Sunday, March 05, 2006

Comments Splitting at The Seams


Last week's post has over 660 comments.
I go away and the Blog takes off?
What I like about this is that most everyone is being calm and rational.
If only Charlie and the Bug had both been the same in 1969 we wouldn't be here now.
There's a lot of detritus among the comments and I only made it part of the way through.
Here are my thoughts. I am the black and the comments are in red.

Charlie does go in to the La Biancas. So Charlie wants to make sure Tex and the girls get the right house and person.
Bingo. I agree. Very well said 60skid
If i'm not mistaken, wasn't the Labianca home creepy crawled again "after" the murders
I never heard that and don't believe it- it would be a crime scene- I had heard that perhaps it had been crawled BEFORE and that that was why Rosemary was wigged. Sorry SSN Could it be that CM met someone when he was in Terminal Island who was aware of Leno LaBianca's gambling debts.
And then waited two and a half years? Ummm I don't buy that.
The Labianca's were killed because there was no one at the Harold True house when Manson came-a-calling. I think that's a safe bet to say
Sorry SSN that doesn't make any sense unless you believe in the BUG and random killings. I do not.

The DA wanted Manson and Atkins at all costs.
I'm calling bullshit on Atkins- she had a deal and she completely fucked it up for herself. With that in mind, I think he stopped at the Pasadena house to talk to someone about what time the LaBiancas would be arriving home from their trip. He has the rest drive around the block so they won’t see that he’s made contact with anyone. Maybe Suzan LaBerge called to tell the Pasadena resident what time they were leaving Lake Isabella.
Maybe. No way to be sure but could be.. A friend of Suzan's?

After California abolished the Death Penalty, and all those on Death Row got life and became eligible for parole. Were any Death Row inmates paroled during that time period?


Your question is unclear. If you are asking if any people who were on Death Row who got their sentence lessened by the 1972 have been paroled the answer is yes as I recall... and one or two of them fucked up and got put back right away.

More in a while- dang you've been busy...




383 comments:

1 – 200 of 383   Newer›   Newest»
Heaven said...

LOL Where do you find all these pictures?

=)

60skid said...
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nellieoleson said...

savage national socialist
thanks for the info im in austin

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60skid said...

With that in mind, I think he stopped at the Pasadena house to talk to someone about what time the LaBiancas would be arriving home from their trip. He has the rest drive around the block so they won’t see that he’s made contact with anyone. Maybe Suzan LaBerge called to tell the Pasadena resident what time they were leaving Lake Isabella.

Well no one seem to be able to say any thing about who The Pasadena resident was.as I recall Linda K cound not find the right house.
I do believe Suzan LaBerge gave the tip off as to when Mom & stepdad were coming home.
Also Rosemary fear..I wonder about..The Tate murders were first reported to be big drug party. Rosemary was not in the Hollywood circle ..so why the big fear?

60skid said...

Savage, I used to work at the 2 World Trade Center building at one time in my career and lost a friend that i went to high school with, Anthony Rodriguez, who was a firefighter that died when the buildings collapsed along with a co-worker of mine, Elaine Cillo.

I am very sorry for the lost of your friends In 911 ..

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60skid said...

Savage,
If ever we needed George S. Patton, it's now.
I can agree with that.a good man

60skid said...

Savage,
I'm calling bullshit on Atkins- she had a deal and she completely fucked it up for herself.<

You have to remember that at the time Atkins was offered the deal, Linda Kasabian wasn't being shopped as the alternative star prosecution witness. Atkins was all they had to go on and Bugliosi was upset that Atkins was being given some kind of a deal for her role in what happened. But i think it's fair to say that the DA wanted Manson and Atkins real bad.

I agree with the Col. Susan messed the deal up her self. The Bug would have used her..but then she went back on her story and her deal

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60skid said...

Savge,
He would have, but he certainly didn't want to. He would have been more than happy to prosecute her along with Manson and the others and not offer her a deal.

Well that one time I agree with the Bug..I would not have wanted to use her my self. But she did blow the deal,

Audio Magic said...

Col. Scot said...If you are asking if any people who were on Death Row who got their sentence lessened by the 1972 have been paroled the answer is yes as I recall... and one or two of them fucked up and got put back right away.

Thanks Col, that was what I was getting at. Interesting..
Audio

Salem said...

I appreciate your kind words. My Ex lost an uncle as well,
Savage?
would u happen to live in the Catskills of NY?

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Salem said...

HEAVEN, 60'S AUDIO.EVERYONE...
WHATS YA TAKE ON BRUCE DAVIS AND PAROLE?

60skid said...
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60skid said...

Salem ,
HEAVEN, 60'S AUDIO.EVERYONE...
WHATS YA TAKE ON BRUCE DAVIS AND PAROLE?

On July 24,2005 The Col had a post on Bruce ..Here it is

Bruce Davis- my perception of him was that he was a hardcore badass.

I agree with The Col on that..I also think Bruce got away with other murders .

He also does the Born Again thing.
I am againist Bruce getting Parole

nellieoleson said...

bruce aka other murders
marnia habe

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60skid said...

I have read There probably is DNA evidence in this case.

If that were true...why would they not check out Davis & Tex..both are in jail.
They way I always heard it. Bruce was the real hardcore one of the men.

catscradle77 said...

Dunno...have written to Bruce..couldn't really quite figure the guy out...

60skid said...

Cat,
Dunno...have written to Bruce..couldn't really quite figure the guy out...

Why is that ? you mean he was strange?

catscradle77 said...

No, he seemed (seemed to me, so please no one go but he killed etc. for i really dont want to start an arguement)nice, sent me some stuff, and I really never asked him point blank about stuff...we talked about stuff, and I understand distrust of people and things but it was just...bland...kinda boring...no real personality type thing...maybe he is different in person..but his letters can bore the socks offa person down to their last pair...

60skid said...

Bruce, Is up for parole again this year. He was up last year also. How does that work ? Why do some of them ..get yearly and others its 2 years or 4 years..between hearings?

catscradle77 said...

Bruce got one or two votes for release the one year as well..I expected him to be this bad ass from everything I had seen and read but he really is mild mannered. (i know so was ted bundy under certain circumstances)

60skid said...

Cat,
I can understand they do have mistrust when you write to them. I also knew they are not going to talk about their crime.
Bruce just never seemed like he would be boring .
Are you for him getting out?

60skid said...

Cat,
(i know so was ted bundy under certain circumstances)
Ted could be very likeable at times

60skid said...

Tex, Bruce & Leslie have parole hearings this year.
I really do not see Tex getting out.

catscradle77 said...

I don't know enough of him to say whether or not he should be freed. The Bruce I know seems mellow, thoughtful, and has a beautiful wife and child he seems to care deeply for. But, I only know him under limited circumstances and a apple can become an orange under the right circumstances. So I can not say.
As for evidence for other crimes-I have not seen any that leads me to think he had anything to do with the Zodiac/Habe murders..if that is you Rabbitt, you went to the Zodiac bored screaming how you believe Bruce is the Zodiac, then recanted and now if it is you are back on the Bruce murdered others kick...please show me evidence he did, I am open for discussion..

60skid said...

Cat,
I do not believe Bruce is the Zodiac You also right ..there is no evidence for the other crimes. ..that I know of.

Heaven said...

The only thing that is strange about the Zodiac murders and Bruce Davis is, the murders completely stopped after Davis was arrested...

Salem said...

Cat,
I do not believe Bruce is the Zodiac You also right ..there is no evidence for the other crimes. ..that I know of.

I agree with Cat also.
He came to the ranch and said that there it was pretty satanic there,
I have always wondered what he meant.
He was CM's next in line, but yet he was never put at a murder scene..
We can speculate Pugh in London. But no eveidence as he says he(Bruce D.) was there for a Sceintology reason*
I think he has lived a low key life behind bars. I dont know what kind of prison record he has had as in, violations etc..would like to know if any ones has the info*

Salem said...

just a reminder
1970 Charles Manson released his album "Lies" to finance his defense.
this day in history.

60skid said...

Salem,
think he has lived a low key life behind bars. I dont know what kind of prison record he has had as in, violations etc..would like to know if any ones has the info*

Yes go to

http://www.internet.is/bret/manson.htm
He has all the parole hearings there .No he has not been trouble in prison.

GLH said...

When was Habe murdered? Who was she?

60skid said...

ghl,
Marina Elizabeth Habe


Marina Habe was the 17-year-old daughter of writer Hans Habe and actress Eloise Hardt. In December 1968, she was home on Christmas vacation from the University of Hawaii.

She came up missing Dec 1968 and they found her dead Jan 1,1969.
They never found her killer .. a lot of people think Tex Watson or Bruce Davis killed her..They lived close by her.

Deb B said...

She was the 17 year old daughter of a novelist. She was home on school break from Hawaii. Found off Mulholland drive in Hollywood. Murdered in December 1968. Stabbed to death.

http://www.charliemanson.com/habe.htm

GLH said...

Were they suspects before the Tate/LaBianca murders? I looked it up after I posted - I know, I should have done that first - and there was mention of a news article. Why would they have killed her?

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60skid said...

glh ,Were they suspects before the Tate/LaBianca murders? I looked it up after I posted - I know, I should have done that first - and there was mention of a news article. Why would they have killed her?

I do not think they were supects before Tate/LaBianca

Salem said...

SAVAGE
We can only pray that we will be out of here by then. <

Thanks to the almight bubba Bush,
if any one deserves a 666 he does.

Salem said...

COOL
THANKS 6O'S;)
http://www.internet.is/bret/manson.htm
He has all the parole hearings there .No he has not been trouble in prison.

GREAT!

Salem said...

1970 Charles Manson released his album "Lies"

GOT IT.

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Salem said...

I hope that Sandy held onto a few of those. The one that Lynette was showing off in one of the film footage clips is one of the original 2000 or so copies that were originally produced.

I AM SURE SHE HAS.
ALTHO SOME OF HER THINGS WERE MISSING WHEN SHE GOT BACK FROM VERMONT.

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nellieoleson said...

if that is you Rabbitt, you went to the Zodiac bored screaming how you believe Bruce is the Zodiac, then recanted and now if it is you are back on the Bruce murdered others kick...please show me evidence he did, I am open for discussion.. i was in la at the time, and i cant give names but it was bruce and tex who killed marina habe i have known this for a lot of years

catscradle77 said...

Okay-why Marina? What was the connection? That she hung out at the ranch and knew stuff is not enough of an answer...and how did you find out?

catscradle77 said...

And you were in LA...okay...I am waiting for the booming voice of Walter Cronkite to scream "ANd you were there" as verification...j/k

CreequeAlley said...

The only thing that is strange about the Zodiac murders and Bruce Davis is, the murders completely stopped after Davis was arrested...

Not so sure the Zodiac murders stopped after B. Davis was arrested. I seriously doubt Davis or the Manson family had anything to do with the Zodiac case.

I believe the book "Zodiac Unmasked" reveals who Zodiac was. Arthur Leigh Allen, according to the book. Now deceased. He was a troubled elementary school teacher who lived in Vallejo, CA with his mother, while she was still alive. In and around Vallejo is where some of the murders took place, plus murders in Southern CA, where he traveled to on occasion.

He was fired from his teaching job for fondling a girl (or something like that), then went on to other jobs, some being menial for an educated person.

He did time in Atescadero mental hospital, and as far as known, the murders did stop then.

He also had property up in Santa Rosa, CA, and a string of unsolved murders happened up there in the early 1970's. Zodiac himself said he would continue killing, but disguise the M.O., kill in new and various ways, etc., so no one would connect the killings to Zodiac. I believe Zodiac did those Santa Rosa killings, and perhaps a lot more that went unsolved.

catscradle77 said...

The Graysmith book has been in debate and the DNA from the envelopes known to be the Zodiac had been tested against Allen and no match...but still I don't believe Bruce or Tex is the Zodiac...

CreequeAlley said...

The Graysmith book has been in debate and the DNA from the envelopes known to be the Zodiac had been tested against Allen and no match...but still I don't believe Bruce or Tex is the Zodiac...

Did they extract any DNA at all? Even if they did and it didn't match Allen, I still believe the book might be right. Too many things point to him. It wasn't like he came out of nowhere either. He was a suspect in the original investigation. One of many suspects to be sure, but the average John Q. Citizen usually does not become a suspect in a murder investion for no reason. He becomes a suspect because something points to him. They just couldn't pin it on him at the time. If it WAS Allen, then he was cunning enough to avoid capture while alive.

catscradle77 said...

I do believe they did extract some from the saliva used to lick the envelopes or stamp or something along those lines...I cant see someone handing that type of letter to someone and going hey honey would ya lick this for me...
The zodiac murders site run by Voigt has an active and archived bored...it discusses this along with other stuff..

60skid said...

Nellie,
If you can not give names ..then why say it.

nellieoleson said...

ok heres what i said to howard davis, that when i saw the drawing of zodiac i thought it was bruce, thats what i told him on the phone, the drawing in the cronicle reminded me of bruce i never came out and flat out said it was bruce

nellieoleson said...

ok as for marina habe
while i was at spahn i overheard a couple blabber mouths talk about, and i was at spahn when abbie hoffman ed sanders, jerry rubin and there wifes were there to ride horses durning the trial, they all saw me, the cols board is vary public and i wont name the blabber mouths openly, so heaven just email me if u want me to tell u the names or im me on yahoo messenger whiterabbitt83 is my yahoo id or wrabbitt83@hotmail.com is my msn messenger or rabbitt836 is my aim messenger and ill tell u the blabbermouths

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catscradle77 said...

Ummm..Rabbitt..yes you did..go to Howard's site and there is a letter from you with the words to the effect you don't want me to ask Red and Blue about them sewing the Zodiac costume for Bruce and you dont want me to open that can of worms...so that means???? On Voigt's board-yes you named BRuce the zodiac..so yes you have said he is...
Lots of things get blabbed and are not true...why is this true about Habe? Details that prove this?

catscradle77 said...

Maybe I misunderstood that letter and it is Swaheli for "bruce looks like the picture in the Chronicle"?

GLH said...

Ok, but why Marina? There were many others who were associated with the Family and the Ranch. I just think her murder was a random one.

Heaven said...

I don't think Bruce Davis did it either..

nellieoleson said...

as for bruce, i was in london when the joel pugh murder happened, so was bruce,what i over heard the blabbermouths say was that bruce and tex had got her becouse she rejected tex and tex got upset at being rejected, as for zodiac,sandra was a seamstress and i have seen her sew, a hood, at that task force howard put a lot of pressure on me to name bruce,i personly dont think it was bruce ,i do say that the drawing in the chronicle looked like bruce,

catscradle77 said...

Ummm for being with the Family all this time, how come there is no photos of you from the trial or before??? Ummm-the task force was after you wrote the letter...I will go email Howard from the addy listed on his web site to get his side of the story..your story goes up and down more than a toilet seat..you were here, you were there, yet those who actually were there deny that you were around for that long or if that much at all...
Read the letter on Howards site-you meant it more than Sandy was a good seamstress-we all know the girls can sew-look at Charlie's vest...
Pressure-hell-it wouldnt make me call someone a murderer...you flip stories back and forth depending on wh ya talk to...and then cant prove shiat...
Read the old archived zodiac bored...your words are there and its not what you are saying now...

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catscradle77 said...

Link to Howards site and Rabbitt's letter to Blue..

http://www.zodiacmurders.com/rabbitt_1.html


Judge for yourselves...

60skid said...

Nellie,
You better watch yourself ..saying Sandra Good sewed the costume for the Zodiac.
Remember Bill Nelson

nellieoleson said...

hear me clear im not saying sandra good made a zodiac aznything, howard wanted me to say certain things on toms board and i did not agree to say so i stoped posting, howard said he did not pay me 700 bucks for a letter i got in prison but he did, as for family members saying i was not there, look at the ones who are saying it. sandra good and country sue, now if u ask kitty lutesinger u get a differt anser. kitty will tell u i was there

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catscradle77 said...

Any so, Howard wanted yo to say this-SO YOU DID? And the letter isnt to Howard it is to Blue..and if is not saying that about the costume-what is it saying???

catscradle77 said...

Okay-you said a bunch of stuff before you stopped posting----everyone go to zodiackiller.com-the archived board and read about it there...I am not making this up

60skid said...

Cat, I just read the Zodiac site ..humm

All I can say is yes White Rabbitt loves to loves to live dangerously

catscradle77 said...

So-which is the truth Rabbitt?

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nellieoleson said...

ok that letter to blue was wrote in prison when jb heath wrote me and sent me something sandra said on her manson web site and i answered her point for point

60skid said...

I really feel if Pat, Susan or Leslie knew anything about Bruce or Tex being involved in any killings .They would have told what they knew by now.
That would look real good to a parole board.

Also some of these cases there is DNA and I would think they would test Tex or Bruce by now.

nellieoleson said...

60skid yeah if they matched the dna from the marnia habe death scene it would match with bruce and tex

catscradle77 said...

you answered sandy point for point...and it brings up the costume and sandy making it...so you did say that

catscradle77 said...

And your evidence that they did besides "I heard someone blab" ..so we all should say "well he said he heard so it is true"..

nellieoleson said...

catscradle77 after all those years everything is hearsay but one thing does not change dna and i would bet dollars to donuts that tex and bruces dna are in the evidence they got

Jane Doe said...

Savage said:

"I think Tex is one of those sexually explosive types very similiar to what you saw in Hitchcock's movie "Frenzy". I believe that his own sexual hangups is what drove him to kill and Marina Habe and her death fits the description of a woman murdered by a psychopath.

I also believe that prior to Tex linking up with Charlie, that he was a Manic depressive type."


You're labeling Watson with clinical terms, but I thought you didn't put much stock into psychiatry and the medical profession in general because on the "Gateway Supermarkets Are No More" thread, you posted this:


"Understand something, in the medical profession, especially in the field of pyschiatry, theres no such thing as "Normal". Everyone, no matter how intellectual or how well refined they are has something about them that might raise a red flag to one of these trained quacks. All they do is say that you have some kind of dissorder and then they put you on medication. Its a scam and it goes on all the time in these places.

These medical physciatrists are not the so-called experts that they appear to be. I'd be real curious to see if they get research grants from pharmaceutical companies looking to push their new drugs on these people."


You were objecting to Atkins being labeled as an anti-social personality at the time. I guess you agree with psychiatry and the medical profession when it comes to the types of pyschological disorders they define, since you are willing to pin them on Watson, just not in respect to Atkins's diagnosis.

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catscradle77 said...

Dunno-hey man this girl blew me off-lets kill her tonight my friend...yeah okay-next week on "SpongeBob Psyedelicpants" Tex and Bruce cuz they are buds kill people...
I like donuts...and yes it is all hearsay, but if one goes around saying they have evidence, or so and so did this it is better to have proof-especially with your track record for not being truthful. (in other words Trix are for kids)

GLH said...

Help me out her, Heaven. You will know and know where it is documented. Why do these people think Tex killed Habe? Why wasn't he investigated for the crime, or was he? What connection was there between Tex and Habe? Was she raped? Did I read the article correctly that someone had tried to molest another woman in that vacinity before or after Habe was killed?

I also read about the Zodiac killer on a different website (had nothing to do with Rabbitt's letter) and the description given of the killer by the survivors didn't sound like it matched Davis.....I don't think he was the Zodiac killer.

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catscradle77 said...

Okay, I just don't get how Bruce and Tex even got linked together as a killing team...how did Bruce get dragged into this...and where did the info about Mama Watson come from? I am sure she didnt talk to Bill..and for some reason Bill went after Tex more than the others, so anything, unless documented, he says about Tex I view with suspicion.

catscradle77 said...

In other words, Bruce and Tex didnt seem that tight..

SiebenzumSterben said...

Talk. Talk Talk. Savage you sound more like a bleeding heart liberal everyday. I guess we don’t know what Susan was "feeling" when she did what she did. Maybe we ought to take a real hard look at ourselves before we judge this poor soul. Hey, maybe the Great Society that LBJ promised cut her welfare benefits and that’s why she turned to a life of crime. Maybe we just aren’t open-minded enough, we just aren’t tolerant… Maybe this is racially motivated or she was persecuted because she was gay….whatddya think? Ted Kennedy and Barbra Streisand would be proud of the defense you’ve been putting on for this waste case.
Just give me a .45 and a few seconds in the cell, and while you people sit around debating whether she was a victim of the judicial system I’ll take care of business. Shoulda been done 35 years ago. Bang. Right between the eyes. Line up Krenwinkle and Van Houten and Watson too. Bang. Bang. Bang. All loose ends are tied up just like that.
It don’t matter if it was 30 years ago or yesterday. If it was your daughter or son butchered up on that hill you’d feel differently. It’s like you don’t even see the crime scene, what was done to Tate and the others. They were people, man, people who wanted a future just like you do.
Atkins could have walked away that night. She didn’t. She could have said, no way man, this ain’t my scene and just walked back down Benedict Canyon. She didn’t. She could have called the cops to prevent the LaBiancas. She didn’t. There were a lot of things she could have done but she chose her fate. Just like Charlie said "I didn’t force these people to do anything. I didn’t have a gun to their head. They made their own decision." Tru dat.
They made their own decision. Now living with it ain’t so easy. Well, man, that’s a shame. It’s what she did and DIDN’T do that landed her in the cell. Now all the libs are coming out of the woodwork pleading for mercy and rewriting history to suit their own idea of what really happened, who did what and to who.
Shit, man, only people who know what happened are those who were killed, those who did the killin and God. And ain’t none of them talkin truth to us. So lets just drop the bleeding heart for susan campaign and get on with it.

Jane Doe said...

Savage said:
“There's a clear difference between Tex Watson and Susan Atkins. The very facts that are known about the murders show that Tex was a very cold, brutal and heartless killer.”

The point was that you were denigrating the psychiatric and medical professions when it came to Atkins’s diagnosis, yet you would use psychiatric/medical terms to arrive at your own conclusions about Watson. You pick and choose what you believe in with respect to those fields. As long as you can defend your position, that is your right, but I have yet to see you adequately defending many of your ideas about Atkins.

“ There's no doubt whatsoever about Tex's role in things.”

There is plenty of doubt surrounding Watson’s role in things, particularly with respect to who murdered Sharon Tate. Many people still believe Atkins did it.

“In Susan's case, alot of what she did, or claimed to have did, was fabricated to sensationalize Manson.”

True.

“Tex was a Murderer, Susan was a mischievous young girl in search of something that she was missing in life. She got caught up in something that she would NEVER have done on her own. Tex, on the other hand, didn't need guidance when it came to killing.”

Atkins had plenty of things missing from her life, including a supportive family. Her father’s abandonment of her while she was facing the death penalty was abominable. Watson’s, Krenwinkle’s and Van Houten’s parents all showed up in court willing to beg for the lives of their children, but Atkins’s father, according to Helter Skelter, refused. Her attorney called no one to the stand in her defense. That made me seriously wonder about the way she was raised.

I am very sorry that such an angry drug abuser was left to her own inadequate devices when she needed a strong figure in her life to keep her in line. I don’t hate her whatsoever. It’s pointless. She has suffered greatly for her crimes.

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Jane Doe said...

Savage said:

"Sieb, i don't condone violence against women .... and neither should you."

You didn't have a problem with Linda Kasabian being spit on.

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Jane Doe said...

Savage said:

"There's a big difference between spitting on someone and using a .45 on someone."

Yes, but spitting on someone is an act of emotional violence and you had said you didn't condone violence against women.

Jane Doe said...

Savage said:

"If Linda Kasabian had taken her
punishment like a big girl should have instead of sending Leslie, Susan and Patricia into a living hell, I would have felt much differently about Linda today."

In your opinion, is Kasabian more responsible than Manson for Van Houten, Atkins and Krenwinkle being in prison?

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catscradle77 said...

Okay-if that applies to Linda...it should apply to Ouisch who tried to trip out Babs...she never stood trial or got punished for that...shouldn't it aplly to Mary Brunner...who turned state's against Bobby for an immunity deal, ,then recanted during an hearing..then went on to testify at the penalty phase of Tae/LaBianca, then at one point she pled the fifth...the persecution tried to get charges against Mary Brunner for Hinman but the court of appeals found that basically even though she recanted and changed her tune, the effects were still the same, Bobby etc got imprisoned...so she got immmunity, told a tale and openly recanted in court breaking her deal and she got to walk...how come all is directed at Susan and Linda? Shouldn't Brunner be sitting in a cell like Bobby for years upon years???

SiebenzumSterben said...

Savage you really need not be ashamed that you are a closet liberal. It doesn't mean you are a bad person, just, well, different.
I have no problem with you being soft on crime, that's your choice. Are you advocating a double standard? (Another liberal trait) Are you saying that when women commit horrible crimes, we should not prosecute them, but when men do, we should prosecute? Wow. In your world every woman in America can butcher her neighbor and not worry about justice.
It isn't relevant what you think about me. Atkins, Krenwinkle and Van Houten are human trash regardless of gender. They were convicted and given the death penalty. I'm suggesting that a .45 would be quicker than the liberal justice you seem to advocate. With you in charge we'll be arguing 30 years from now if Susan really held Sharon down while Tex stabbed. I don't give a shit who stabbed who.
Why don't you go to Tehran yourself and tell Al Quaida about how Susan is a victim of American infidel justice? Hell, maybe you and Bin Laden will have something to talk about. I'm staying right here tho. Somebody has to have common sense.

Jane Doe said...

Savage said:

"No, but Linda should have been there with them."

Kasabian spared Atkins and Grogan from another potential murder conviction by not taking them to the apartment of Saladin Nadar, so why not give her credit for that at least?

60skid said...

Nellie,
60skid yeah if they matched the dna from the marnia habe death scene it would match with bruce and tex


Tex and Bruce are both in the FBI data base.since both are in prison.
I am sure this has been checked.

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catscradle77 said...

Mary did her time??? For Hinman? I believe one of the counts against Bruce is Hinman-he showed up and left but Mary was in the house for the three days. She testified and got a deal to save her ass-and then did a turnabout claiming she wasn't there and she knew nothing and then plead the fifth against self incrimination. Even if they had Bobby dead to center-she took a deal to save her skin, and didnt serve time for Hinman.
You said Mary recanted-Linda never did-so maybe if Linda recanted you wouldnt have such a boner for her? Its okay to be at a murder, as long as you recant what you said???
Its okay Mr and Mrs Hinman-she recanted so we let her go even though she cut a deal to tell the truth...and no Mary didnt help murder Hinman but she did nothing to stop it, just like Linda did nothing to stop the other slaughters...

Hey yepyep-no crucifying ya....you have a right to speak yer mind....

catscradle77 said...

And as far as snitching-it was Susan who ran her mouth first on everyone...but she recanted...

catscradle77 said...

And one last point-and then I am done-hey Savage-who else was at the Hinman house-Susan?????? And the story going around at one point was she helped smother him with a pillow when he wouldn't die and was gurgling...thanks Susan...

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catscradle77 said...

MMMM good....sorry we have ya hostage and someone hacked yer face..let me go get some soup and dental floss to stitch ya up...

LOL yepyep...

catscradle77 said...

Maybe if they made him some Shake N Bake-its Shake and Bake and I helped...at least someone would sasy they helped do something and stick to their story?

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SiebenzumSterben said...

Savage we probably would agree on many issues. Bush is destroying this county and is a national embarrassment. Enron Adelphia WorldCom Exxon Shell they are all crooked evil greedy bastards. Don’t count on elected officials to do the right thing they are all paid off one way or another.
I listen to Michael Savage sometimes, he’s not a RNC mouthpiece like Hush Bimbo, Hannity and all the rest. Savage sees through Bush’s B.S. He’s called him on PortGate, Bordergate and all the rest of the nonsense. How about Bush sitting there like an idiot listening to FEMA warn him about Katrina then he fires FEMA head? What a great leader.
But this doesn’t have much to do about Susan Atkins.
A political prisoner? You gotta be kiddin me. You are smarter than that. You must have some family or personal connection and are looking at this emotionally and not logically.
We lost a great woman this week. Dana Reeve died of lung cancer. Now this was a remarkable woman and I am deeply saddened by her loss. I feel bad for the boy, and it was terrible what happened to Christopher Reeve. She stuck with him tho. Can you imagine Paris Hilton or Jessica Simpson sticking to their vows if what happened to Reeve happened to their husbands? Right. Not in a million years.
But Dana stayed true. Not a saint, tho. The Reeves probably could afford house nurses to help with Chris, but Dana remained true and that says something about her character. If only we all could be as lucky to have someone like her in our lives.
And then we have Susan Atkins. Tell me, what has she done with her hand? What things has she done for others? Answer? Nothing. There’s nothing redeeming about her. I said it before I say it again. She could have walked away she didn’t. She could have prevented LaBianca she didn’t. Guilty. Where’s my .45? She gave up her right to life 35 years ago and it’s a shame that the liberal courts in this county are too damn afraid to mete out the sentence she deserves. We oughtta send that bitch to Texas. Along with all the rest, Charlie too.
What’s it cost a year to jail this human waste? $500,000 for all of them? We could be putting that money towards Head Start or some program for kids. They are the future. These assholes have no right to a future.

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60skid said...

I know I should shut up.Yes I am a Liberal.No I do not like what Bush is doing. But I do not think anyone on The Tate -La Bianca blog ..really wants to hear what my political views are.

No I did not faint about what. Siebenzumsterben said yesterday. Because there was a whole lot of truth to what he said..He just had the gutts to say it.

I agree we did lose a good women in Dana Reeves .. a women who showed a lot of people ..what she was made off and what a lady she was.

Siebenzumsterben is right ..all the money spent housing these people ..could be put to a way better use.

Heaven said...

All I wanna know is, how does every single discussion always come around to Susan?

60skid said...

Heaven , You are 100 percent right. That is why I do not even say her name in my last post .I feel this blog is starting to become
101 reasons I Love Susan !!!
I wish we could move on from her.

SiebenzumSterben said...

I'm sorry I have to disagree with the bleeding hearts who oppose the death penalty. And FYI, yepyep, scripture is full of stories about bad people who paid the ultimate price for their transgressions. I'm not sure if you are reading Jane Fonda's bible or the real Bible, but you need to get your facts straight before you go spout off your liberal viewpoints. You can try to transfer your own guilt to me by comparing me to Manson, but guess what? I don't care what you think about the death penalty or capital punishment. You think Tookie was a worthy human being, great. I don't give two shits about him. He didn't earn my concern about his pathetic life and the world is better off without him. What do ya think of those apples? Yippee, another one bites the dust! Too bad it took 20 years.
The reality of it, folks, is that Atkins isn't going to get a .45 to the cranium. Too bad. Hell, the libs may eventually turn her loose even. But she'll live in fear everyday of who is waiting for her around the next corner. She's probably safer in the inside, to be honest.
There are a lot of women who are abused in horrible ways Savage and they don't go cutting up people and murdering babies. I don't care about how bad her life was. It's no justification for what she participated in. It's sad. But what's sadder is that she turned all that anger on other people instead of turning it on herself.
Sure, this happens everyday. We got the wacko Iranian who drove the SUV on campus to "punish the American government." Another one who should get a bullet to the head before he hurts my kids or yours. But noooooo, the libs are going to put him in a nuthouse, and we'll pay for that, or jail, we'll pay for that. What a joke.
The worst among us are getting better treatment than children who live in our inner cities. There's a crime right there. If I have to decide between a child and Atkins or any of them, quess where I'm going to invest my money?

shoresendz said...

Man am I tired of reading about Susan Atkins.
Savage, a couple of quotes that I hope will quell your righteous indignation for those against Akins. First From Writers Ivor Davis and Jerry LeBlanc:
"At first, she (Atkins) said Gary Hinman had been cut up in a fight and she went to his house to nurse him...When it was inferred, falsely, that Bobby Beausoleil had already fingered her, Sadie loosened her tongue and let fly. She hasn’t stopped talking yet, but always, she tells just as much as has to be told, and, it will be seen, in whatever version suits her passing whim...A facial chameleon whose features can shift almost imperceptibly from impatience to engrossment, from unconcern to rapt attention, from irritation to mirth, and from coldness to glowing innocence. If Atkins goes free, it just might be by the recitation of so many divergent, unlikely stories, always within a fabric of truth, that a jury of her peers, if any exist, will have to conclude that either she or they have lost the power to distinguish between fantasy and reality."

Second is a quote from Atkins herself in 1971:
"We were each a different person every day of our life. In fact, we were three, four, five different people. We changed clothing, changed expressions. Just changes. You know, changes are changes. They’re not progress, they’re not regression. They’re just change."

That about sums it up, Savage. If you want to continue obsessing about Atkins and constantly derailing smart, inquiring minds trying to uncover something important, please start an "I Love Susan Blog" and leave us to the real task at hand.

Heaven said...
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Heaven said...

Shoresendz,

I completely agree. This whole Susan topic is really getting boring.

So far, this is the 3rd topic I've seen get hijacked to her.

There must be other parts about the case that are far more interesting than Susan.

catscradle77 said...

Amen to all that...makes me wonder if Savage aint the kid Suzie gave up-either that or just obssessed..
but enough of Suzie..

60skid said...

heaven,
My self I am done posting or saying anything about.. You know who.
You are good at this case ..please start something new.

Audio Magic said...

Heaven said...
Shoresendz,

I completely agree. This whole Susan topic is really getting boring.

So far, this is the 3rd topic I've seen get hijacked to her.

There must be other parts about the case that are far more interesting than Susan.

11:17 AM

Same here Shoresendz and Heather...It's been established throughout the years in many books that Susan was a murdering, blathering-mee-mee, who started a cluster-phuck that won't go away...At least not on here it won't.
>:(

SiebenzumSterben said...

For the past couple weeks it seems all i've been reading about is old whats-her-name, and when this thread went that way I felt like Albert Finney in that movie where he says, "Open you windows, and yell, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

SiebenzumSterben said...

A couple weeks ago I brought something up which no one really read? or responded to.
It's called "The Tangled Web of Charlie Manson" and the connections are amazing. I'll try again:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/wtc13.html

Anyone have any ideas about this?

60skid said...

Open you windows, and yell, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

Thank You .. I have had enought of that name forever.
I also do not care to hear that the world going to end in 2007.

Audio Magic said...

SiebenzumSterben said...
For the past couple weeks it seems all i've been reading about is old whats-her-name, and when this thread went that way I felt like Albert Finney in that movie where he says, "Open you windows, and yell, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

11:38 AM

LOL "NETWORK"... great flick! Not to sound anal but wasn't it some guy named Peter Finch who starred in it?

Heaven said...

It doesn't seem to matter what topics the Col starts.

All paths lead right back to Susan

Audio Magic said...

SiebenzumSterben said...
A couple weeks ago I brought something up which no one really read? or responded to.
It's called "The Tangled Web of Charlie Manson" and the connections are amazing. I'll try again:
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/wtc13.html

Anyone have any ideas about this?

How about a book...The Six Degrees Of Charlie Manson

catscradle77 said...

Col, oh Col, I hope you are feeling better...can we please have a new blog where certain people wont be mentioned unless relevant..
We miss you Col and need your guidance...

SiebenzumSterben said...

Audio magic
I accept your word on the Finch movie (not Finney), it's been awhile since I've seen it...
Re the seven degrees of Charlie, have you read this and what's your take on it? Is it BS, some truth, more true than we know or just plain out there. The connections drawn are amazing to me...

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Heaven said...

Savage,

I think you have made your views regarding Susan, and the fact that you know her personally, abundatently clear. I mean no disrespect to you, but you're sounding like a broken record.

Three threads now you have preached how wonderful Susan is..

It's been done, done and redone...

I don't see why you have to keep telling us over and over and over that you know Susan. You're starting to remind me of Debra and how she has to keep reminding everyone that she has all of Sharon's belongings..

=)

60skid said...

Heaven , Amem to that you right he does sound like Debra. I am not going to read or respond to any more posts that talk about you know who.

Also this is a Tate- La Bianca blog not a political blog . so I also not going to talk about that either.

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Heaven said...

I never touch politics lol

Heaven said...

"I know the human side of this woman, you don't."

Ok, you've told us.. We got it lol

I don't just "go by books".. I also go by what she says at her parole hearings...

What people choose to believe about Susan is their own business. Susan is safe and sound in prison (where she belongs) and doesn't really need a bodyguard.

If she was so concerned about what people were going to think of her, then she should have made better choices...

There are so many other interesting aspects to this case, Susan isn't one of them. My opinion.

"You'd be amazed at how much you don't know."

I don't want to know because I don't give a rats ass about Susan and her problems.. Again, my opinion...

She has become the focus of every conversation lately. Far more attention then I personally feel she is worth

*yawn*

60skid said...

"The Tangled Web of Charlie Manson"
I just read that it is very intresting..kind of werid how everyone ties together .
Am I reading this right Charlie sang with the Mamas and Pappas ?

Heaven said...

60skid,

Where'd you find that book?

=)

60skid said...

Heaven
Audio had a link ..very intresting

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/wtc13.html

Heaven said...

Thank ya kindly

=)

Heaven said...

Oh ok,I've been there before, many times...

Lots of very good reading...

=)

Audio Magic said...

SiebenzumSterben said...
Audio magic
I accept your word on the Finch movie (not Finney), it's been awhile since I've seen it...
Re the seven degrees of Charlie, have you read this and what's your take on it? Is it BS, some truth, more true than we know or just plain out there. The connections drawn are amazing to me...

12:27 PM

Hi SiebenzumSterben,
I read Adam Gorightly's book (sorry Col.) and all the tie-ins and conspiracy theories that are surrounding this case...and this seems like more of the same. I did read it, and there are a lot of coincendces here, but then we are talking about Hollywood, and actors and celebrities. Just like you can tie Kevin Bacon to any movie after 1980 you can probably tie CM or any of them to many things in the entertainment field at that time period. No matter how loosely. Spahn ranch was an old movie set. Shorty was an extra, and Kennith Anger knew Bobby etc...It's interesting but then after a while it starts to get too out there, for me anyhow...It's weird though, yanno?

catscradle77 said...

Okay-somewhere there is a discussion about the black book of Leno but I am tired so I am gonna throw this here-hope no one minds-according to Blundering Bill, Alice admitted she saw a book,and the one cop had it supposedly years later according to Bill. He went to the cops house to ask about it and the cops wife said get outta here, yadda yadda..whether or not it got checked into evidence or checked into someones pocket...dunno..but from what Billy said, it exists and the one cop has it....cant find my Billy book, so I cant name the cop...

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Pristash said...

Ok, back to the Leno's Black Book...to any cop worth his salt, and probably on the take too...the book would have to be worth something to somebody...perhaps with Mob connections? Not surprising it disappeared...as did all those videos from Tate too...if you believe that sort of thing...

Yepyep said...
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Pristash said...

The one video of Sharon and Roman making love, yes, but rumors ran rampant that there were others much more interesting that were taken by the cops and have never again seen the light of day.

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SiebenzumSterben said...

Yepyep,
In the spirit of peace we'll just agree to disagree about the death penalty. I could go on about religion but 60s kid makes a good point, this blog isn't about religion or politics. It also isn't about Susan Atkins. I am clear now where Savage is coming from and see the bias. I'm off my soapbox I swear.
I found the "seven degrees" fascinating Audio Magic, but it seemed too amazing to be entirely true. Angela Landsbury's daughter in the Family, hanging out with Charlie? It was very Buddhist, connecting everything together.
I also read that the cops put the pornos back in the house. I also seem to recall LIFE magazine did a spread when Roman went back to the house after the murders. Could one of the reasons for him going back be to retrieve the tapes?

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SiebenzumSterben said...

RIP SUSAN ATKINS

60skid said...

I found the "seven degrees" fascinating Audio Magic, but it seemed too amazing to be entirely true. Angela Landsbury's daughter in the Family, hanging out with Charlie? It was very Buddhist, connecting everything together.
I also read that the cops put the pornos back in the house. I also seem to recall LIFE magazine did a spread when Roman went back to the house after the murders. Could one of the reasons for him going back be to retrieve the tapes?

Angela Landsbury's daughter in the Family..I have heard this before..heard she had a signed paper from Angela giving her permission to hang with The Family. Has any one ever heard what she said about the about Charlie or the rest of them.

Sib The Book The Family goes on and on about the tapes .But If anyone ever got those tapes. I would think you would see them on ebay by now.
Look at the pictures of Sharon last day ..the police took those pictures and Bill Nelson & Lisa Stedmen ended up with them.
So maybe Roman did destroy the tapes ..seeing as how they never turned up anywhere.

Heaven said...

Savage said
"one stupid thing"

I guess I don't see how being involved in the mass slaughter of 8 people is "one stupid thing"..

Cutting people off in traffic is a stupid thing. Getting caught masturbating in a mens toilet, is a stupid thing..

If it was my daughter involved in the brutal acts that these people were involved in, I'd say she deserves to spend the rest of her life behind bars.

If someone did this to my daughter, chu damn skippy I'd be happy to carry out .45 caliber justice...

60skid said...

Heaven ,
I agree it was not one stupid thing she did .
9 people dead is one stupid thing..
I agree if it were my daughter or my son or my wife... a 45 is not out of the question. I often wondered ..why no one ever got her in prison.
I am going to call her "The Thing " from now on ..like she called Steven Parent. I can not even stand to hear her name anymore.
The Thing is were she belongs behind bars for ever.

60skid said...

I am sorry ever one..I know we will get 152 posts now defending The Thing

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Heaven said...

9 deaths would include the baby and Gary Hinman, who Susan testified to smothering with a pillow..

Susan said she murdered for 22 years, why should I believe she didn't...

These were not "stupid things"

Heaven said...

UGH!!

Look what happened, again it's back to Susan..
I won't mention Miss Crotch Rot again....

=)

60skid said...

Heaven ,
9 deaths would include the baby and Gary Hinman, who Susan testified to smothering with a pillow..

Susan said she murdered for 22 years, why should I believe she didn't...

These were not "stupid things

Bingo That where I get 9

SiebenzumSterben said...

Well, Heaven
Charlie on that TV show did say the whole thing was "just one psychotic episode" so I guess we shouldn't judge him too harshly either based on just that one psychotic episode.
I also suppose continually defending old what's her name could also constitute a "psychotic episode" or temporary insanity I don't know.
This is getting (getting? we are there babe) pretty comical---thus my RIP comment. If this is what its come to we are all doomed. This is exactly the problem you get into with the passage of so much time. People get to think up all sorts of reasons that so-and-so wasn't "responsible."
Yea, a .45 to the forehead (not the back of the head, the bitch needs to see it coming) shoulda been done 35 years ago. But what do I know? There must be something wrong with me if I think that butchering 6 people to death is actually wrong. Maybe I need to rethink this whole concept of right and wrong.

60skid said...

Heaven,
Look what happened, again it's back to Susan..
I won't mention Miss Crotch Rot again....

I know and like I said I am sorry..now it will be 152 posts defending The Thing with Crotch Rot

catscradle77 said...

Her inaction to help or run and get help puts her in the same boat as Linda, only Susan recanted..for some reason you make excuses for her but Linda didnt kill either...I still think you are her kid she gave up..for your arguments defending her are hypocritical while defending her actions your penalze others for the same actions...
So, what are the reasons only known to you that you jump to her defense so? She helped kill by not stopping it and I wonder what Sharon would say if she could speak about that night...

Heaven said...
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Heaven said...

Sieben,

It is kinda funny the way Savage comes unglued at the thought of anyone disrespecting his girlfriend.. It does make me laugh, I admit it lol

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catscradle77 said...

How is that a stretch?

Heaven said...

I think if any of the victims could speak, a completely different story would be told...

Patricia gives the only account that I truly believe..

She says that "what's her face" was stabbing the hell out of Voyteck when she went over and got Tex. Tex also says the same thing..

I don't believe much of what Tex says, but I do believe Patricia.. If she said that "what's her face" was stabbing Voyteck all over his body, I believe her...


Patricia has never tried to recant any of her story. She has told the same exact version of events for the last 37 years...

60skid said...

It is kinda funny the way Savage comes unglued at the thought of anyone disrespecting his girlfriend.. It does make me laugh, I admit it lol

I agree it is funny

Heaven said...

Well Savage, if you are the kid she gave up (which I don't believe) it would explain the kissing you and she do..

She did like to perform oral sex on her infant son...
Which is really frigging DISGUSTING!

60skid said...

You think that i'm Zezo/Paul?

That's a real stretch if you ask me, don't you think so?

I am starting to believe he is her son my self

Heaven said...

Ok, curosity peaked here, how are you all figuring Savage is the child of "what's her face"

=)

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60skid said...

Ok, curosity peaked here, how are you all figuring Savage is the child of "what's her face"
We maybe its the way he goes on and on and on...about her .
Savage is on Leslie visitor List ..but says so little about her. Just about The Thing.

Heaven said...

I think it's more that he's in love with her...

Why I'll never know...

LOL @ The Thing

Jane Doe said...

Savage said:
"I'm not Zezo/Paul. I never said i was and would surely not admit to that on a blog page, lol."

Here is a picture of Ruth Ann Moorehouse sitting with a small child:

http://www.charliemanson.com/graphics/moorehouse-1.jpg

I think the boy is Zezo, but can't be certain.

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Heaven said...

Some people are attracted to convicted murderers, I'll never understand it, but they are...

60skid said...

think it's more that he's in love with her...

Why I'll never know...

LOL @ The Thing
Hell I would go to e Harmony .com first ..before I would take up with The Thing

60skid said...

Whats married got to do with being in Love with some one .

Heaven said...

"SDA is a married woman."

That didn't stop you from slippin her the tongue.

Were your hands above the table or do I even want to know? lol

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Heaven said...

I'm curious Savage, how many Yahoo groups do you own that are dedicated to Spahn?

I count at least 5

=)

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Heaven said...

Gotcha!

Is that you in the picture? I assume it is...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpahnMovieRanchTrip1/

What could there really be there to photograph, the place burned down ages ago right?

I'm a photographer by trade, so I can appreciate it...

=)

SiebenzumSterben said...

CHRONICLES OF "STUPID THINGS" PEOPLE SAY

Chapter One--"I never killed anyone"


"You have to have real love in your heart to do this for people."

"Look bitch, I don't care about you. I don't care if you are going to have a baby. You had better be ready. You're going to die, and I don't feel anything about it."

"Wow, what a trip! I thought 'to taste death, and yet give life"

"Well, I thought you understood. I loved her, and in order for me to kill her I was killing part of myself when I killed her."

"We were going to mutiliate them, but we didn't have a chance to."

"We didn't put any hood over his head. That's what the papers said."

"Charlie is love, pure love."

"It feels good when the knife goes in."

END CHAPTER ONE. STAY TUNED FOR CHAPTER TWO,
"I"M JUST TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD."

Heaven said...

LOL Sieben..

That was funny!!

=)

catscradle77 said...

I'm not Zezo/Paul. I never said i was and would surely not admit to that on a blog page, lol.


My point exactly. But how did you get involved with Susan/Leslie and your friend in NM and why the fascination with the people and places they have been..hell if I got vacation or sumthing I wouldnt go to Spahn's maybe Myrtle Beach but not Spahns...just to ease my mind, how old are you and whats yer Zodiac sign???

Heaven said...

Here's a few more...

"That was the thing I saw in the car"

"She sounded like an IBM machine, so I just started stabbing her"

"More you do it, the better you like it"

"We wanted to do a crime scene that would make the world stand up and take notice"

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