It's one year ago TODAY that Col. Paul J Tate died.
I spoke with my Texas sources and confirmed that Mr. Tate has still not had a proper burial.
It is believed that the remains are still somewhere in the home of his daughter Debra Tate.
Perhaps she takes him out at night and gloats.... "I couldn't be a movie star daddy, but I'd even sue you to control Sharon's likeness. Anything to make you like me the best."
I don't know what she is doing with his remains and neither does the rest of his family.
Debra, you've had him to yourself for a year. Can't you just let the man rest in piece?
96 comments:
I have to admit, I'm a bit curious myself as to why Debra has done some of the things she's done...
What could possibly have happened to cause her parents to completely disown her....
Joe
How dare you.
I persecute NO ONE.
Debra Tate is ONE PERSON who held herself out to the world as the family rep for Sharon.
Did she ever mention that the family disowned her? No.
Debra Tate is persecuting her family by refusing to honor her father's wishes - out of spite.
Col., I don't know where you find the time.
My point (and everyone here seems to agree) is that there is NOTHING justifiable that could have gone on to make her do this. Even if she hated him to her core- he's dead, get over it.
Hey Joe, do you kick small dogs and crippled people? I mean, they might deserve it too and cannot fight back.
petty vindictiveness does not equate to private turmoil
feel free to convince us otherwise
Hey Joe, do you kick small dogs and crippled people? I mean, they might deserve it too and cannot fight back.
DOUBLE WOW -- YOU'RE PUBLISHING THE PRIVATE TURMOIL OF A WOMAN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ALL OVER THE INTERNET AND YOU ASK ME IF I KICK DOGS AND CRIPPLES? GET SOME PERSPECTIVE, MAN.
This is so absurd. Does this blog have any credibility left? I mean the credibility that one would expect from any average blog?
Asking dissenters if they kick dogs and cripples? Please.
I can understand goading Debra Tate with your outlandishness because you want response but the only sense I can make of this exchange is that the "Col" would rather demean others that don't follow the party line.
That doesn't give me any confidence in his judgement or credibility.
Hence, this blog's.
Someone in here was curious about the Hoffa case.
Backhoes are digging in Milford, Michigan.
Stay tuned.
Hiya 4Sharon
And to anyone on the official board watchin.. HI lol
I have no personal beef with Debra, I don't know her so my curosity isn't personal..
I see her as the classic middle child.. Not as beautiful as her older sister and not as cute as her little sister...
I find it strange that everyone in her family died (except Sharon) being pissed off at her.... And yes, I was told that even Doris was upset with her....
I would think that would be hard to live with.
=)
They don't discuss this blog over there. I once asked about Col Tate's remains and the post got deleted....
=)
Col Scott, I sent you a pretty interesting email...
=)
Paige runs the Official Sharon Tate Discussion board. Debra doesn't post there because I'm told she lives in a very remote area and doesn't have internet service. So Paige runs it for her.
4Sharon said...
Let me ad Audio Magic - I am allowed to have opinions or state what I view concerning someone's "off" actions - that doesn't mean I hate the person...again, I am certain you are Paige.
9:33 AM
You are as entitled to your opinions, thoughts and views just like anyone else. Someone doesn't like them, they don't have to read them.. But I can assure you, Audio is not Paige..
For the record, I don't visit the Official Discussion Board very often. They're more into Sharon, I'm more into the case... My interest differs from theirs..
To each their own....
Heaven said...
Salem said...
Heaven said...
They don't discuss this blog over there. I once asked about Col Tate's remains and the post got deleted....
so you are over there and Mark Turner's site and KTS?
busy bee
Where I post is my own business. Thanks
Salem said...
I didnt say you could not post where you chose..Heaven.
I didn't mean it to be rude..
I actually post wherever the discussion is interesting.. The Sharon Tate board is awesome if all you want to discuss is Sharon..
=)
Ok, the smoking picture thing I didn't know....
I like to discuss the case, so the forum isn't really to my liking..
I only had one post removed and that's when I asked about Col Tate. I didn't realize it was off limits...
=)
I have this to say, I always felt Debra had the "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia" syndrome. It always seemed to me Debra used Sharon's name to get her foot in the door. Now she's the sole inheritor of an estate that she is ill-equipped to handle. That she won't allow frank discussions of Sharon's life means she only wants the glossy version.
As for the estate, I cannot imagine what it might be like for Roman to see Sharon's image on a teddy bear or a tee-shirt or a coffee mug. Next it'll be a pen, or even a little flag that you can wave on Sharon's birthday.
One question to ColScott, is Debra still in league with Robin Olson and Chris Simmons?
Welcome back 60skid!
=)
Can you imagine, if he sat through the whole trial how awful that would be? I'm surprised he didn't do something violent, especially after he was the one that had to clean up at Cielo Drive.
Hey 60's, So glad to see you back!! I missed you, and I do hope you are feeling better.
Hugs,
Doc
On a real farm that cat would have been taken care of with a fast hoe to the neck.
Sorry, but thats the reality.
Col, help. This thread is dead.
I second the Doctor! :)
catscradle77 said...
Question-in rereading the Sanders' missive-
Anybody who can use the word missive has my respect, lol.
Nothing yet on the Milford, Michigan caper other than the cupcakes being sold with depictions of Hoffa dead in the icing from the local bakery selling like...well, hotcakes.
If you have ever lived in a small agri town you have to chuckle.
Like carving bear sculptures with a chainsaw. Or selling cron in the summer. Or cutting wood on property you don't own and selling it, lol.
Cats said,
I can whittle purdy darn good...I bet I can make a Hoffa tater....lol..
laughin my ass off.
I need me a darn Hoffa Chee pet,
dammit.
Cats said,
"I wonder if there have been Hoffa sightings??? "
Probably not.
I think of him tho' when I gnaw on ribs.
Those bones remind me that he might just surface some day.
Like your fave hound dog.
A link to some reading on MK Ultra.
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=8294&pst=417170&archival=
Happy reading!
Spooky
salem I was wondering if I could email you. I have a question I would like to ask you if you don't mind.
If you're not comfortable with that I understand. Let me know.
:)
salem, my email is agnosticmonk69@yahoo.com
if you get a chance ring me up and I'll respond back
thanks :)
Savage said...
>>>Linda had a chance to start fresh and threw her life away while the others had their lives taken away from them.<<<<
The others threw their own lives away, Savage, and that includes Susan and Leslie. I know you're smart enough to realize that. They tossed their lives on the trashheap the minute they held people's bodies down and wielded knives against flesh. That was NO ONE'S FAULT BUT THEIR OWN.
Savage, I don't particularly care all that much what you personally think of Linda Kasabian. I know that you do not know her personally, and I know you are being fed rumors and gossip about who she was and is as a person from people who also do not know her, and for some strange reason you perpetuate this idea that she was somehow responsible for the fate of the killers. That is ludicrous to me. They are responsible for their own actions with or without linda's involvement.
That said, you wished DEATH on her in your last post, which I think is a really odd, creepy, and very sad thing to do.
You wished DEATH on her, dude. DEATH. Her life's been a mess filled with heartache, illness, and a family she was not equipped to care for, and you are reveling in her misery - the way Susan Atkins claimed to revel in the taste of Sharon Tate's blood - as though it's some kind of poetic justice for taking the witness stand against the killers.
And I'm the sorry excuse for humanity?
You and I have a slightly different definition of the word "humanity".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Susan the original snitch?
Wasn't she the one who was telling her cellmates about the murders and all those involved. Wasn't it she who testified before the grand jury and pointed the finger at Manson, Tex, Leslie, Patricia and also herself?
I disagree with you Savage, I don't believe that Manson and the others would have ever been acquitted.
There was evidence that placed these people at the Tate house. Not to mention, they each admitted their involvement... Including Susan...
=)
Question-in rereading the Sanders' missive-the 2002 version-he states Sharon was supposed to go sleep at a girlfriends that night-but never mentions who the girlfriend is. Anyone know? And, at what point did she change her mind? If the rumor of her not being home is true, I am just kind of curious because of the phone call tht was made that morning between the Ranch and Cielo...
Hey Cats, I am also reading the Family (2002) version and somewhere just before page 200 Sanders said it was Shelagh Wells' place that she was going to be staying at. Apparently they used to be roommates for a year.
Just read it yesterday.
Cheers!
No worries, Cat.
I read a quote once (who said it I don't remember) but the person said that everyone started to say that they were "supposed to go over to a party" or whatever at Sharon's that night and for whatever reason did not go. This person went on to say that if all the people that said they were supposed to go there would have been the majority of Hollywood so I think the person who made the quote was saying most people were full of it. I think even Roman has commented on how many people said they were going to a party there that night even Robert Evans.
As for Sharon not going to her friend's place, she probably was too tired from the heat and being 9 months pregnant.
I want to know who the heck this Vern Plumtree is though.
Cheers
Savage RDDB-DA said...
>>>>Had Linda kept her mouth shut chances are Manson and the others would have been acquitted. The DA's case was shakey at best and without Linda's testimony, there's no way the DA proves its case.
Linda also testified at Leslie's 2nd Trial. She didn't pass up an opportunity to stick it to the others.<<<
Savage this is where I just don't get you at all. You talk like a loyal member of the Family, as though an aquittal would have been a good thing, as though linda personally betrayed YOU by testifying. Dude, 1969 is long gone and not even Sandra Good is still sitting vigil on the corner.
LOL, yes I'm so sure linda was motivated by the desire to "stick it" to leslie and the others. please. she didn't even know leslie that well. this was not personal. BUT, linda was there. She witnessed leslie exit the car towards the LaBianca home where leslie committed a monstrous act. she SHOULD have testified.
Me, I'm glad someone was there to subsequently take the stand against the killers. they are where they belong. linda bears no responsibility for leslie's prison sentence. only leslie bears responsibility for that. even leslie herself admits that. why can't you?
Don't everyone laugh at once, but what is KTS...?
Thanks...
Spooky
Heaven said...
>>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Susan the original snitch?<<
Good point Heaven, and wasn't there ALL KINDS of snitching going on left right center? For a group that prided themselves on loyalty, there sure was a lot of blabbing.
Susan snitched...
Kitty snitched...
Mary Brunner did some chirping to save her own ass, and then would repudiate her chirping and then, as the Bug called it, "repudiate her repudiation" or something like that...
I think even Bobby did a little blabbing too, didn't he?
Oh and let's not forget - eh em, Savage - that even Leslie did some snitching of her own. She fed some details about the Tate murders to detectives during the investigation. Curiously she left out any mention of Labianca.
Oh but it's all Linda's fault and they're all just poor little victims of Linda's big mouth. LOL. Too funny.
Well, if you count those that testified as snitches then Paul Watkins, Danny DeCarlo, Barbara Hoyt and Stephanie Schram were all snitches... Linda was by no means the only person to testify against Manson and the others. Hers was just an eyewitness account of the events. But others knew what had happened...
Spooky, KTS stands for Killed The Sixties. It's a Yahoo discussion group dedicated to the Manson case...
=)
catscradle77 said...
>>>Hey Monk-
Where was Linda living and what was she doing when Leslie came up for her new trials? Did she stay in contact with the Bug or the prosecution, or did they have to locate her?
Just curious...<<<<
hi Cats, it is my understanding that Linda was back in New Hampshire living with her husband Bob along with Tanya and Angel, trying to make a go of it. They made a home out of a little renovated farm house in the boonies. Linda wanted to be as far away from the spotlight as possible and was quoted as saying she "never wants to see California again."
By the time of Leslie's re-trial, they were still in New Hampshire. She was still in contact with the prosecution. I am unsure of the exact technical/legal details of her return for re-trials but they did not have to track her down. When Squeaky attempted to assasinate President Ford, investigators flew to New Hampshire to talk with Linda thinking she may know something or thinking she may have been in contact with Family members (she did not know anything and had not been in touch with them. I mean, duh, right?).
She was quoted at one point as saying she felt that appearing at the re-trials was part of her "penance".
Heaven said...
>>>Well, if you count those that testified as snitches then Paul Watkins, Danny DeCarlo, Barbara Hoyt and Stephanie Schram were all snitches... Linda was by no means the only person to testify against Manson and the others. Hers was just an eyewitness account of the events. But others knew what had happened...<<<
Ooops I forgot about them, heaven, thanks for the reminder. Yup, very long list of snitches.
I wonder if those who testified ever got together for a post-trial reunion of emotional support for each other? I would imagine they would need it considering who they were testifying against and how the defendants and vigil-sitters conducted themselves. I'd be scared shitless for my life knowing Squeaky was running around with a buck knife.
I also wonder something about Paul Watkins. My memory is hazy with regards to his testifying. Was it ever made clear exactly why he was so cooperative? Did they have something over his head? Or was he just trying to right what he saw as a wrong? I get the sense (and this is just a personal interpretation that could be completely off-base) from his appearance in the 1972 Manson doc that he had stars in his eyes for himself and his music.
catscradle77 said...
>>.What a heavy penance, and having to live in her head. I wonder how Bob dealt with everything-how long were they together, if they didn't split up? I mean, we all come with baggage but....<<<
they did split up eventually. Not sure exactly when. then I think they reunited again years later only to split up again. I don't think marital fidelity was on Bob Kasabian's list of priorities, and then Linda fell back into her speed addiction which she had tried to kick in the 70's.
I think it was too much for the whole family, having been a part of all this. it was allegedly far-reaching. relatives of linda's said it devastated all of their lives.
>>>I wonder if her neighbors flipped out, or even if they knew who she was?<<<<
She didn't have much trouble in New Hampshire with neighbors and townspeople. I don't think many people cared all that much about her past. it was when she relocated with the children to various towns in the pacific northwest and then remarried that things got ugly. That's when people in her community freaked out because her former married name sounded similar to Krenwinkle and therefore some people thought she had actually done the stabbings.
I'm just amazed that anyone would think that these people even stood the chance of an acquittal...
With all the evidence against them, that was never going to happen..
=)
catscradle77 said...
>>>Any word on Bob or Linda today? Coming from the commune era-I wonder if he ever felt badly about his infidelities, or if Linda accepted them as Sharon supposedly did with Roman's? How long was Linda clean before she relapsed I wonder...was she a big speeder when she was on the Ranch?<<<
If Robert Kasabian had any sense, he would most certainly have to feel some guilt about all this. Not that any of it was directly his fault (it wasn't). Linda made her own choices, but had he not hooked up with other women in LA Linda probably would have not stumbled upon Spahn nor had any desire to stay there. She left New Hampshire in 69 with Tanya to be with her husband in California. And remember that Bob Kasabian introduced Linda to Gypsy through Charles Melton who was also friends with Tex and Paul Watkins.
>>>Not to get crazy on ya Monk-but do you know Linda? Or know someone who does? You just seem to have a lot in yer heart for her and a lot of knowledge about her life...and I don't mean that in a negative way whatsoever..<<<<
the witness protection program prevents me from answering this question..
:p
catscradle77 said...
>>>Thanks Monk for the laugh-needed it..and thanks for answering...kinda getting to understand Linda..and maybe liking her a little..maybe :)<<<
cats it's not my goal to get people to 'like' Linda. Can't white-wash what she did. It was wrong to go along on the second night, and it was wrong to not go directly to the police.
BUT there are people out there that promote all kinds of bizarre conspiracy theories and assign tons of sinister motives to her actions, when really her story is actually quite simple. Some want us to believe she was The Devilette From The Bowels Of Hell. They are (forgive me boys) completely full of shit, IMHO. Making Linda out to be the Devilette serves an ulterior motive, which is to make someone ELSE involved in the case look better than they do (Charlie, Susan, whomever, you name it). This pint-sized petite blonde woman is an easy scapegoat because of her importance to the prosecution, her immunity deal, and her subsequent life problems.
You should also know that Linda is so small that she lives in my pocket and that's how I know when she's crying.
:)
Linda simply took a deal that ANY of them would have taken if given the chance.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KILLEDTHESIXTIES/
Heaven said...
>>>>Linda simply took a deal that ANY of them would have taken if given the chance.<<<
Agreed Heaven. I don't believe for a second that Sadie, Leslie or anyone else would have turned down the opportunity to walk, period.
Salem said...
>>>Linda was in NH same time Sandy was in Vermont.
mid 80's.
I do beleive. altho there was probally NO communication.
:)<<<<
Salem, don't you think it's time Sandy and Linda sat down for some tea?
Surely enough time has passed that they can both forgive and forget all that ancient craziness. They had some things in common, their love of the environment and animals and natural living.
You and I could bake cookies for them and babysit their grandkids.
:)
Savage RDDB-DA said...
Agnostic Monk:
>>>I'd like to have Linda sit down with Susan, Patricia and Leslie .... preferably in the same cell.<<<
And what would be the point of that? Would they still blame Linda for where they are? I doubt it. I think all three have matured at least to the point where they realize they and they alone put themselves where they are. if these women really are remorseful and own up to their actions, Linda doesn't even factor into it. She just desribed the events to the jury, but the events happened because the three women along with Tex made them happen.
>>>It may be that Manson was comfortable with the prison lifestyle but I can think of three girls that would have much rather have avoided that experience.<<<
And they could have avoided it by not killing people. Linda does no factor into their choice to kill. Unless Linda is capable of some kind of Vulcan mind-control that none of us are aware of.
>>>Linda was no less culpable than Leslie was.<<<<
Au contraire mon frère. I'm not aware of any evidence of Linda piercing anyone's flesh with shiney knives and later claiming it was fun.
>>>Linda could have come foward about voyteck and that would have nullified Bugliosi's theory about Helter Skelter. That's on Linda's head.<<<<
oh jesus that's right the LINDA WAS RAPED BY VOYTECK gossip. LOL.
>>>>Linda has one chance to make amens for what happened<<<<
Yeah she needs to come clean and fess up about forcing Leslie to stab Rosemary Labianca and forcing Susan to hold Sharon Tate down on the couch for Tex to stab her. LOL.
Savage RDDB-DA said...
It may be that Manson was comfortable with the prison lifestyle but I can think of three girls that would have much rather have avoided that experience.
Interesting.. I bet the victims would much rather not have been murdered.
Heaven said...
>>>Interesting.. I bet the victims would much rather not have been murdered.<<<
Yeah well it's their fault for getting in the way of the killer's knives, no?
Sadie/Leslie/Katie's current station in life seems to be the fault of everyone BUT Sadie/Leslie/Katie. Why not the victim's too fault too?
If only Rosemary had not thrust herself into the line of fire of Leslie's knife, poor little Leslie would not be enduring prison right now.
Well, Cats...
Looks like another wild goose chase with the Hoffa thing.
But the guy supposedly passed a lie detector test.
That brings me to my opinion of lie detector tests:
Lawyers have their clients take privately administered ones when the DA is involved...with good reason. The DA is fishing. And not always in the person's best interest.
Lie detector tests can be overcome.
Lie detector tests are indicators and the results can be misconstrued.
Lie detector test administrators admit that it has an error rate...of course they quote a very low rate of error, wouldnt you if you were them?
Look at the Garretson Lie detector transcripts. Full of holes, the guy was lying and what happened?
A notation?
Cat said,
"irony, gotta love it...a liar testing others to see if they are lying..."
Whoa...never thought about it from that angle...the whole thing stinks. Whenever "lie detector" comes into a conversation, my bullshit detector turns on, lol.
Cats said,
"Billy G. is/was lying.."
Total agreement, but what was he lying for?
This is the inroad to solving unanswered questions about the case. ColScott seems to have gone off the track.
Unless Bobby B. had a connection with Garretson.
Homosexual?
Homosexual cover up to avoid embarrassment to someone? Hmmmm?
Cats said,
"And if Charlie, or Tex, or Sadie or anyone cam eout and told us the truth...would we believe them...and if it were really simple, would we feel kinda cheated... "
Charlie is brain dead.
Tex is so far into his bullshit he aint gonna come clean.
Sadie might come clean but she dont know it all.
Maybe Bobby B. should come clean.
Did Bobby B. have a homosexual relationship with Garretson or Parent?
Lets suppose Bobby B. had a relationship (sex and stuff) with Garretson. And was a regular visitor to the guest house. And was protective of Garretson. And sold drugs to Frykowsky. And partied with the hollywood set including Sharon and Folger.
Let the imaginations fly.
Cats said,
">>Okay-but the problem I have with Bobby and being protective of Billy...Hinman and Bobby had a relationship too..what made his and Billy's any different? Bobby killed Hinman-so why wouldn't he kill Billy?"
I dont know if Bobby B had a sexual relationship with Hinman.
Bobby B. hasnt come clean in my opinion.
I wouldnt either if I was facing what he is facing.
But just think if Bobby B. was at TLB in the guesthouse for awhile..for five minutes..for two seconds.
At the right moment.
Cats said,
"But if that is the case, why wasn't the guesthouse searched that night as well".
Searched by Krenwinkle?
or Charlie later?
The point is that the guesthouse was in on the deal.
Everybody knew everybody.
Garretson had lived there for the last year (about) and knew everybody that was around. If you question that, I think you are foolin' yourself.
Cats said,
"the problem I have is the dogs"
Me too, Cats. But if Bobby B. was there..no problem.
Lots of possibilities here, you know?
Cats said,
"But Bobby was in jail at the time of Cielo..Linda and the "
Would have been a nice theory, huh?
Dont discount the homosexual ring.
catscradle77 said...
>>>But Bobby was in jail at the time of Cielo..Linda and the dogs??? (sorry Monk)<<<
hey cats no need to be sorry, it's a free country and you are free to speculate about linda all you want. i dont take it personally (especially not from you). I only get a little miffed when I hear people wishing death on her, pretending she is responsible for the jail experience of the killers, and talking about rumors as though they are fact.
As far as the dogs, I don't recall Linda mentioning any barking during her testimony.
Ironically, many of the family people LOVED dogs. Patricia and Linda are the two that come to mind the most who I think had a particular affection for dogs and horses.
Speaking as a big giant DORK when it comes to dogs (cats you know how crazy i am about dogs), I would imagine they would easily recall hearing the dogs going crazy. Dog people are attuned to the sound of distressed dogs to the point where it becomes very hard to tune them out.
Rudy was living in the guesthouse as late as March, 1969...when he flew to Europe with Sharon...so Billy lived there sometime after that....only a few months at best...and when did Dean live there? After Rudy left in March...or was it in '68? And when did the brother of the chick who lived down the street (Keenan Wynn's kids...Van Johnson's step kids?)who saw the killers car live there?
catscradle77 said...
>>I just didn't want ya to think I was picking on Linda Monkilicious<<
lol cats do you think if I married Linda she would change her name to
Linda Monkilicious?
:)
LOL!!! And then Linda appears on the balcony chirping "Don't cry for me monkilicious! The truth is I *NEVER* left you!"
Enter stage right: Savage, dressed as Che Guevara shaking a violent finger towards the balcony; "You let down the Family, Miss Linda! You've BETRAYED my Leslie and Susan!"
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