in 1989.

It is said that Voytek was very determined and went after whatever it was that he wanted. If true, then those similar characteristics would apply in his determination to 'tow the line' so he'd be able to obtain US citizenship; to live in a country where freedom, liberty and free speech exist which did not exist in Poland until after 1989.

As a foreigner, he'd know that ripping off drug dealers would destroy his dreams, hopes and aspirations of living in America permanently.

I'm not convinced he'd sacrifice his life for brief moments of drugs and sex? Afterall, he was in his 30s and old enough to know better.

But I could be wrong.

Dok said...

Have you ever known a junkie? They do not think straight. Ever hear the saying "Never trust a junkie"? Think about where he was at the day he died. He was on a 9 day binge, that he bragged about. Tox reports for VF showed a high drug level in his system. I don't think he was a clear thinker, nor do I think he was a rapist. Nat, I think you are giving VF to much credit.

Dok said...

Here kitty, kitty, kitty.....

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

It's still my opinion that Voyteck didn't need to rape anyone.. Not only did he have Abigail and could barely speak english AND was stoned out of his gord more than he wasn't, there were more than enough girls hanging Cielo for him to screw if he so desired.

I also say that if Linda had been raped, it would have come out at the trial. Even if Bugliosi didn't use it, the prosecution would have. Even to this very day, Tex denies Linda having any involvement. Manson himself doesn't point any fingers at Linda... The only one still clinging to this is Savage...


That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it...

=)

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

I agree with you, Savage does have a well thought out theory. But, his theory has nothing to back it up besides more speculation....
Which is ok cause he's only stating his opinion.. So it's all good....

=)

Dok said...

catscradle77 said...
My DOk said...
Here kitty, kitty, kitty.....


>>>I am here Dok-I missed ya, man. I hear ya on the junkie thing-if it is bad enough, ya better nail down yer belongings. And, I really hate to be gross, but the guy was pretty hopped up on something-with all the deadly blows he took.

10:41 AM


Amen my twista playing sista. VF took a serious beating.

Dok said...

Heaven, smashing video! Appreciate you hooking us up with your link.

Heaven said...

Thank you, I'm glad you liked it

=)

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

meatwad said...
Say it ain't so, Joe.

Still, I want to see Altobelli's mug and hear him chat about a murder scene souring his investment.

4:01 PM

I also am curious as maybe it will answer some of the odd letters and calls I have been receiving the past month or so.
Thanks Col:)

Salem said...

Audio Magic said...
Savage said..
Linda was also at the Tate house to buy drugs from Voyteck who it was believed was on some kind of a methadone high at the time.

it was MDA wasnt it?

Salem said...

Audio
I wouldn't be so sure that Fry wasn't a damn rapist. After all he was Polanski's pal. Maybe he raped LK, maybe not, but from what I have read he was strung out on psychadelics, a cheater, and a user of people, and a leach. That doesn't mean he deserved to die...

I agree.
Maybe Linda embellished her story when she got back to the ranch to get others enraged.
I think VF was verbal abusive and did threaten Linda, but rape, I dont think so.

Salem said...

Col
Zero etc. was just one troll. He was sent by a jealous Turner. We tracked him and exposed him to his annoyed wife. He's gone.

Could you please tell me if this troll was in Va or in Kentucky?
it really means alot to me to know this info*
Thank you.

Heaven said...

Salem,

Could you please email me at heaven_71@yahoo.com

I need to ask you something...

=)

Salem said...

Heaven.
I just emailed ya.
Peace

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
uncle ace said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

I am staying home tonight to see this:)

meatwad said...

It cannot be missed.

I have never seen Mr. Alto Belly.

meatwad said...

Wait a minute, its opposite a Seinfeld re-run, man....

I dunno

Salem said...

;)
ya watch seinfild?
remember * the soup Nazi episode.
some fungi in the soup ??? :)
guess we will have chicken toreki here,,,hubby brough home take out.

meatwad said...

Never seen the show...was kiddin'.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

:)

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

maybe me Kentucky Fried here also*
man ..my son loves it!

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Don't be messin' with da man.

Matlock git it done. Right kindly so.

Give me a f'in hot dog, dammit.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Donut need no smart mouf from some ijot....gimmme da french mustard..french poop on it.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Womens...always axing the same dayum question.


How the laundry gone git done?

Hell, I don know. Git you a chinee.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Ah had me a womens like dat.

All ways da bus ran over da shit.

Come home wit KFC with road grit.

All ways

She say it extree cripee like.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Ah hopes you had da kechup.

Dayum.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Ah taut me ma dawg to do thet.

"As a punishment, he made me eat ma own cookin for a wik... "

He even liked it so Ma all ways cooked it up thet ways.

meatwad said...

We don git no hair on no bikuit 'round here.

We cooks em rite aways before it grow.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Speakin of Chee pet, I bought un o those.

That Elvis Chee pet.

Boy he look good wit that green hair. I even put ma mouf on his face. My laud.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Problem Child said...

Oh it's good to be back.

Caught the 20/20 episode. I don't know how old Rudi Altobelli is but he looked pretty good.

No mention of the ugly house that is on the property now.

Heaven said...

I thought Rudi was going to be interviewed about the case..
Ya know, setting the record straight before he dies.

I wasn't expecting this to only be about him selling the house lol

Oh well, least I got to put a face to the name... He wasn't what I had pictured....

=)

ColScott said...

that was the lamest thing I ever saw
why did he even bother to do it

Calling him right now

Minion of .Net said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jane Doe said...

Once I heard that 20/20 was going to focus on real estate, I didn't get my hopes up for the interview.

agnostic monk said...

I stayed home tonight for THAT?! I broke plans so I could stay home, do my laundry, and finally get to hear Rudi dish about his house, the people, and the case.

Well he did talk about the house a bit. It does kind of creep me out that he still felt so affectionate towards - and continued to live in - the house even after what happened there. And he was very fond of Sharon, wasn't he?

He talked about how just a few weeks after the murders he felt "safe" and "loved" coming home there. I would have felt anything but.

Joe said...

You people just don't get it about Rudi. Especially you, "Col. Scott," who is supposed to be a friend. Your naiveté is embarrassing.

ColScott said...

what don't I get Genius Joe?
He's a friend insofar as I know him and he takes my call
What don't I Get
and spare the homophobia JOE!

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Col Scott didn't conduct nor control the interview. So it isn't his fault how it turned out. Col Scott was simply the messenger.

Even if it wasn't what I thought it was, it was still worth watching. Least now I can put a face to the name...

Col, I appreciate you letting us know it was going to be on.....

=)

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Joe: "You people just don't get it about Rudi. Especially you, "Col. Scott," who is supposed to be a friend. Your naiveté is embarrassing."

Col Scott: "what don't I get Genius Joe?
He's a friend insofar as I know him and he takes my call
What don't I Get
and spare the homophobia JOE!"

Say again? Spare the WHAT? Wow, no wonder you get in so many fights. Where is there ANYTHING homophobic in my post?

If you were truly a friend of Rudi's, if you truly knew him, you'd know he will never, ever, tell what he knows. Why do you think he's been quiet -- and relatively destitute -- all these years when he could've made a fotune by talking? C'mon, Col, you're smart. Figure it out.

shoresendz said...

My two cents? I always wanted to know what the guy, who sued a down and out victims’ family, looked like. And now, thanks to the Col, I can put a face to the name on the lawsuit against Sharon Tate’s estate that claimed his carpet and furnishings and other personal items were damaged beyond repair due to the victims’ inconsiderate blood-letting. The guy’s an irredeemable scumbag.

Joe said...

Shores,

Where was it reported that Altobelli sued Polanski for the mess? I can't remember...

Joe said...

Audio:

I don't know but I doubt Altobelli sued Polanski because the carpet got bloody during a viscious crime. Looks like some Turner poser posted that.

No, I remember reading that somewhere.

agnostic monk said...

Heaven said...
>>>Col, I appreciate you letting us know it was going to be on.....<<<

oh me too. dont get me wrong I bitched and moaned about being disappointed but it was better than nothing and I would have completely missed it if not for the heads up from the Col.

Thanks Col!!!!

(oh and I would need some serious proof before I would believe that Altobelli billed Roman for the bloody carpet. If it is indeed true than Rudi is pretty gross as Joe indicated. I still can't get over the fact that he was so fond of Sharon and spent time with her and yet wasn't bothered by moving back into the house. I dont think you could possibly pay me enough to move back in there.)

agnostic monk said...

Audio Magic said...
>>>I found his remarks about feeling all warm and fuzzy or whatever to be odd, but you have to remember not everyone is as morbid, and as easily creeped as we are, lol!
AM aka Chasing Bunnies<<<<

Yeah, I guess maybe he was so in love with that house before the murders - and who could blame him, the house and the property were pretty amazing - that he refused to let something even this bad sour his feelings for the home.

Hey, is this forum big enough for TWO AM's????!!!!!

:)

Joe said...

Joe said...
Shores,

Where was it reported that Altobelli sued Polanski for the mess? I can't remember...

Audio:

I don't know but I doubt Altobelli sued Polanski because the carpet got bloody during a viscious crime. Looks like some Turner poser posted that.

Joe:
No, I remember reading that somewhere.

Audio: Oh, you READ it somewhere... then it must be true!

Relax dude. Who said anything about it being true? I asked WHERE was it reported. Damn, people are testy on this site.

shoresendz said...

Audio Magic said: I don't know but I doubt Altobelli sued Polanski because the carpet got bloody during a viscious crime. Looks like some Turner poser posted that.

Audio: The word is spelled: Vicious. Offense taken. I’m no "Turner poser."

Audio/Joe: I don’t take my information from “posts”, I take it from documents:

Filed November 19, 1969 with the Superior Court of the State of California for the Country of Los Angeles, Rudolph Altobelli, Plaintiff vs Roman Polanski, John Doe I as Executor/Administrator of the Estate of Sharon Polanski, (Which would be Paul Tate, Sharon’s Father) Deceased, Time, Inc., and Does II-XX, Inclusive.

Basically, when Sharon & Roman signed their lease, it was for “Single residence purposes for one family, consisting of Roman & Sharon Polanski, Gene Gutowski, and one domestic employee.” In the lease, the Polanski’s also agreed to take out a public liability and property damage insurance police for $100,000 public liability and $25,000 property damage insurance policy—which they didn’t do. And, on top of that, the Polanski’s allowed Woytek Frykowski and Abigail Folger to be house guests.

Altobelli’s suit: “plaintiff is informed….that from about April 1969, defendant Polanski and defendant decedent…authorized Abigail Folger and Voityck Frykowski to live and reside in main house…As a direct and proximate cause of trespassory conduct of Abigail Folger and Voityck Frykowski, and each of them, Plaintiff’s furniture, furnishings, and other personal property in said main house were damaged, destroyed and depreciated…the interior and exterior structure…adjacent lawns, gardens and shrubbery have been damaged, destroyed and depreciated…

Altobelli also wanted back rent from August 15-October 15 (even though he was living on the property), and because of Roman’s Life Magazine article, Altobelli sued for an additional $350,000 for “the conduct of said defendants was wilfull, deliberate, and malicious. And, finally, Altobelli sued for $100,000 for emotional and mental distress.
So, tallied:
$3,600 Non payment of rent
$15,000 for damage repairs and failure to insure.
$15,000 for damages to furniture, furnishings and other personal property
$150,000 for damage and depreciation to said real property
$100,000 for emotional and mental distress
$200,000 as exemplary damages
All of which fell into the hands of Sharon Tate’s parents because Roman had signed Sharon’s estate (which was miniscule) to Paul Tate. So, as the Tate family is grieving and dealing with the emotional devastation of loosing Sharon—before the killers were even apprehended—they had to deal with this asshole’s lawsuit and worry that they might loose every cent they ever had.
Nice guy, huh? Hope that clears things up Audio.

Heaven said...

I read the same thing about Rudi suing Roman for damages.. It was in the newspapers that I found in my parents attic on the case.

It was never mentioned in Bugliosi's book, therefore most people don't believe it..
But tis true, it did happen...

=)

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Thanks Shores, that's exactly what I asked for: the source (in order to know whether it was true). Beautiful.

But, it also was reported in one of the books, anyone know which one?

shoresendz said...

Joe Said: If you were truly a friend of Rudi's, if you truly knew him, you'd know he will never, ever, tell what he knows. Why do you think he's been quiet -- and relatively destitute -- all these years when he could've made a fotune by talking? C'mon, Col, you're smart. Figure it out.
------------------

Joe, Your message implies that you do truly know Altobelli…So…do tell all your secrets won’t you cause I ain't nearly as smart as the Col and need a little guidance.

Dok said...

shoresendz said...
My two cents? I always wanted to know what the guy, who sued a down and out victims’ family, looked like. And now, thanks to the Col, I can put a face to the name on the lawsuit against Sharon Tate’s estate that claimed his carpet and furnishings and other personal items were damaged beyond repair due to the victims’ inconsiderate blood-letting. The guy’s an irredeemable scumbag.

11:24 AM


Dito! Well said.

Heaven said...

I believe read that the case was thrown out as being ridiculous...

I'd have to go back and read it again to be sure of the exact wording...

=)

agnostic monk said...

Everyone calm down and be nice to each other or Linda is going to get upset!!!!

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Audio Magic said...
Excuse me for the typo. I didn't know they offended you. This isn't a legal document it's a blog. I don't speak legalese. Are you going to sue me now? It is my opinion that just because something is legally documented does not mean it's true. By the way, you still READ it. Charles Manson was never proven to have killed anyone either, but he got the DP anyhow. It's on record. It's friggin' documented.

Ummm yeah, this was a legal document and yes it was true..
As for Manson getting the DP for not killing anyone, he did kinda confess to killing Shorty. Last thing you blat before a jury when you're being tried for murder is that you cut someones head off..

Jurys are funny that way..

=)

Heaven said...

catscradle77 said...
Thanks Heaven. I didn't know whether or not the guy actually won-it is really kind of sick, and then saying he felt the love in the house made me shake my head..


I agree... Rudi claimed to have cared about Sharon.. This was an asshole thing to do to her family so soon after her death...

agnostic monk said...

Heaven said...
>>>I agree... Rudi claimed to have cared about Sharon.. This was an asshole thing to do to her family so soon after her death...<<<<

that man's got a lose screw or two. the house meant "love" and "safety" to him even after Sharon was gutted like a fish on his carpet. and then this lawsuit thing. what the hell is wrong with people?

where does being an asshole cross over into pure mental illness?

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Audio Magic: It is my opinion that just because something is legally documented does not mean it's true. By the way, you still READ it. Charles Manson was never proven to have killed anyone either, but he got the DP anyhow. It's on record. It's friggin' documented.

AM,

You've demonstrated some real, um, unusual logic there. So even though there are trial transcripts from the Manson case they don't prove a trial actually occurred? Hmmm. I think the question, or my question, was whether or not Rudi sued RP, and, to discover the answer to that I asked Shores where it was reported. He did better than providing the source for the report, he provided the primary source of the event: the legal document. You can disbelieve that Manson was guilty of first degree murder but you'd be pretty hard pressed to prove that the old boy wasn't CONVICTED of first degree murder. The same way you are gonna have a tough time disproving that RA sued RP.

Salem said...

Charles Manson was never proven to have killed anyone either, but he got the DP anyhow. It's on record. It's friggin' documented.

True Audio:)
also Manson did NOT kill shorty shea.
He didnt like Shorty. He didnt like alot of people, but that didnt mean He Killed them.
and shortys head was cut off if I recall?

Salem said...

guess the prisons let the inmates watch 20 /20.
ummm
?

Salem said...

True Audio:)
also Manson did NOT kill shorty shea.
He didnt like Shorty. He didnt like alot of people, but that didnt mean He Killed them.
and shortys head was cut off if I recall?
sorry
sp error*
shortys head was NOT cut off.

Salem said...

Audio
I will always beleive CM over others, he has no reason to lie,he has nothing to gain or lose, he isnt ever gonna get out.and Charles Manson says
HE NEVER KILLED ANYONE!

Natalie said...

Audio said:"He was cookin up drugs in the Polanski home. He took that chance??? Roman himself said that he should have kicked Voyteck out of his house. Just saying... "

Prior to coming to the US, Voyteck defected from Poland to seek a better life in the US, viewing US citizenship as his 'Gold Card' for a better life of much great opportunity for himself.

Getting caught engaged in criminal activity(which would have occurred) would have cost Voyteck 10 years jail time in California, deportation back to Poland; followed by being imprisoned for his defection and spending another 10 years or so, in the harsh conditions of a hellish labor camp, until Solidarity brought down communism in 1989.

Why would Voyteck allow his left hand to cut off his right hand? He defected from Poland because he wanted a better life in America and to become a US citizen. He tended to be very determined in reaching his goal.

It would be an utter contradiction for Voyteck to play "Russian Roulette" by taking a chance and throwing his life and future away.

He was a writer and artisan and highly prone to being tempremental - but so is Roman and for that matter, Jack Nicholson. None of which would win "Mr. Congeniality" awards.

Voyteck's determination to become a US citizen and have a better life in America was something he was impassioned about and is clearly visible by his defection from communist Poland which led to his arrival in the US.

What is the death toll regarding those who tried and failed to defect? The Berlin Wall is a monument to those who perished trying to escape communism.

Voyteck risked his life to get out of Poland because he didn't want to stay there.

Risking a high-risk outcome that includes at least a 10 yr prison sentence in the US, followed by deportation back to communish Poland to be sentenced to hell in a forced labour camp until Solidarity brought down communism in Poland in 1989 - was not part of Voyteck's plan for a better future.

I still remain unconvinced Voyteck would play "Russian Roulette" with his life and the promise he had of a better life in the US.

Escaping the tyranny of the Polish communist regime is why Voyteck left Poland and why he wanted to come to the US indefinitely.

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>>Audio
I will always beleive CM over others, he has no reason to lie,he has nothing to gain or lose, he isnt ever gonna get out.and Charles Manson says
HE NEVER KILLED ANYONE!<<<

but he did admit to tying up the labiancas, no? when he told this to Diane Sawyer and she asked him something along the lines of "so you tied them up and then left knowing full well what they had done the night before at Tate's? What were you expecting to happen?"

His answer was less than forthright or even logical.

Something about "I dont live in the world of expectations, woman". Ok Chucky whatever.

Diane Sawyer looked like she wanted to reach out and smack him for being so obtuse.

Salem said...

He may have tied up hands but like I said..
Manson NEVER killed anyone.

Dok said...

Salem said...
He may have tied up hands but like I said..
Manson NEVER killed anyone.

4:36 PM

He still participated in their deaths.

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>He may have tied up hands but like I said..
Manson NEVER killed anyone.<<<

I guess it depends on what your definition of KILLING is. If he restrained people so that someone else could actually drive the knives into their flesh, well.....

Glasshouses said...

And it isn't his fault Crowe lived.

Salem said...

Audio Magic said...
Salem..That would explain the letter Charlie sent you to send to Susan maybe, so Susan would watch the 20/20 program and think of what Charlie said the night she got back from Tates home. "You stupid bitch, all u have done is sent me back to prison!!!"

4:33 PM

yeah, I think so.
also alot of calls were made last night to friends. ( collect calls)
:)

Heaven said...

"where does being an asshole cross over into pure mental illness?"

That, my friend, is a very good question!

=)

Salem said...

Monk says.Diane Sawyer looked like she wanted to reach out and smack him for being so obtuse.

well she should have maybe, He's been beaten all his life and treated worse than some animals have, so HIT HIM AGAIN!
ya think he's not accustomed to that by now!

Salem said...

Heaven said...
"where does being an asshole cross over into pure mental illness?"

That, my friend, is a very good question!


LOL
I know where , but we wont go there tonight.
LMAO

Heaven said...

Manson shot Crowe, with the sole intention of killing him. He was even convinced that he did kill him...

Manson then panicked because he thought the Black Panthers were comin after him...

Manson, up until the very second he laid eyes on Crowe in court, was still convinced that he had killed him...

Manson may not have killed the Tate/Labianca victims, but ole boy WAS capable of murder.

Manson "fans" will spend eternity convincing themselves that poor Charlie was unjustifiably sent to prison. Just don't bet the farm that Manson's hands are blood free simply because he says they are...
Manson is and always will be a master at manipulation.

What a very unique position Kanarek was in. Defending a client who said he didn't do it. Like that card has never been played before...

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>Monk says.Diane Sawyer looked like she wanted to reach out and smack him for being so obtuse.

well she should have maybe, He's been beaten all his life and treated worse than some animals have, so HIT HIM AGAIN!
ya think he's not accustomed to that by now!<<<

the point is that she was getting extremely frustrated with him as he refused to answer any questions in a cogent, straightforward manner. She was getting straightforward answers from Patricia and Leslie, but not from Charlie.

The sense I got from Sawyer's attitude during the interview was that she KNEW she was not talking to a psychopath. She KNEW she was talking to someone who had a modicum of intelligence and sense but someone who refused to converse as such, and who refused to own up to his part in making things turn out the way they did. He was just playing games with her and someone like Diane Sawyer is smart enough to see through it.

Heaven said...

Oh yes, for the record, I know that Shortys head was not cut off...

My point was, if Manson was worried about going back to prison, maybe he should have been more careful what he yelled in front of the jury..

Shortys body wasn't found until many years later. The jury didn't know Manson from Adam.. So in a nutshell, his little outburst was an admission of guilt in the eyes of the jury..

Manson hung himself... He has no one to blame BUT himself. Had he allowed his lawyer to defend him, maybe things would have been different. Not one person testified that Manson was not involved. The defense rested without calling one single witness...

Who's fault is that?

=)

Natalie said...

Audio "Not to speak ill of the dead. He didn't deserve to die for this, but frankly I find the dude a real sleaze. Sorry... "

Frankly speaking, he wouldn't be my first choice to befriend because there was a tough and rough hard-edgedness to him, largely attributable to how he was forced to cope and manage to survive in communist Poland.

Exposure to so much of the 'good life' could have easily misguided him and perhaps in death, Voyteck has since found true freedom.

agnostic monk said...

Heaven said...
>>>>The defense rested without calling one single witness...

Who's fault is that?<<<



You know Heaven you bring up a very interesting point that I've been wondering about a lot lately.

Recently I caught some old footage of Sandra Good and the girls on the corner. they were kneeling on the corner, it was literally the moment they heard the verdict announced over the radio (you could hear the radio news announcer relaying the verdicts), with tons of reporters and cameras all around them.

Sandy: "You've all judged yourselves poorly!"

Brenda: "Are you guys proud of a system where a man cannot defend himself? Are you proud of it?"

Reporter: "That was a 8 month trial"

Kitty: "Yeah, 8 months of PROSECUTION testimony!"

Sandra: "That was 8 months of prosecution testimony that convicted these people and you are next, all of you! There's a revolution coming very soon!"


My question is, what on earth were the girls bitching and moaning about? THE DEFENSE RESTED. The defense had an opportunity to continue to challenge the prosecution, but they RESTED. Why is Sandra Good blaming me, you, and The Establishment for that? Shouldn't she have been blaming Kanarek, Fitzgerald, and Manson himself for orchestrating the defense in such a way?

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

You said it exactly Monk...
It was everyone's fault but their own.. To this day, each one of them still blames something or someone, but never themselves...

The lawyers were only doing what they were told to do by their clients.. How many lawyers did Leslie herself go through?

The whole trial was a mockery, but it wasn't the fault of society, the media, the jury or the court itself. The girls acted like complete idiots.. All Manson had to do was nod and they'd jump up and do something stupid..

Showing the jury just how "controlled" they were..

Manson leapt at the judge, screeching like he was on fire, armed with a pencil he was probably hoping to jam into the judge..

Everyday there was some new theatric, something stupid they did before the jury...

But it's our fault they were found guilty LOL

Heaven said...

Audio,

What exactly is Manson's babblings supposed to prove?

That he didn't kill anyone? If so, maybe he should come up with a new approach.. Saying you're innocent is something a lot of guilty people have claimed..

Salem said...

wow
sanday was saying this to us LONG before the year 2000.
In the case of the Manson
Family the end supposedly was to save the world from nuclear war or
environmental destruction. Just as some people think a war to free
Kuwait from Iraq and to secure Mideast oil fields would justify the
lives lost, Good believes that a war against pollution and the
destruction of the Earth is a just war.

"I'm not against war. But I am against a war that doesn't serve
to rectify a wrong, but serves fear and money and power and self-
destruction. There's no good that can come out of this Iraqi
situation... The earth cannot sustain any more of this oil taking...
What it amounts to is warring to save a way of life, which is a way
of life that destroys life."

Good says that people need a scapegoat. They need to make Manson
the devil. But, she says, we're all guilty of complicity: Americans
lead corrupt, destructive lives. "We've all got blood on our hands."

Good says the acronym the Manson followers used was ATWA, which
stands for Air, Trees, Water and Animals, and also "All The Way
Alive." Good's war would be a war for ATWA, a fight for life, the
only cause she can see for war.

Salem said...

My point was, if Manson was worried about going back to prison, maybe he should have been more careful what he yelled in front of the jury..

maybe he should have yelled a LOT MORE!

Natalie said...

Audio "Voytek came to the US with Roman and some other Polish Jews and formed a group for Polish Jews who escaped communism. "

Voytek wasn't a Polish Jew as Roman is; he is Roman Catholic and buried at St. Josef's Cemetery in Lodz.

shoresendz said...

Heaven said: I believe read that the case was thrown out as being ridiculous...
I'd have to go back and read it again to be sure of the exact wording...

Audio Magic said: And the Altobelli suit was thrown out wasn't it?
--------------

No, the case wasn’t thrown out. It actually dragged on for a couple of years. The end result: Altobelli won. He received $4,350 in back rent and the Polanski’s $2,400 security deposit.

Heaven said...

Salem said...
My point was, if Manson was worried about going back to prison, maybe he should have been more careful what he yelled in front of the jury..

maybe he should have yelled a LOT MORE!

If you believe Manson to be innocent, what more would you have wanted him to yell? lol

Heaven said...

shoresendz said...
Heaven said: I believe read that the case was thrown out as being ridiculous...
I'd have to go back and read it again to be sure of the exact wording...

Audio Magic said: And the Altobelli suit was thrown out wasn't it?
--------------

No, the case wasn’t thrown out. It actually dragged on for a couple of years. The end result: Altobelli won. He received $4,350 in back rent and the Polanski’s $2,400 security deposit.


Thank you Shores, I wasn't 100% sure on that part.

=)

Salem said...

right on~!
You've got it stuck in your brain that I murdered someone. WHAT DO YOU WANT CALL ME A MURDERER FOR?! I NEVER KILLED ANYONE!? I DON'T NEED TO KILL ANYONE! I THINK IT! I HAVE IT HERE!

its stuck in most HUMAN'S brains that CM was a Boogeyman a Killer.Most feared man in the world! OH MY!
Maybe Charlie should have started a church. Salavation for all that have sinned. Doesnt matter that he goes to church and plays music in the chapel and gradens when he can... OH NO.. He's a KILLER.
owowoeoeoeowooeee

Salem said...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I’m crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

Heaven said...
Audio,

What exactly is Manson's babblings supposed to prove?

That he didn't kill anyone? If so, maybe he should come up with a new approach.. Saying you're innocent is something a lot of guilty people have claimed..

Like I said before if YOU arent *in* then you dont know.
And you will never know Heaven since all your info comes from books ya read.

Salem said...

Manson hung himself... He has no one to blame BUT himself. Had he allowed his lawyer to defend him, maybe things would have been different. Not one person testified that Manson was not involved. The defense rested without calling one single witness...
yes
Charlie took the blame for all of them! yet he killed no one..
he wanted to leave the ranch way before the murders. but everyone begged him to stay. He should have hauled ass back home and left. But he loved some that begged him to stay! And look what he got in return!

Heaven said...

Salem said...
Heaven said...
Audio,

What exactly is Manson's babblings supposed to prove?

That he didn't kill anyone? If so, maybe he should come up with a new approach.. Saying you're innocent is something a lot of guilty people have claimed..

Like I said before if YOU arent *in* then you dont know.
And you will never know Heaven since all your info comes from books ya read.


Ummmmm, nope.. I have a whole lot more than books...

I just don't go by what Sandra OR Manson say lol

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

catscradle77 said...
Shores said: No, the case wasn’t thrown out. It actually dragged on for a couple of years. The end result: Altobelli won. He received $4,350 in back rent and the Polanski’s $2,400 security deposit.

>>I wonder what his lawyer cost him?


I kinda wonder that myself...

Heaven said...

I really don't give a shit about Manson.. I think he's where he belongs..

That's my personal opinion. Others are entitled to theirs...

=)

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>Good believes that a war against pollution and the
destruction of the Earth is a just war....a fight for life, the
only cause she can see for war.<<<<

oh that's right, I forgot. Sharon's baby had to die in order to save the trees! Thank God we had Sandra and the Manson Family fighting for our trees! Otherwise Baby Paul would have been born and we know how devastating to the world that would have been.

It was a close one there folks. Two more weeks and Baby Paul would have been born and then who knows what manner of destruction the earth would have suffered as a result!

Thank you Sandra for saving the world from Baby Paul!!!!!

Salem said...

didn't Manson and I think Pat Krenwinkle go after Manson's real father who was found dead with 17 stab wounds. It was in the papers. I think it was during a trip to Kentucky? (Not sure) but somewhere in the south east..

yeah Audio
Manson and some left and went to Ala. to visit Pat's mom. Some Hippie types were seen in and around Ashland Ken. where Darwin Scott was stabbed to death.

Heaven said...

I'm just curious, but isn't it better to get information on Manson regarding his innocence from someone who isn't biased?

Sandra is in love with Manson, she'd follow him off a cliff.. So of course she'd say he did nothing wrong...

=)

shoresendz said...

Does anyone have a logical explanation why, why, why, Manson would shoot Crowe, who he believed dead…and leave two witnesses alive to later testify against him?! Always seemed very suspect to me, especially since it was supposedly Bryn Lukashevsky, (SP?) Brian Wilson’s friend, who told Wilson and Melcher about it—and yet, if Bryn was so freaked out by the shooting, why then, was he hanging around Spahn AFTER Crowe was shot to be arrested with the rest of the gang during the August 16th raid?

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>>Like I said before if YOU arent *in* then you dont know.
And you will never know Heaven since all your info comes from books ya read.<<<<


Salem why do you talk like this? *IN*? You sound like you're describing a high school clique.

Salem said...

Thank you Sandra for saving the world from Baby Paul!!!!!

no Monk
thank tex and Susan and Pat for that!

Heaven said...

agnostic monk said...
Salem said...
>>>>Like I said before if YOU arent *in* then you dont know.
And you will never know Heaven since all your info comes from books ya read.<<<<


Salem why do you talk like this? *IN*? You sound like you're describing a high school clique.

I think it's because she talks to Sandy, and writes to Manson.. Who are both biased about his innocence lol

Salem is most welcome to her opinions....

=)

Salem said...

heaven.. That he didn't kill anyone? If so, maybe he should come up with a new approach.. Saying you're innocent is something a lot of guilty people have claimed..

maybe the fact that HE wasnt even there when the murders occured says somethng! ya think???????

Salem said...

Salem why do you talk like this? *IN*? You sound like you're describing a high school clique.

maybe I should say the Real Wheel then...make any difference?

agnostic monk said...

Salem said...
>>>>Thank you Sandra for saving the world from Baby Paul!!!!!

no Monk
thank tex and Susan and Pat for that!<<<

Salem I dont want to have to type in the quote of Sandy's from a not-too-old documentary where she emphatically, beyond a doubt, describes how she, and all her friends, felt that the deaths of the people at the Tate house were totally justified.

Here's just a small snippet: "If these people in Hollywood had to go, then so be it. It made sense to me. It made sense to all of us. In war, sometimes killing is necessary."

Thank you Sandra, for saving us!!!!

Heaven said...

Salem said...
heaven.. That he didn't kill anyone? If so, maybe he should come up with a new approach.. Saying you're innocent is something a lot of guilty people have claimed..

maybe the fact that HE wasnt even there when the murders occured says somethng! ya think???????


Nope, cause he was at the LaBianca's, tied them up and gave his instructions to Tex on what he wanted done. He told him to make it look like Hinman and the Tate house..

So he was there... He was only hoping that leaving before the murders took place would save his ass...

Heaven said...

Salem said...
Salem why do you talk like this? *IN*? You sound like you're describing a high school clique.

maybe I should say the Real Wheel then...make any difference?

If being *in* means associating with people who lie, threaten, steal and murder, I'm glad I'm *out* lol

=)

Heaven said...

Audio Magic said...
Heaven said...
You said it exactly Monk...
It was everyone's fault but their own.. To this day, each one of them still blames something or someone, but never themselves...

The lawyers were only doing what they were told to do by their clients.. How many lawyers did Leslie herself go through?

The whole trial was a mockery, but it wasn't the fault of society, the media, the jury or the court itself. The girls acted like complete idiots.. All Manson had to do was nod and they'd jump up and do something stupid..

Showing the jury just how "controlled" they were..

Manson leapt at the judge, screeching like he was on fire, armed with a pencil he was probably hoping to jam into the judge..

Everyday there was some new theatric, something stupid they did before the jury...

But it's our fault they were found guilty LOL

5:27 PM

-----
Manson was put on medication in Vacaville, (or Pelican Bay)..for mental illness...I still wonder why all of them weren't put in a institution, and put on medication for life. Or deprogrammed if they were doing what Manson told them to do if he was insane. Why wasn't there an insanity defense. People get off all the time by reason of mental disease or defect.


Because they were not ruled to be mentally unstable, or insane. They were all interviewed by psychiatrists and were found competent...

Tex tried the insanity thing for his trial. He was a good actor, but it didn't work...

=)

Heaven said...

Salem said...
Heaven said...
I really don't give a shit about Manson.. I think he's where he belongs..

That's my personal opinion. Others are entitled to theirs...


Ironic,,,as I am sure CM gives a shit about some of us. But in his letters he writes about how pissed he is about Preists molesting kids, and he writes how children should be taught to live off the land and get away from computers and video games. Get back to the Farm*
He has a group NOW taking courses to help get his message out.
Nuff said.....
think as ya wish.

Well, all I can say is he must be realizing his own immortality. Being he's 71 years old, he realizes that he can't live forever. Might as well convince a few people he's just a good ole boy before he goes lol

=)

Salem said...

Manson was put on medication in Vacaville,

He wrote about that Audio..He was afraid to eat his food because he had found glass and other objects in his meals. SO of course they call him NUTS and put him on meds. Then when he doesnt eat, they say depression, and give him more meds. ;(
one thing tho, his handwriting was alot more legiable in Vacaville than any other place he has written me;)

Heaven said...

I am confused by one very small thing, well two actually...

He wants children to get off computers, but if they do, they won't be able to visit his ATWA site that he has one of his "children" running online for him...

Second, how does he propose to "get his message out"?
Something tells me he'll need his children to use a *gasp* computer LOL

=)

Salem said...

Heaven says Nope, cause he was at the LaBianca's, tied them up and gave his instructions to Tex on what he wanted done. He told him to make it look like Hinman and the Tate house..

So he was there... He was only hoping that leaving before the murders took place would save his ass...

he GAVE Tex instructions to KILL???
or to find something??? Tex was in charge..he was in the house .Not CM.

Salem said...

He wants children to get off computers, but if they do, they won't be able to visit his ATWA site that he has one of his "children" running online for him...

he has no ATWA site.

Salem said...

Sandra is in love with Manson, she'd follow him off a cliff.. So of course she'd say he did nothing wrong...
ummmm
so is (RED)Lynn, so shes crazy also?

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

According to Manson's own admission, he was at the LaBianca's and tied them up, along with his buddy Tex...

He says he went back out to the car, telling Leslie, Tex and Patricia....
"Do it good. Make sure that it's done so the pigs will put it together with Hinman and that pad last night. We're going to find another house. When you finish up, hitch hike back to the ranch and we'll see you there."

This is Manson's own confession. I'm sorry if his memory is now a bit muddled since he is considered elderly. But that is what he confessed to saying...

37 years behind bars, most of it spent in a place called "the hole" would probably give one plenty of time to think up a new story lol

Heaven said...

Salem said...
He wants children to get off computers, but if they do, they won't be able to visit his ATWA site that he has one of his "children" running online for him...

he has no ATWA site.

Ummm, when I made that comment a month or so ago, you quickly corrected me. Saying that Sandra is still running the site... Has that changed now? Cause I had heard she was no longer doing it, but you assured me that she was...

Heaven said...

Audio Magic said...
Heaven said...
Because they were not ruled to be mentally unstable, or insane. They were all interviewed by psychiatrists and were found competent...

Tex tried the insanity thing for his trial. He was a good actor, but it didn't work...

=)

6:21 PM
--------
Look what you just said about their behavior, Heaven. Wasn't it obvious that they were not competent. Shrinks deciding who's insane bugs the shit outta me. Maybe they didn't have the DSM IV back then, but look up that behavior in the book now and that's freakin' crazy! Plus, Judge Older wouldn't allow Charlie to assist in his own defense, meaning Manson wasn't competent.The girls behaving like lunatics says insane to me. Next to the word Insane in Websters Dictionary should have Charlie's picture next to it. Tex was scrambled and insane. Drugs can kick start major insanity if you have a propensity in that direction in the firts place. Tex and the rest all showed symptoms of some sort of mental illness. So the shrinks have the last word on whats sane or not? Psychiatry isn't even considered an exact science. Plus they have a very high suicide rate.


It was only obvious that they could act like idiots.. Tex tried the same game, granted he didn't use theatrics, but it didn't work for him either.

To this day, no one in this case has ever been found to be mentally unstable or insane. And they see shrinks all the time...

Little too late now for them to be claiming insanity...

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salem said...

Thank you Sandra, for saving us!!!!

and thank you George Bush for all the men and women killed in this insane war you started in the name of OIL!!!!!!!!!
peaceplease.com

Heaven said...

Salem said...
Sandra is in love with Manson, she'd follow him off a cliff.. So of course she'd say he did nothing wrong...
ummmm
so is (RED)Lynn, so shes crazy also?


I never said any of them were crazy...

=)

Heaven said...

I'm rather curious.. Anyone know who's running this site?

http://www.mansondirect.com/

Salem said...

That's rather one sided thinking, is it not?

Why do you consider being "In" as a bad thing? If people share the same beliefs or visions about life, who are we to be judgemental?

thank you Savage, hope you have a nice night.
Peace

Salem said...

He says he went back out to the car, telling Leslie, Tex and Patricia....
"Do it good. Make sure that it's done so the pigs will put it together with Hinman and that pad last night. We're going to find another house. When you finish up, hitch hike back to the ranch and we'll see you there."

umm
sorry i have never read that.

Heaven said...

Salem said...
That's rather one sided thinking, is it not?

Why do you consider being "In" as a bad thing? If people share the same beliefs or visions about life, who are we to be judgemental?

It kinda has to be one sided, I'm not going to consult them before offering my opinion lol

I personally wouldn't hang around with people who were capable of such things.. It's just not who I am or what I believe in...

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Salem said...
He says he went back out to the car, telling Leslie, Tex and Patricia....
"Do it good. Make sure that it's done so the pigs will put it together with Hinman and that pad last night. We're going to find another house. When you finish up, hitch hike back to the ranch and we'll see you there."

umm
sorry i have never read that.

I'm sorry about that, but just because you've never read it doesn't mean he didn't say it...

=)

Salem said...

Heaven says Ummm, when I made that comment a month or so ago, you quickly corrected me. Saying that Sandra is still running the site... Has that changed now? Cause I had heard she was no longer doing it, but you assured me that she was...

NO!I did NOT! That site was taken over by someone. (ST Cyane) Peter Wentworth) Sandy isnt running a site, George did most of the work when the site was up and running. that was 6 years ago.( I think)
George nor Sandy have a website. I did say that Sandy and George DO visit certain sites.
The only site I know that has any (credible)info about CM is Manson Direct.com.

Heaven said...

Audio Magic said...
Heaven, it's not our fault they were found guilty and I didn't say that. I just think that Bugliosi coached witnesses and his Helter Skelter theory is totally insane, but Bugliosi did what all of Hollywood wanted. He put them away. He did his job. I don't buy it. I think the killings had a more realistic reason such as drugs and money. Al Springer, Paul Watkins, Steve Grogan, and Danny DeCarlo weren't exactly models of stability, nor was Linda Kasabian.


None of them were "stable", if they were, they wouldn't have needed Manson as much as they did...

But there's a difference between being unstable and being insane..

None of the killers want you or anyone to label them as "mentally ill".. That would defeat the whole purpose they have at parole hearings.

Pretending to be insane is a very common thing to those facing execution. That's why the courts have professionals in place to make that determination.

I personally think Andrea Yates was VERY mentally ill, but experts say she isn't.. That she knew exactly what she was doing. They're in a much better place to make that diagnosis than I am...

Heaven said...

Salem said...
Heaven says Ummm, when I made that comment a month or so ago, you quickly corrected me. Saying that Sandra is still running the site... Has that changed now? Cause I had heard she was no longer doing it, but you assured me that she was...

NO!I did NOT! That site was taken over by someone. (ST Cyane) Peter Wentworth) Sandy isnt running a site, George did most of the work when the site was up and running. that was 6 years ago.( I think)
George nor Sandy have a website. I did say that Sandy and George DO visit certain sites.
The only site I know that has any (credible)info about CM is Manson Direct.com.

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if she's running any sites or not. My point was, without the computer, Manson isn't going to have an easy time of getting his message out......

=)

Salem said...

Did you see how badly Leslie was doped up for her parole hearing in 2002?

yes I did Savage.
I agree with how meds are mis used.
As a teacher I use to see kids at school doped to the MAX just to keep them quiet. Lines of little kids on Ritalin or Prozac. It was very heartbreaking.

closed blog said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Savage,

I'm not even going to touch the subject of Susan with you... lol

I'll stand behind my earlier comment. It's been 37 years and it's a little late now for anyone to use the insanity defense...

=)

Salem said...

Heaven said...
I'm rather curious.. Anyone know who's running this site?

http://www.mansondirect.com/

6:51 PM

:)
I hope its been updated cuz Charlie is using the phone, so he is out of the hole.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 557   Newer› Newest»