The LaBiancos Scream In Pain

A cordial response -- from Charles Manson

By PHIL LUCIANO (pluciano@pjstar.com)

of the Journal Star

Posted May 23, 2011 @ 10:38 PM

Published on September 18, 1992 in the Journal Star:

I've been amazed by two facts regarding Charles Manson:

One of his first arrests was in Peoria.

There's scant information about his activities here.

In the Journal Star morgue, we have only two short stories about his local doings.

It's small potatoes compared to the Tate-LaBianco murders for which he's doing life at California State Prison in Corcoran, Calif.

The stories say that in 1949, the 16-year-old Manson and another youth broke into Waugh's Market, 3919 SW Adams, taking $1,200.

On March 22 of that year, Peoria police got a call someone was breaking into Earl Johnson Chevrolet on Main Street.

As a squad car pulled up to a side door, Manson, thinking the police car was his getaway car, ran from the building and jumped in the squad car.

Within seconds, he was looking at two pistols in his face. His reaction: "Ah, (expletive)! "

I wanted to know what brought him to Peoria and what he did here, so I dropped him a line.

I got his address from a California prison spokesman, who said he doubted I'd get a response. He was wrong.

My letter came back with messy yet legible cursive scrawl on the front, back and margins.

Though the spelling and grammar are poor, (Manson admits, "I dont spell . . . in English to good"), the response was cordial and devoid of expletives.

What follows is the letter, nearly unedited except for grammar and spelling changes. The parenthetical additions are mine.

____

I ran out of Boys Town, stole a car in Lincoln, Neb., and rolled to Idaho. I stole a hearse, (a) meat wagon, (and) ran with a kid.

Went to the Peoria housing projects, where his uncle ran the numbers out of Chicago.

We took a safe box -- 500 pounds -- and threw it off the bridge onto the railroad tracks and did a lot of underworld stuff.

That town's always been good to me. It's not too big like L.A. or St. Louis, yet big enough to get lost in.

The cops got me for a lot of money two times. I wrecked the hearse and they send me back to Indiana reform school.

I was never a real kid. I grew up myself, fast, and was raised by the underworld and monks and sisters in the boys' homes.

Me and Blackie buried a lot of rings, gold watches from a jewelry-store heist. I guess he went back and got it because we got split up.

Yeah, I did a lot of growing up in that town (Peoria) -- fast growing up. They put me in the jail last time I went through there. . . .

It may sound foolish, but that town has always been sweet for some reason.

____

I'm not sure where Manson and his buddy Blackie dumped the safe and buried the jewelry. Maybe Manson can clear this up.

He wrote that the Journal Star stories I had sent him weren't with the letter, and he'd like to see them.

"Send and I'll respond," he wrote.

What happened to the stories?

"It's very possible someone in the mailroom in the prison took the clips as a souvenir or whatever," wrote Sandra Good, who sent along Manson's letter to me.

I assume this is the same Sandra Good who was a member of the Manson family and once roomed with Squeaky Fromme, who once tried to kill Gerald Ford.

Why would Manson send the letter to her first, instead of directly to me? Maybe to save a stamp, or maybe she's his press agent.

I don't know; her number's unlisted. I'll ask about this in my next letters to both of them.

And maybe we'll find out if he left any hidden treasures during his short stay in Peoria.

Five Years Ago to the Day

Five years ago today we asked about Carl/Karl Stubbs right HERE.

In the book FIVE TO DIE they imply that Katie was somehow involved in this murder. November 12, 1968 it SEEMS that the attack happened. Well before Tate LaBianca.

Now over on the Evil Liz blog, the freaky lawyer who is pretending to help Charlie implies that it is TEX who killed Stubbs.

It is necessary for us however, to touch on one issue that may be important for your considerations. The Prosecutor at the trial produced to the jury the so called theory of ‘helter skelter’ namely that the Applicant may not have told his co-defendants to murder anyone but in a kind of extra-terrestrial manner influenced their minds to murder. It is a fact that the co-defendant Tex Watson was the perpetrator of a number of the murders committed. There is however, now evidence from a California Police Officer that Tex Watson may well have committed murder some nine months prior to any of the killings which if correct would destroy the theory of the Prosecutor that the co-defendants murdered by the mind control of the Applicant!

Tex Watson was seen following a man named Karl Stubbs to his house and that man was later found dead on 9/15/1968 in Olancha, California. This the verbatim statement from the California Police Officer as below:

“I have another murder that I want to tell you about. The victim is an 80 year old man named Karl Stubbs who was killed November 15, 1968 in Olancha, Ca., almost a year before Tate/LaBianca/Hinman/Shea. A witness identified Tex Watson in 1970. There were also two unknown girls there when Karl was beaten. The murder was not followed up on. Why? Because Charlie was nowhere near Olancha then and it would show that Tex is the serial killer. There is no way the Bug could have convinced the jury that he had total mind control on everyone back in 1968!

I spoke to the witness that lived behind Karl. She told me that Karl crawled to her trailer and told her husband that there was a boy and two girls that came in his house demanding money. Every time the boy would kick him in the head the girls would laugh. The witness said that Karl was totally lucid but he could not see. He died hours later. A year later, Tex Watson confessed the Tate/LaBianca murders to Diane Lake while there were in Olancha. Olancha is the gateway to the Barker Ranch via Hwy 190.

The case was investigated by the California Department of Justice. Tom interviewed the investigator who said that the investigation "fell through the cracks". It was not until Tex was finally extradited from Texas, after everyone else was tried, that the clerk at the store recognized Tex on TV as one of the kids that followed Karl home from the store. It is unknown if this was ever reported to Law Enforcement.

To this day, DOJ will not do anything with this case. (I have talked with them). Why not?????

It would show that Tex was killing people almost a year before, independently on his own, as well as two of the girls. That would not support the Bug's Helter Mind Control/Helter Skelter theory.

Olancha is a very small town. Gas Station, Store and one restaurant. About 500 people scattered over many square miles on ranches. It was not local kids. The Hannum Ranch is in Olancha. David Hannum worked at the Spahn Ranch in 1969 and the family used his mother's ranch in Olancha to park a semi trailer full of supplies and use it as a base.”

Fascinating to me this guy. They are right of course in their assertions though they won't get anywhere. And he does leave it open that it could be Tex AND Katie.

And The Tour Ends

Cielo Drive- I say "Fuck It" and go up the private road...there's a shot of the new gate... past the original houses from 1969 and the new ones...then over the canyon to Falcon's Lair, shots of the 4 houses and then the new ugly monstrosity on the left which replaced the original house. These canyons play tricks with sounds, like Bug says. And with that. our guest has seen all the major sites, 7 hours and done!



Remember - CLICK on PICS makes them BIG!

And The Candy Cat

A strip club that has lasted decades? In the middle of bumfuck? Welcome to THE CANDY CAT across from the Munch Box, ten minutes from Spahn, where Sadie used to get nekkid.

Always is Always Forever, Spahn Part 3

Climb up from the stream on the OTHER side and you get a lot of thistles. And then boom, this road that I call the "Always is Always Forever" Road. In the wonderful Hendrickson doc you see the Family, all colorfully dressed, walking down this road and singing that song. It has not changed one iota. There is also a shot of the girls on horseback on this road. Don't go the other way, some dude lives up there!

The Tour Continues

Here is a shot of Hinman's house...I forgot how far down the road it was... and here is the gate, closed, to 14400 Sunset, Dennis' pad. Last time I did this a decade ago with Jason there was an estate sale going on. Got to film the whole place, even the pool which was dry and filled with weeds. No go this time.

Speaking of Bummer....

He wrote a bunch of other stuff over the last few weeks too...start at the bottom and scroll up

----
Dear J,

It's very nice to hear from you, as your remarks are uplifting and encouraging. Everyone concerned has felt disappointment over what happened in the parole hearing, and this is certainly understandable, but really, it is only a bump in the road. Defeat is in the mind. I will never buy off on the judgment of someone like the commissioner on the parole board who believes, wrongly, that he has the power too impose defeat on someone who appears before him. How absurd!

I will never give up, Joan. And in fact I've decided to file for clemency to the governor. Only because standing my ground is the right thing to do. Whatever the outcome, standing my ground is a duty I have to a higher power.

Meanwhile, my book is coming along. I got past the "mental block" I was struggling with, and the words are now flowing well. It may be catharsis on a grand scale. We'll see.

Please stay in touch.

Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: bobby@beausoleil.net
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: my letter to the parole board's head honch

Dear Bobby and Barbara, I apologize for taking so long to write.

I am very disappointed in the outcome of the so called hearing. We know how corrupt and narrow minded many people can be. I again am very impressed with your attitude and outlook.

I do agree with Barbara in that I don't think you will have a fair shot at these hearings unless people do hear the truth from you. People will only go by what they have heard and read in the media and as you know better than I, it is very one sided and its only goal is to sell regardless of the truth.

I will still hold on to the hope that you will be set free and be reunited with your wife and loved ones outside of prison.

I am grateful for your correspondence and in many ways you will never know how much you have helped me. Anytime I get depressed about my life I think of you and gives me a reality check. I can honestly say I've had a hard life compared to most of the people I come into contact with but I know very well many have it so much worse than I could ever imagine. This makes me feel ashamed at times for feeling alot of the things I feel but I am human and my imperfections are many.

I really appreciated the letter you wrote and I hope we can stay in touch as I do enjoy it find it inspirational.

I wish you and your loved ones all the best. Please take care of yourself. Very Sincerely, Joan

We Interrupt this Blog for an Important Message

This just appeared in my Inbox....

Bobby BeauSoleil’s immortal soundtrack for Lucifer Rising, the legendary film by Kenneth Anger, is now available in digital download format in two versions. White Dog Music has partnered with CD Baby to offer audiophile quality MP3 downloads of these recordings at very special pricing.

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White Dog Music thanks you for supporting Bobby BeauSoleil’s musical endeavors.

Out the Other Side- Spahn Part 4

Up the other side we see a lot of other sites that we have seen in movies and photos. We stumble on the rusted remains of an old car- a stolen one perhaps? We see Rocky Peak itself, the best way to locate the Ranch especially if you have never been. We are up and out and it is time for lunch.

Down by the Stream, Spahn Part 2

You reach the stream bed below after stretching your hamstrings.  In the first foto you do see part of the famous cave that that foto was taken with the whole Family crew. Then you climb up the other side.... and see the No Trespassing signs.....

We Come to Spahn's Part 1

One has to have some idea what one is doing when you come to Spahn's Ranch. The property is owned by a Church and they don't exactly offer tours. There are no NO TRESPASSING signs on the property so I guess you could claim you got lost or something.

When you come to the main location, opposite Rocky Peak, you immediately realize how SMALL the main ranch actually was. There was a lot jammed in to a very small space.

But then you scuttle down the back towards the stream and you start to get your FAMILY on!

May 2011 Tour!

Click twice on a foto and feel like you are there!

TRUE not False

Here is the Harold True House. Doesn't look that changed. Still could climb over the fence and visit the neighbors so to speak.


May 2011 Tour!

They Think 3310 will Confuse People Looking for 3301

First stop on the tour- LaBianca House. Down from the Rectory. Next to the True House. There's been an addition to house since 1969. Comments from the tour "It is so close to the road and so close to the True house." "Is that the driveway?" "Did they really park here?" "Were those bushes there?"

Ask a Stupid Question....

Obama takes heat from ... Charles Manson


By David Jackson, USA TODAY

Well, presidents get criticized by a lot of people.

But we don't think President Obama will be too upset over being attacked by Charles Manson.

Obama is a "slave to Wall Street," says Manson, the cult leader who is serving a life sentence for conspiracy in the 1969 murders of actress Sharon Tate and others (the basis for the book, Helter Skelter).

Manson tells Vanity Fair Spain: "I think Obama is an idiot for doing what he does. I do not know how you were able to cheat to get there. Not realize what they are doing. They are playing with him."

Manson reportedly spoke in Spanish.

So we don't know if his odd comments reflect a poor command of the language, a bad translation -- or simply the ravings of a very, very weird individual.

Talking About the Movie That Won't Happen....

From Fearnet.com.... especially laughable shit in RED.
-------------

In 1969, a cult of brainwashed hippies killed eight people in a seemingly random, unprovoked two-night spree. Charles Manson is normally the boogeyman attached to the Tate-LaBianca murders, but Manson didn't even set foot in either crime scene. He sent his "family" to do the dirty work for him. The Manson Family legend is one of the scariest and most fascinating in true crime, yet the focus frequently is on Manson himself. Writer/director Susanna Lo is set to change that with her film, Manson Girls, which will tell the stories of followers such as Sadie Atkins, "Squeaky" Fromme, Linda Kasbian, and Patricia Krenwinkel.

We chatted with Tania Raymonde (Death Valley, Lost) about her role as Leslie Van Houten, and what sets this film apart from other Manson films.

Tell us about the movie.

Everyone knows about the Manson story. Everyone has seen the movies and read Helter Skelter. This is a very different take on the Manson story. The focus is exclusively on the girls. The focus is on the girls' life before Barker Ranch, how they met one another, and then them living as a family together on the ranch. The movie ends a minute before the first murder. You never see any of the murders. You only hear about Sharon Tate vaguely, but you know it is coming.

Not only that, but you never see Manson. You only hear him off-screen talking to the girls. It is really about the girls interacting with one another, discovering things for the first time. Sexually, emotionally, spiritually. It's about seeing how these girls could be manipulated into going down a path that would lead them to murder someone. It's more of a psychological thriller, showing how the girls got to that point. I'm very excited about it.

Have you started shooting yet?

No, we start in about two or three weeks.

Will you be shooting at the actual Barker Ranch?

We were thinking about it, but logistically there are problems with that. Plus, the actual ranch was burnt down. I think we will be shooting in and around LA for the first week or two, then we are going down to Puerto Rico for the rest. That will be our desert.

That's got to be intense. Manson's manipulation was astounding.

Yeah. You also find out a lot about the girls' personal lives. No one ever thinks of the girls as people. You are so horrified by this awful thing they all did, and it colors your perception of who these girls were. A lot of them came from interesting backgrounds. Weird stuff happened to some when they were young. All that stuff, combined with living at the end of the 1960s, the political movements of the time, really molded them into the women they would become. That was one of the reasons Manson picked these girls. It's interesting to see the way these girls interact with one another. A lot of people just don't know about them, or about peripheral murders and dramas that happened on the ranch. For once, it tells the Manson story but doesn't exploit the murders or rehash the horrible things done to Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas. It's just about how these girls were manipulated. It's creepy, but there is something interesting about it.

Did you do a lot of research for the role?

I've been reading everything I can find. The great part about playing a real person is that I can go on YouTube and look up interviews of Leslie when she was young, when she was old, all her court hearings. She is an enigma. There is a lot that I don't think people know about Leslie. I think it will be interesting to play a real person, and get to the core of her. It's scary. The whole Manson thing, the murders and his ideology... it really frightens me. I'm really scared by that kind of stuff, and I think that is why I wanted the part. It scares me.

Apparently the girls stabbed Sharon Tate and her friends like 55 times, then took a shower in their bathroom and ate a watermelon from their fridge, then drove home, had sex, watched TV, and just had a laugh. But they weren't bad girls. Some were abused, but some weren't. They were normal kids. But there was just something about Manson that allowed him to completely brainwash them. It's really creepy. I do wonder what it will be like to get to that point, mentally.

It's going to be especially weird, since in the project I am just wrapping up, my character is very focused, very goal-oriented, and kind of a badass. Then I am going to play a brainwashed, head-in-the-clouds hippie. It's going to be strange. But fun.

Go GREEN!

Charles Manson Breaks 20-Year Silence, Warns Of Global Warming

Charles Manson, the notorious cult leader, has broken his 20-year silence, and is speaking out about global warming.

Manson, now 76 years old, was accused of brainwashing members of his commune known as “The Manson Family." He was jailed 40 years ago for orchestrating the murders of eight people -- carried out at his instruction -- including Roman Polanski’s pregnant wife, Sharon Tate.

The Telegraph reports that during a recent interview with Spain’s Vanity Fair magazine, Manson warned of a danger that he thinks is greater than himself -- global warming.

Manson said, "Everyone's God and if we don't wake up to that there's going to be no weather because our polar caps are melting because we're doing bad things to the atmosphere… The automobiles and fossil fuels are destroying the atmosphere and we won't have air to breathe.”

Before trailing off, Manson added, 'If we don’t change that as rapidly as I’m speaking to you now, if we don’t put the green back on the planet and put the trees back that we’ve butchered, if we don’t go to war against the problem...'

According to The Daily Mail, Manson is also a founder of ATWA (Air Trees Water Animals or All The Way Alive). The mission statement warns of the planet’s destruction from pollution.

Charles Manson is likely not the advocate that environmentalists would like on their team to fight climate change. Will Manson's comments bring further controversy and political ammunition to an already hotly debated issue, or are they to be disregarded as the ramblings of a madman?

A Thought or Three about the Bug

There's so much about this case which proves it comes from another time and place. Things that happened which would NEVER fly today in 2011. Lately I've been reflecting on the BUG and how he ended up becoming the unlikely lead prosecutor in the case....

I mean, people in the DA's office knew about the trouble with the milkman. Laws were broken and one would think the BUG barely kept his position.

So I follow why Stovitz gets knocked off the game board for yakking his mouth too much- but does BUG get it because he's just standing in the on deck circle? I repeat- people, higher ups, must of known he was off center to say the very least. Yet he steps up during the crime of the century.

Odd.

How different would it be if he had not ascended the throne. We might not have a conviction for Charlie, but we would likely have less shit to try and figure out as well.

Now Back To Bryn

Not sure what Vera the Disinformation girl is on about- here is Bryn's mug shot from when he was arrested. It is a public document. He doesn't own the copyright. I am not sure what lawsuit she is ranting about.

---------------------
Yes he does resemble the guy in the other arrest foto. But I cannot tell.

----------------------

How does Bryn relate to Crowe?
How does Crowe relate to Dawson?
Why does Crowe not retaliate?
Does Charlie think he killed him?
Why did the BUG never call him?
How does all of this relate to Wilson?

Stirring the Wasp's Nest

We got a letter from Gary's "relative." As usual the Col replies in red---

Yes I am really a relative of Gary's.Nice to meet you.

I don't need to tell you how I am related

to him. You don't need to tell me anything...unless of course you wish to be believed. Otherwise you need to tell me a lot more than this.
We never said we didn't want to be contacted.Not sure what this non sequitur means.

I can't speak for all of

Gary's relatives but his cousin and I don't mind be being contacted. Cool, maybe someone will contact you. Oh wait, Liz did.

Yes that is really

Bruce's letter. Yes that is a letter from Bobby. I wrote to them at the request

of Gary's cousin.Interesting how even they seem to doubt you are who you claim to be.


YourYou're, a contraction of "You" and "are" the one you never wants the truth.It's the only thing I do want, sister, and believing some lunatic off the internet is not how I will get it. You tried to contact me in early 2010, and when asked to offer a SHRED of proof you vanished. Maybe Liz has time to humor you. We do not.

You act like your some

big wig.I act like nothing. This site is WORDS. Anything else is your projection.

You no know nothing about Gary's life. I do.I have one question and one only, see if you answer it- how many times did you meet Mr. Hinman?

I know he wasn't a dealer and

I know your you're full of crap. Go ahead I'm through playing your game. Don't blame

Liz or Matt.Blame them for what? They censored my comment. That's their right. It is also mine to chastise them for censorship. But blame them?

Go ahead and ask me a few questions. I would be more than happy to answer

them for you.I asked you ONE above. I already know the answer but go ahead, we are waiting.

I really do care about Gary and yes I am dedicated to preserving his memory.Then you would not be doing so on a relatively new and specialized blog. Hell, you wouldn't be doing it here, and I've been at this longer than most. YOu would do so on www.GaryHinman.com. But you don't.

True I don't have any other pictures of Gary. But I don't need to explain

that tooto you either why I don't have them. You don't need to explain that unless you wish to be beiieved.

Don't try to make people look bad because you are so unhappy with your

own life. That you feel a need to make others look bad.Not at all- I feel a need to not entertain lunatics.

Liz only censored the comments so that you wouldn't badmouth Gary.Being gay is not badmouthing someone you ignorant, illiterate homophobe.

I knew you would. Because you are really pathetic. You are clairvoyant too.

True none of Gary's relatives have attended parole hearing but that doesn't

mean they don't care about him.It does send some sort of message, at least to me.
I know I do and I know two of his cousins

do also. Its It's really your problem not mine what you believe.Then why did you write to me?

---------------
More Nutso Drivel

I wish you would stop Defaming Gary.Defamation is a legal term. I know this as a disbarred attorney from Hawthorne. You cannot defame a dead person. It is not legally possible.

Remember what comes around goes

around.The Circle Of Life! Gary was a good person with a kind heart.I believe his young music students got to see more than just his heart. Since you never

knew him you shouldn't be judging him.Did you know him? Meet him? I asked once already.

I really don't care what you think anymore.Yet you keep writing. You have a terrible attitude.Staying above the fray is hard.

I am not as peaceful as Gary was.Does that mean you don't have any MDMA? So keep pushing my buttons.

I will always remember Gary & the other victims honorably.Do you think that is what they would want or would they want the truth about their deaths to come out? WHY was Gary killed? WHO wanted him dead?

Not just because I am related to Gary. But because I think itsit's the

right thing to do and I won't ever stop defending him.You are not defending him. He is not being attacked.

Like I said please contact me. I am not afraid of you.

Like everyone else is.These are sentence fragments that make little sense- I will simply say that no one is afraid of me. Nor should they be.

BTW I am not on drugs.I believe you. I am certain that you are ignorant and illiterate and ranting without the use of narcotics.

Its really a shame you have no respect for Gary. I'm sure

he would be towards you.We be you you be me we be all together.

Actually Bruce & Bobby have more respect for others than you.

And their killers.You stopped making sense already, does your head explode soon? Did someone kill Bobby? That is what you have written.

YourYou're a real sorry human being. ItsIt's also a shame because most

of the blog owners are decent people and nothing like you. And most of them have not had to put up with cranks like you. Liz is great- give her some time.

-----------------------
And now we get Liz, who is smart and articulate

Colonel, Matt responded for me earlier. i was out all day and didn't want you to think i was blowing you off. Miranda gave me enough proof that i believed her. yes those pictures were posted on TOTL, i am not sure if they are any place else. They originally come from a UCLA website. Miranda told me she had contacted Cats/Glenda a while back (years i think) and gave her those same pictures. Miranda did NOT give her those fotos. HUNDRED PERCENT. Miranda never mentioned to me contacting you or your blog.Early 2010 she did.

Besides Cats she mentioned another site but i forget the name now.

Miranda told me there were not alot of pictures of Gary, he did not like to be photographed. i believe it.Maybe. Let's say that fotos taken the year he was killed are rare. But his fucking family would have his senior prom foto. Where is that, Miranda? i hate having my picture taken and i think the last time i had my picture taken was 20 years ago when i had my daughter. i do not photograph well and cringe at the site of any photo of me. i really truly believe her, based on what she told me.I know you do. But you are young in this game and innocent.

she is a blood relative of Gary's. you mentioned on your blog, Gary's

immediate family never wanted to be bothered with the hearings.

they wanted to try to forget it all. it pains them. which i can understand.

Miranda lives on the east coast, a far and expensive trip to look at the person who participated/caused the death of one of your family members and to listen to their ever changing stories. If it were my relative, a small price to pay to keep the culprit behind bars. Not once in 43 years? theHinmans keep in contact with the parole board by mail. Gary's mother and father are both deceased now. When they were alive they had a lot of reasons why not to go to the parole hearings. over the years, especially in the beginning, they received threatening phone calls and hang ups from guess which family? the senseless crime wounded them so that they did not even want to face the killers of their son. it was NEVER spoken about. if anything related to it came on the t.v, it had to be shut off.Well that isn't healthy now is it?

people handle things diffrently, and i guess that is the way the Hinmans do it.

you mentioned on your blog that the letters from Bruce and

Bobby don't sound the same as the ones you receive.

Colonel you and i both know these people are chameleons.

the stories changed with every letter, parole hearing and interview.

they write the things they do to certain people to benefit themselves.

Case wise let me ask you this- if there was any type of drug factory, or drug dealings- don't you think it would be mentioned in a police report?This would assume that the lab was active, but Gary was leaving town in a few days.

i am sure you have read them, i have. also Gary had no drugs in his system at the time of his death. yes i know, maybe he didn't sample his wares but still.

And if she was a fake-how did it benefit her? This is the question. Why do so many people in LA tell the Col that they were headed to a big party on Cielo that night but canceled at the last minute? HELL, why do people pretend they were in OUR GANG when they were kids? They just do. she said nothing hateful about Bruce or Bobby. she remains in contact with Bruce to this day.

i don't know if you are in contact with Bruce, ask him about her-he can verify it. Miranda still exchanges mail with Bruce to this day.

And yes we gave her a fake name since she didn't want to use her real one.

You also said "these people don't want to be contacted." i never contacted Gary or Stephanie Schram's family. they contacted me.You are inverting the comment. I KNOW you didn't. But I a saying that THEY didn't either because it ain't them.

As for "censoring" your comment, one of the deal makers with Miranda was that we would not let any negative or hurtful comments through. weather you believe me or her, try to see it this way-

If one of your family was murdered in a terrible way- would you want to go on the internet and see terrible, un-true, hurtful things said about your dead family member?But they are true and I am not sure why being gay would be hurtful.

especially when someone promised you it would not happen?

and so what if Gary was gay, would that have justified killing him to rid the world of one queer? NO it wouldn't. But if we truly want to know WHY he was killed we need to look at his whole life and his sexuality is part of that, especially in 1969.

i have in no way benefited from that post. if anything all i have received is negativity. I hear ya, Evil One

hope this clears up a few things for you. Liz

-------------------
and now the finale

• drug dealer theory‏

• Riley004583@aol.com
• Send emaiFind emTo colscott@hotmail.c

From:	Riley004583@aol.com
Sent:	Fri 1/29/10 9:31 PM
To:	colscott@hotmail.com

I too have talked with one of the victims family members. Your theory about him being a drug dealer is bunk.In other words his cousin says that this is totally false and the killers and their defense used this to mitigate exterminating a fine human being. You can go go with your theory but we know its not true.

Although I have seen you have left his name off your blog for once. And we do thank you for that.

____________________________

• Re: drug dealer theory‏

From:	Riley004583@aol.com
Sent:	Sat 1/30/10 9:07 AM
To:	colscott@hotmail.com

Yes I was talking about Gary. His cousin is adamant about this. He says Rumours about him being murdered as a drug debt are totally false and just used as ploy by the murderers and their attorneys to mitigate the extermination of a fine human being. He says Gary may have used Marijuana casually but

thats it. If you don't believe me why don't you ask Bruce Davis or Bobby I have written to both of them

and they have told me that Gary wasn't a drug dealer and that's not why he was murdered. Even though

they are murderers at least they have shown compassion for the victims and remorse. Something people

off the internet no nothing about. You seem so one sided and made Bobby seem like this also. Bobby

actually does care about the victims as so does Bruce I believe. Not that I want them released from prison

but I see they are at least trying to make amends for what they have done and that is good. As for Jay Sebring and Frykowski I don't know them or anyone in their family but I have my doubts that they were

dealers. But you say you know Jay's nephew so why don't you ask him? See not all the victims relatives

are like Debra Tate on a witch hunt. Yes I do enjoy your blog at times. But constantly bashing Gary is

wrong. Also he wasn't gay either and didn't have a thing for little boys as you say. I know you say don't read my blog if you don't like it. You really don't know much about Gary or the type of person he was but he was a wonderful person who just wanted to help people. But some of the victims families do read your blog think about that the next time.

------------------------

• Your IGNORANT‏

To colscott@hotmail.com

From:	Riley004583@aol.com
Sent:	Mon 2/01/10 5:56 PM
To:	colscott@hotmail.com

You are so ignorant anyway. Your blog really does suck. And you are one of the most ignorant piece

of crap producers around. By the way your name is Don Murphy isn't it. I don't care if you believe me or not.

I am glad you posted my letter because people will now see you for who you are. Keep challenging

people and I am sure it will come back to bite you. You think you know everything but you really don't.

I can Defend Gary if I want. For once I think people would love for you to just shut your big mouth.

----------------------------------------

• Gary was a fine human being‏

• 
  
• Send email
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Add to contacts

To colscott@hotmail.com

From:	Riley004583@aol.com
Sent:	Mon 2/01/10 9:50 PM
To:	colscott@hotmail.com

We really don't care what you think about him. We think he was a wonderful person. He was a lot better person than you'll ever be. At least he cared about people and there feelings. Yes he did help people something you know nothing about. Yes you have defamed his character whether you believe that or not.

I don't need to read your false reports. Gary had a family that loved him and thought the world of him.

I wonder how you can go through life treating people this bad. Even Debra you badmouthed her all the time.

You really should put yourself in someone elses shoes before speaking. Debra may not be perfect but who is at least she loved her sister just like Gary's cousin loves him. Debra has helped people. I may not agree with everything she does. But I do give her credit and she seems like a strong person. Also to

the people on your blog we really don't care what you think about Gary, since really your a bunch of nobodys to us with no compassion or feelings for others. So remember your the one who has Defamed

Debra & Gary. You really don't know if Bruce has remorse or not. I say yes I have read what he says.

Your not always right just remember that.

---------------------------------------
At no point does bitch say that she is Gary's relative. NOT ONCE. You can see the same illiteracy and ignorance. And she is DESPERATE to teach the COL a lesson and put him in his place. If she WERE a relative would she not have said so?

(and I have talked with other site masters who have similar emails)

Sorry Liz, she is not a relative, she never met Gary and MAYBE she talked to a cousin once. You were had. Better luck next time.

Me, I am used to it. Onward.

Can't Stop The Bryn

Aside from Vera showing up and claiming we are all so totally wrong just trust her word, let's get back to Bryn.

How does Lotsapoppa's bodyguard end up best friends with Dennis Wilson and hanging at the ranch?

Was Charlie really surprised that Crowe was still alive when he saw him in the corridor or was he shocked to see him testifying against him?

BTW, WHY was a drug dealer, who had kidnapped a girl, even used as a witness against Charlie?

Did Charlie really think he was a Black Panther? Wouldn't Bryn have laughed at that?

Now, if I want to buy into the idea of Charlie as mastermind, but not the psycho of Helter Skelter, how about this-

Charlie shoots Crowe and rescues Kroner. TJ and the others with him supported this. He takes the leather strap off of Bryn. He knows the guy is gonna live, but he got to play cowboy. Remember this as well- CROWE NEVER CAME AFTER HIM. Never came after anybody. Why not? Guy is still out $5000 and has lead in his belly. This is the guy that said over the phone he was gonna rape the women and make the men watch.

But maybe over the next week somebody (Bryn?) helps make the peace. Comes down to the ranch. Says get $25k and this goes away. Bryn gets scooped up in the raid but they are all out in hours.

Now Charlie needs $25k, or he needs to get out of LA. Hmm Death Valley sounds nice. Or we can get the $25k from Gary he might have it. If we assume the truth of the MDMA burn, the Frenchman owes Charlie for the Biker violence- go get it Bobby.

And Tex still owes him for ripping off Crowe to begin with.

I don't know. I just like to think like real human beings do, not like characters in a BUGliosi paranoia play.

Or course Crowe wouldn't back down. But he seems to have. Why?

The Trouble with the Nets

The trouble with these newfangled internets is that people can say they are anything. I say I am a disbarred attorney from Hawthorne California, others say I am a rich film producer (sweet!). And without absolute proof, our desire for the truth can be thwarted by a two bit moron from Des Moines.

When Clark Ronson (not his real name) started the TLB message board peripheral people did show up- Karen McCoy Montecillo, the friend of Steven Parent who claimed they dated (he liked boys, so no). But then more central figures showed up, including the legendary Ouisch. But then it turned out that Clark himself was pretending to be Ouisch.

Nelson the Molester did uncover Snake and Hoyt, but even he was desperate to speak with the central people. He even wrote an unreadable book about trying to contact them.

Guess what? They don't want to be contacted.

Clem gets outed and his mobile attorney starts throwing threatening letters.

These people don't want to be contacted.

Repeat that to yourself over and over.

----------------------------------------------
On this site I have been contacted by many imposters.

I was able to ascertain that Nancy Pitman was real.

As was the grown up child of Lauren Willett.

Others not so much.

Why do people pretend? Because it makes them feel powerful.

But these people don't want to be contacted.

------------------------------------------
Over at the Evilliz blog (where she has censored my postings, an odd thing for someone who complained about Cats so much) someone claiming to be related or associated with Gary Hinman has spoken out.

This person has sent photos. Photos that were unearthed by Heave on her awesome site years ago.

She has sent letters that don't sound like Bruce or Bobby, but who knows, maybe they are. Whenever I speak to Bobby, MDMA is a major factor in what happened.

She has sent claims. Claims that Hinman didn't deal drugs. It is very likely he did. Claims that he wasn't gay (again, I will never understand people acting like that is a bad thing.) He most definitely was.

But, Class, take the point above (these people don't want to be contacted) and decide

- Does the alleged close Hinman associate NOT appear at any Parole Hearing for Bobby or Charlie or Bruce for FORTY TWO FUCKING YEARS and then one day show up online at a new and disorganized site and reveal "the truth"?

Sit with that thought for a minute. Let logic be your friend.

These people don't want to be contacted. Liz, I love your work, dislike your censorship but baby, you been had!

Bryn- still more on this guy

So the amazing Jon AesNihil lends us a hand and checks the Spahn arrest records and find out that it was Bryn.

Bryan Lesue Lukashevsky 21930 Canon Dr Topanga 1-28-48 M W 6-1 160 bln blu DL# P 188 944 aka Bryan Lukas

Thank you Jon.

I actually feel excited to be back. I have never seen the connection spelled out like this before.

Lotsapoppa's bodyguard during the shooting....
Close Friend of Dennis Wilson who rats out Manson....
Arrested at Spahn Ranch hanging out with the Family....

I always felt he was a key link. I still don't know what it means.

Thoughts?

Bryn, More on this Guy

A reader tells us that the third guy from the right in the photo is Bryn Lukashevski.
The guy next to Danny DeCarlo, who is dressed differently from everyone else.
Maybe Cats or someone with the caption for this photo can confirm this. Or maybe check against the arrest records.

We need to confirm this first.

If this is true, then a guy who was Lotsapoppa's bodyguard, who was best friends with Dennis Wilson and told him about the shooting, this guy is arrested at Spahn two weeks after the murders. Looking a bit dressed up like he was paying a visit.

What does this mean? I don't know yet but it is pretty fucking crazy.


(photo was originally found on the amazing Truth on Tate LaBianca site)

Rudy Altobelli 1929- 2011

Rudy Altobelli died last week. March 26, 2011. He was 82.

Pertinent TLB Facts about Rudy Altobelli

1- He owned 10050 Cielo Drive before, during and after the murders.
2- He did send Roman Polanski a bill for damages done to the house while renting it.
3- He was a music and film agent representing many luminaries of the day.
4- At one point he repped Christopher Jones, lost movie star who claims to have had an affair with Sharon Tate that probably did not happen.
5-Sold the house and watched as it was razed
6- Did not talk about what happened.

He has been cremated. No services have been planned. The LA Times has not even reported this. Not even a blaring "EX AGENT WHO OWNED MURDER HOUSE PASSES."

Rudy we hardly knew ye. RIP.

The Druggie Connection

If you believe that Drugs played a bigger part in the crimes that the BUG wanted to admit then you are forced to follow a myriad of alleyways that all seem to go no where.

Pic Dawson is cleared by LAPD, and rightly so. Same with Billy Doyle and Tom Harrigan.

But I keep wondering about Bryn Lukashevski and to a lesser extent Dale Fimple (no that's isn't a disease).

You can search for my earlier posts about Bryn.

But if you are a student of the case this guy will bother you. Why does Dennis Wilson finally disown Charlie? Because he hears of the Lotsapoppa shooting. How does he hear of it? From his close personal friend Bryn Lukashevski. How did Bryn know of it. He was there. He was one of Crowe's bodyguards. And a close personal friend of Dennis'.

Do you see what I see? There is a chunk missing, but it is a big chunk. It is like the connection is close but then it slithers away.

Bryn bodyguards a bigtime drug dealer whose house is less than ten blocks away from Mama Cass' where Pic Dawson hangs out and deals. Pic likely deals for Voytek. Mamas and Papas. Beach Boys. Celebrity. Drugs. Debra Tate's underaged nude fotos taken with Pic.

My brain hurts.

Tom O'Neill, the guy who was writing the definitive book on the case (since at LEAST 2001) I think found Bryn and/or Dale. I cannot remember.

But methinks the missing link is through this avenue. Did one of them know Rosemary?

Scorecard

There are three crappy films that are trying to get made about the TLB Murders and one half crappy one. Let's discuss.

___________________________
1- The Family-based on the book by Ed Sanders except not really since the book is just a bunch of newspaper articles strung together and typed up by mongoloids. OOO ee OOO indeed. Screenplay by the guy who wrote the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake (dear god!) Scott Kosar. Tells the story mostly through the eyes of Snake Lake, because, well, no fucking reason. Screenwriter poor, accuracy in the garbage, weak project overall. Been floating around Hollywood for at least 8 years maybe longer. Recently attached Ryan Kwanten from True Blood and nobody cared. Decent pedigree by Hollywood standards. Kosar wants to direct and well, isn't a director. About once a year they throw this up a tree and see who will salute it. Not gonna happen.
___________________________

2- The Manson Girls- now EYES OF A DREAMER- shitty script that is an abomination against god and man. Originally written by Matthew Bright who was going to direct it. Now apparently some photographer who doesn't direct is going to direct it. Tells the story through the eyes of Nancy Pitman and along the way tries to make her into a nice guy. You know, by ignoring all the bad shit she did. Wyman stirred shit up years ago by offering the role of Nancy to Lindsay Lohan. She accepted it in between lines of blow then forgot about it. No one has bothered to mention that the new director is screwy. Wyman, apparently upset that this shitfest hasn't been filmed yet, recently "offered" the role of Sharon Tate (about 3 pages in the script I have) to Lindsay Lohan. Lohan is looking at jail time and is not bondable for a film, but the offer got Wyman more attention. Too bad the film won't be happening anytime soon.

___________________________
3- The Manson Girls- shitty script by a half assed filmmaker, we started to review it and then vommed in our hat. Samantha Lo Mein is directing. Tells the story ...well it doesn't. There are made up girls and bs incidents. There is some socialite that isn't real and she tells part of the story. The chick that wrote this is nuts. She offered the roles to all sorts of actresses who are too old and wrong for the part and she didn't have the money for the film. I think she thought the fairies would finance it or something. Prognosis- doesn't matter how low the budget, the script is NONSENSE and the film won't be happening soon.

____________________________
4- The Dead Circus- cult novel that is really about the death of Bobby Fuller, 60s singer. Have not read script. Producer announces casting which is partially denied. In announcement reporter makes clear that financing not in place. Cyclops from X-Men to play short Charlie Manson (okay then) but then he refuses to say yes he is to TMZ. Director has never directed before. Story surrounds major Manson Family member Alice McMillan and her quest for the lost snuff tapes that never existed outside of Sander's bong. Silly art film that may happen since there are real people involved but if I had to vote, the computer says no.

____________________________
There that catches us up.

Why do people do this? Because they can. Maybe just maybe they think, the attention will get their shitty scripts greenlit.

Boulevard of Broken Dreams baby.

Do you want me to finish reviewing this nonsense? I will. Unless you don't give a shit.

Bobby Gives Up

I remain deeply grateful for the support I’ve received from all of you, in all the various ways each of you has given it. Some of you have written letters to the Chairman of the California parole board, and I decided to write one to him as well. You can read what I wrote to him below.

With this I am letting go of all this parole hearing business. In the letter I said what I felt there was a need to say regarding the circumstances and fairness (or lack of it) in the hearing, while being fully aware that fairness has become severely marginalized in the justice system of today.

I am fully aware, moreover, that all of this arises out of past actions. Blaming my circumstances will only imprison me in them. The hearing decision is due to become final in April. Resources required for appealing the hearing procedure violations in the courts are unavailable to me, and even if they were there is only a slim chance that such litigation efforts would produce beneficial results. The obvious course, therefore, is to cut my losses and sweep the parole hearing baggage out of my path so I can move ahead with the work there is to be done.

Of course, if there are any significant developments in any of these areas you will hear from me. Thanks again for your love and support.

Peace.

Bobby


Here is what I wrote to . . . .


Robert Doyle, Chairman
California Board of Parole Hearings

Dear Mr. Doyle,

This letter is in regards to my most recent parole hearing, which took place on December 13th 2010.

What occurred in this hearing has deeply troubled me and the people who care about me. While I understand, and fully accept, that the Board of Parole Hearings no longer has a formal appeal process, I feel compelled to bring to your attention the abnormalities that arose in the hearing. In your capacity as the Chairman of the BPH, you may have reasons to share my concerns.

As you probably know, I have been continuously incarcerated for a life crime since August of 1969. Since then I have had about twenty parole hearings, so I’m very familiar with the hearing procedures.

In earlier hearings I was always permitted to make statements relevant to the events and circumstances of the crime, and what significant developments have occurred since that tend to demonstrate acceptance of responsibility and changes in personal orientation. In my hearing this past December I was on several occasions prevented from making statements pertinent to the hearing process. Most egregiously, I was not allowed to finish making a closing statement I had prepared for the hearing. This statement was intended to relate, in terms leaving no uncertainty, my acceptance of responsibility to the victim and remorse for my participation in actions directly resulting in his death.

This dismaying development is inconsistent with my experiences in prior parole hearings. I am unaware of any changes in lifer hearing procedures that would support disallowing an inmate from making statements pertinent to the hearing process.

During his remarks in the decision phase of the hearing, the presiding Commissioner put a great deal of emphasis on crimes I did not participate in, and could not have participated in due to my imprisonment at the time they occurred. Despite there being no allegations ever brought to suggest my involvement in these other crimes, they seem to have been a primary justification for a 5-year denial. In no hearing previous to this one has it been suggested that I should be held to account for crimes I could not have been involved in committing.

I understand that prison inmates with life-top sentences have no entitlement to being granted parole. However, it is also my understanding that inmates appearing before the BPH are entitled to a fair hearing. In light of the foregoing, which is plainly evidenced in the transcript of the hearing, I fail to see how my hearing last December meets even the minimum standard for fairness by any reasonable measure.

R. BeauSoleil
March 23rd 2011

What Happened Was....

There was once a great site which was called THE MANSON FAMILY TODAY. It was run by a great guy named Bret in Iceland. He exposed convicted murderer and still uncharged LaBianca conspirator Steve Grogan as Adam Gabriel, SF Band Member who played children's parties. He sent the Col cool vids too, including one of the girls on the corner actually making Bobby's vest, which the Col owns.

Bret died of drugs. It is a shame.

I have been offered the opportunity to host his old site but I have declined. I only care about mine. I am selfish.

------------------------------

There was once a site that was up way longer than Bret's. It was called CharlieManson.com. Mark Turner ran it. He ate the farts out of Debra Tate's ass, so his opinion was skewed. But he had a lot of great info on the site. It went down in early 2011. I don't know why.

I also don't care.

------------------------------

There was a Yahoo group called Killed The Sixties, owned by Denise Greek and run by Heaven. Two terrific ladies. It still exists but where once it got 300 posts a day now it gets that in a year. Heaven retired. She knew too much. Nice lady.

------------------------------

This is the history of TLB study going back to the Clark Ronson Board, The GoRightly abomination of a website and the site run by pedophile Bill Nelson.

What we do is transitory. People have forgotten that Bug stalked his milkman and beat his mistress. They don't know that Charlie didn't kill anyone. Life marches on.

If we are going to solve this thing we need to keep notes and pay attention.

The Official TLB Murders Blog 2.0

Good evening. Pull up a chair and join us won't you? This evening is brought to you by the dulcet tones of The Beatles as well as Lawrence Welk. Let's open a decanter of brandy and pour some...uh...libations.

Welcome back to the ONLY Official Blog that dares to ask the question "Why were nine people savagely murdered and do the people in jail really belong there." This is of course a murder case from FORTY THREE fucking years ago. Yet, because everyone involved was so damn young at the time, precious few of those associated with the case (except of course the victims) have passed away.

I am your host, ColScott. I started this blog many moons ago after being repeatedly banned from lesser sites. These sites tried to coddle the memory of the victims. They took the garbage spewed by BUGliosi in his novel HELTER SKELTER as God Given truth. They didn't want to hear about Debra's disownment, Garrettson's mental breakdowns, or BUGliosi punching out his mistress. They just wanted to oogle fucking Ouisch, or worse, pretend to be her. If you wish any of those things, the Official Blog is NOT the place to do so.

This Blog will do many things. Discuss obscure aspects of the case. Update you with news you might have missed. Argue about whether retards like Jim in New York should be allowed to breathe MY air. But everything we do here is in the service of one thing. Figuring out what REALLY happened. 9 people remain dead and the lying, full of shit prosecutor made up a motive and spoon fed it to Grandma. I want to know why they were killed. For reals.

Now I may never know. It was a longass time ago and a bunch of people want to produce bad screenplays and make more shit up. And worse, the people who DO know haven't said boo in decades so I can't count on them now. But dammit, if we don't try who will? Bret? Heaven? Mark Turner? Evidently not.

The Col as you can see has posted rarely in the last 6 months. I've been wondering, "Whither Goest The Blog?" Do I have any more to say? Is the pursuit worthwhile?

I say thee YES.

The TLB crimes remain a central crime of my lifespan. People remain fascinated with what happened this many years later. They do so BECAUSE of the lies that we seek to unravel here.

The Col is back. You are welcome to join the discussion.

----------------- ------------------- ----------------

--> Comments are now open to anyone with a google account. We had them open for years, then closed them when "friends" of Mark Turner attacked en masse. We kept them closed because of Asshats like JimNY who would delete comments after posting (and who deleted my youtube account) and Assclowns like Jempud (what a bizarre name) who don't know shit from shinola. I open them again for the first time in years. Let's all be nice now.

--> Now that the mighty have fallen we really only have TWO "sister" sites. There is Cat's awesome site TRUTH ON TATE LABIANCA which is a great archive and discussion site. And Evil Liz's site which is kind of a "where are they now" site. There is also some other site that steals from people so screw them.

--> Yes I know you want to know more about all these movies not happening. I'll get to it.

--> The Col is here. Accept no substitutes!