Wednesday, May 10, 2006

Nam Ryenge Ho Part FIVE



So let's finish this study shall we?

7- Mission goes horribly awry. Gary tied up and beaten. Charlie called. 8- THIS IS THE POINT WE NEED TO SPEND TIME ON, CLASS- Charlie shows up and makes shit worse, lopping his sword at Gary's face.

Okay now, if Charlie sent you, then indeed you need to call him when the money isn't flowing. But of course, Charlie didn't send you to KILL the guy. Just to get his money. Maybe he expected a contribution, lol. Maybe he expected you to rough him up. Who knows.

But it doesn't go as expected. What does? And you have to call the older, supposedly wiser, Charlie. Charlie grabs some heavy artillery, and the near psychopathic Bruce Davis, and heads over to Topanga. (This easily took an hour or more, kids. Would have loved to hear the discussion in the meantime)

Girls are probably wandering vacantly, okay. But Bobby is obviously hoping the big man is gonna sort this shit out for him.

By ALL accounts, Charlie marches in and NOT BY ACCIDENT takes a sword and lops off the side of Hinman's face. Almost the whole ear.

Okay kids, WTF? Pretend to be Bobby. You were sent to get money for one of two reasons. Doesn't matter. What the hell is Errol Flynn doing coming out here making shit worse? And worse still, he now tells you to handle it? And leaves?

We are obviously missing a piece here by anyone's logic.

- You don't call Charlie unless you expect him to help.
- Then he doesn't help he worsens everything and tells you to handle it.

BTW, Charlie does not tell Bobby as I understand it to kill Gary at all at this point. Depending on who you believe, he does after a later phone call.

So- WHY DID BOBBY BOTHER CALLING CHARLIE?


[The Col is back from the frozen North. For good. As a disabarred attorney I might be needed later this year elsewhere. But no more freezing. Thanks to everyone for the support. And those of you in the comments- if I have to regulate or track you down then I will. I will not have regular smart people like Heaven or Agnostic Monk run down by people who are too pussied to deal with logic and reason. You don't like Salem, then skip her posts like I do. If you want to attack join Turner. I hear he has ten readers and two brains between them. Behave and we can all learn from one another, y'hear.]

47 comments:

Joe said...

Col: "Charlie grabs some heavy artillery, and the near psychopathic Bruce Davis, and heads over to Topanga. (This easily took an hour or more, kids. Would have loved to hear the discussion in the meantime)."

An "hour or more"? C'mon, Col., you know better. That's a 15 mile trip, not even a half hour in the car (exactly 15 miles, in fact, according to Google maps).

Well, if you're gonna dissect this crime you've got to have all the details right.

Also, seems simple to me: CM came to frighten Hinman and he did. Then left. Where's the mystery?

Pristash said...

Yeah, I'd be frightened too if somebody slashed half my face off...ok, even half my ear, but once that deed was done, it was the point of no return, right? If they let him live, would Hinman just have been willing to let everything lie and go on as if nothing had happened, even if he could only hear half as well as he used to?

No, I think the Col is on to something....the key here may just be that it's not the Tate-LaBianca Murders...it's the Hinman-Tate-LaBianca Murders....

ColScott said...

Joe
I respectfully beg to differ- you must come to LA sometime.
Freeways that exist now did not then.
He had to grab the swrod, grab a car and grab Davis.
I'm thinking it took more than an hour actually. There is no straight cut over there.

ColScott said...

pritash

Hinman is where it all begins.

No Hinman, we never heard about Charlie Manson.

This is truth.

Dok said...

Hey Joe, Have you ever been to the LA area? It's not an easy city to travel about, 15 miles could take a long time.

Heaven said...

Welcome back Col, it's great to have you home again!

=)

Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Col: Joe
I respectfully beg to differ- you must come to LA sometime.
Freeways that exist now did not then.
He had to grab the swrod, grab a car and grab Davis.
I'm thinking it took more than an hour actually. There is no straight cut over there.


Col, etc.,

I've done the trip many times, it's a straight shot down Topanga Blvd. with a slight swerve onto Muholland and then onto Old Topanga. Never took me more than 15-20 minutes.

Heaven said...

Yepyep,

Crowe was shot (according to Tex) on July 1,1969...
Gary Hinman was July 27 1969

=)

Deb said...

Colonel,

Yeah you are back. Are you getting this information from Bobby or from police files or what? Just curious.

Deb

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joe said...

Question: Why didn't Crowe send his cronies after CM, as CM feared he would?

Crowe knew where they were, his guys witnessed the shooting, CM had their drugs or money, and CM stayed at the ranch till at least early Sept. -- TWO months after he shot Crowe.

Another mystery.

uncle ace said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
meatwad said...

Has anyone deciphered the title?


man energy oh

manson energy oh

manson hinman chee pet oh

enrage yo hinman

on manson energy

angered my ho

paul is dead

home gary end


lol

agnostic monk said...

Charlie seems to have had a habit of coming in, doing some damage, taking off to let the "kids" get their hands the dirtiest (Hinman and then LaBianca), and then shrugging his shoulders like "what? me? why you lookin at me? I didn't kill nobody!".

That's not how I treat my friends.

Did he really did care about these kids or did he merely see them as a means to an end?

Although with Crowe he did get his hands the dirtiest so maybe my observation is weak.

(sorry Col if I'm getting offtrack - sometimes your questions bring up other questions that I get curious about).

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
highlandave said...

Col,
Why is Bruce 'near psychopathic'? It wasn't he who cut Hinman. Are you relying on sources like Hoyt (her trial testimony re time of Shea's death was false, if not perjurous) or White 'Davis is Zodiac' Rabbitt? Hoyt says Davis was more leader than Tex. History says different.

ColScott said...

Hoyt is completely unreliable.

Did you ever see the news footage of Bruce surrendering to police after living in the sewers for weeks.

You'd never ask me why again.

ColScott said...

The Title is not hard to follow wad.

It was Gary's dying words.

highlandave said...

No, I've never seen that footage of his surrender.
Maybe the exposure to industrial contaminents & human waste in the LA sewer pipes made him temporarily pyschotic.
I think he's fit to be free now.

catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
highlandave said...

Catscradle,
Do you know which documentary the TV footage of Davis & Nancy Pitman's surrender is from?
Maybe an explanation for him saying "Is that it?" is that he might have been paranoid about being included in the Tate murders bust.

agnostic monk said...

That footage of Bruce and Nancy emerging from the underground is awesome, truly a surreal moment for me when watching it, but more becuse of Nancy than because of Bruce.

Bruce comes off as just completely stoned and/or tripping his ass off. or maybe it was lack of sleep or something. Plus he had tv cameras shoved in his face and it's kind of hard to judge someone's personality under those circumstances.

I've scene other footage of Bruce back at the ranch where he kind of scares me. He has that real jerky quality to his movements that indicate (to me at least) some kind of mental problem. Sandra Good sometimes has the same kind of jerky movements in her interviews.

Dumb question but I wonder how Bruce did with the ladies; he had nice hair when it was long.

agnostic monk said...

highlandave said...
>>>Catscradle,
Do you know which documentary the TV footage of Davis & Nancy Pitman's surrender is from?
Maybe an explanation for him saying "Is that it?" is that he might have been paranoid about being included in the Tate murders bust.<<<

Dave the only place I've seen that footage is on Aes-Nihil's Manson 70. It's at the very end of the tape and it's well worth the wait IMHO. Nancy's performance is award-winning.

My take on the "is that it?" comment was that he was just trying to impress the girls that were crowding around him by being mysterious and "scary" for the reporters.

ColScott said...

could anyone privately email a name and password to the Turner board...he really doesn't want me on there so I think I should be... I promise NOT to use it to post and no one else ever need know

agnostic monk said...

ColScott said...
>>>could anyone privately email a name and password to the Turner board...he really doesn't want me on there so I think I should be... I promise NOT to use it to post and no one else ever need know<<<<

ooooh it's like a secret mission. it's like a CREEPY-CRAWL. I no gots one so I can't helps the Col out.

Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
catscradle77 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dok said...

Col, This is unrelated to the subject at hand, but it is very important for everyone to see, then pass it on to everyone that they know. Doing so, could save a child's life.

Please watch and pass it on:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/11925653/displaymode/1157

Dok said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dok said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dok said...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/11925653
/displaymode/1157

Yepyep said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Magick_Films said...

Finally

Joe said...

Hey Shores,

You find out any more about the possibility Lukas was arrested on August 16? Also, if you ever get that Altobelli case number I'll be forever indebted....

Audio Magic said...

Yepyep said...
I'm cooking up a theory and now I wonder: did the Hinman murder happen before or after Manson shot Crowe? My aching brain says 'after' but I'm not 100% sure.

10:25 AM

------
speaking of which...I'm very confused about the attempted murder of Bernard Crowe. Did Tex set up his girlfriend to be shot by Crowe because she was pregnant by Tex Watson, and went to Mexico and had an abortion which pissed off Tex...so he sets her up to be shot by Crowe who resembled a drug dealer and a pimp. Then Tex calls Charlie who goes there, a scuffle ensues and he shoots him in the stomach. I would think that you could most definately tell a BP from a pimp back then. The Black Panthers looked like what you see next to this post. Also, if CM thought he killed a BP wouldn't he have watched to see if it was reported on Televison. The BP's were all over the news back then. They had a Televison at the ranch If a BP was murdered it would have made the news, and wouldn't Charlie have known that he didn't kill a BP, or Bernard Crowe. And even if BC was a drug dealing pimp wouldn't the local TV news station have a blurb about it if he had been murdered? I just wonder if Charlie or Tex knew all along that no black panther was killed. Does this make any sense? Just saying...

Salem said...

Also, if CM thought he killed a BP wouldn't he have watched to see if it was reported on Televison. The BP's were all over the news back then. They had a Televison at the ranch If a BP was murdered it would have made the news, and wouldn't Charlie have known that he didn't kill a BP, or Bernard Crowe.

I agree Audio. CM did keep up with the news esp after THAT shooting!
Crowe sure didnt look like a BP , not from what i recall in the 60's.

Salem said...

Did Tex set up his girlfriend to be shot by Crowe because she was pregnant by Tex Watson, and went to Mexico and had an abortion which pissed off Tex...so he sets her up to be shot by Crowe who resembled a drug dealer and a pimp/

Louella? seems Tex was pissed that she had a abortion, and set her up for a drug burn.

Salem said...

Terry M didnt wanna sign Manson up for record deal cuz he had heard manson shot a black guy.
so Melcher had wind of it.
ummmmmmm

Salem said...

Do I make sense? (Oh wait, don't answer that!)

alot of sense Yep Yep
But what do I know??

Pristash said...

The news did report in the days after that the body of a BP had been discovered in some park. Manson knew him only as Lotsapoppa and not his real name, so they assumed it was him indeed and his buddies dropped his body there.

Joe said...

Pri: "The news did report in the days after that the body of a BP had been discovered in some park. Manson knew him only as Lotsapoppa and not his real name, so they assumed it was him indeed and his buddies dropped his body there."

Which "news"? All I've seen (in Family, I believe) is that Tex -- and only Tex -- saw (or heard) a report on television. But I've never seen an actual documented report that a Panther was killed that week and dropped in a park.

Pristash said...

From Tex's book, "Will You Die for Me?":

We were still showing the money to Charlie when the phone rang. It was Luella and Big Crow, not surprisingly, raging mad. We'd already agreed that Charlie would handle this end of it, and I listened as he claimed that I'd left the Family several weeks before and that he didn't know anything about where I'd gone. It didn't sell. Charlie told us when he hung up that Big Crow said he knew I was at the ranch and if he didn't get back his money he was coming out with his boys and killing everyone at Spahn. Charlie believed him. He sent Sadie and me up into the hills with a sleeping bag and said he would deal with Crowe.

I heard the rest of what happened from T. J. the next day. He and Charlie drove into Hollywood to the apartment where Big Crow lived. Charlie took Randy Starr's .22 Buntline revolver with him and tucked it into the back of his pants. At a signal from him, T. J., who would be standing behind Charlie, was supposed to take the gun and kill the black man. But once they got inside, T. J. couldn't do it; he just stood behind Charlie, frozen. After a few minutes of verbal baiting back and forth, Charlie whipped out the pistol, pointed it at the towering black man and pulled the trigger.

Nothing happened but a click. Charlie tried again. Still just a click. Big Crow's white sidekicks started to snicker. Another click. Finally Crowe stood up, grinning: "You crazy! You come at me with an empty . . . ." Then the gun went off and Crowe went down, bleeding in the chest-dying, T. J. said. (The next thing Charlie did was turn the gun on one of the dudes who was wearing a fancy buckskin fringed jacket and demand he give it to him. When Manson was arrested months later at Barker Ranch on suspicion of "grand theft auto," he was wearing that buckskin jacket.)

At the ranch the next day, Charlie couldn't stop talking about how he "plugged blackie." We all assumed Crowe had died, especially when a report came on the news that the body of a Black Panther had been dumped near U.C.L.A. the night before. This made us a little uneasy, since we hadn't figured on getting involved with the Panthers, and Charlie got even more nervous when almost immediately it seemed that all kinds of blacks started showing up, renting horses. He was convinced they were Panther spies and he started posting armed guards at night and having us sleep scattered back in the hills. If we'd needed any more proof that Helter Skelter was coming down very soon, this was it-blackie was trying to get at the chosen ones.

Much later I learned that Bernard Crowe-who in fact never had anything to do with the Panthers-had not been killed, only wounded. His friends had taken him away and had lain low, fearful that if Charlie found out the Big Crow was still alive he might come after him again. He might have, but I doubt it, because very soon Charlie would have bigger fish to fry. Much bigger.

grimtraveller said...

No one has ever been able to find that news item ! Even George Stimson, in whose interest it would be to find it.
I think Tex started off an urban myth there, folks.