Saturday, April 08, 2006

Nam Ryenge Ho Part TWO


Talking Points for today.

1- The Family knew Gary. Mary had stayed with him at his house. They, and other youth, stayed at Gary's place.
2- Gary, if not gay, was at least bisexual and used his music teaching business as a cover to provide drugs and meet boys.
3- Bobby was bisexual and considered Gary a friend. Bobby and some of the girls would get drugs off Gary.

Okay. If we accept (as I do) that this is all true, then we have something VERY different from TLB going on. Because Gary KNEW his killers. Worse yet, he considered Bobby and Mary friends- they had been to his house many times. Mary stayed there some nights while pregnant when she couldn't make it back to Spahn. I have zero evidence that Bobby ever slept with Gary. But they both swung that way. Remember, though no one has ever commented on it, as the story goes, Gary speaks to Charlie when he comes in the door as if Charlie is gonna stop Bobby and the girls from being mean to him. Nobody notes that if true, GARY KNEW CHARLIE. He also knew Bruce Davis, who came with Charlie. (another reason why the new HS film is such crap- almost NONE of these people were shown at Hinman). It's almost as if... dare I say it... Gary Allen Hinman was a part of the Family.

I mean, if BOBBY was in the Family, and he only came by occasionally to screw girls and make music, then GARY was too, right? I mean he only came to the ranch a few times. But he knew everybody and his house was a crah pad. If you think about it, it makes sense.

The question the BUG could not afford to look at, which we have to, is , "Why are we all acting like this one drug deal was the ONLY drug deal?"

Let's say that Gary Hinman was part of the Family. Let's say that he regularly provided them with drugs to deal (unless Bobby out of a clear blue sky guessed Gary had drugs). Let's say that the Straight Satan burn was only the last straw in shit that had gone down between him and them.

Because if you are gonna go threaten somebody you don't take two little girls, no matter how psychotic.

The muscle came in AFTERWARDS and left them to clean up after.

What else could Gary have done?
Why was Bobby sent? (Mary had lived there, Sadie was crazy)
Why did Gary resist?

Remember, throughout this, Gary promised repeatedly that he would go to the police. He obviously did not think he would be killed.

370 comments:

1 – 200 of 370   Newer›   Newest»
Heaven said...

I'm only guessing here, but maybe Gary was privy to other information regarding things at the ranch...

Maybe Manson was concerned that Gary would go to the police..

The ranch had stolen cars, guns, drugs and underage girls. The last thing Manson would have wanted were the cops sniffing around...

Again, I'm only guessing.

=)

catscradle77 said...
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closed blog said...

I agree. I think that Gary may have been privy to things that Charlie felt could have landed him back in jail had Gary run off and told the police.

Gary may have known a little too much about the goings on at Spahn and there's a real good chance that he may have picked up some things from some of the girls. The girls were very chatty and Gary might have learned some things that made him too much of a risk for Charlie.

If Hinman had to be killed, chances are it had something to do with Hinman knowing something that could have sent Manson back to jail. The problems with the Straight Satans may have been the breaking point.

Bobby, Mary and Susan being sent to the hinman house to collect money makes sense. If they were sent to kill hinman, then Bobby would have had some additional help in either Clem or Bruce.

I did that segment of the latest HS movie was interesting where Bobby gets off the phone with CM and says to Hinman, "Charlie's pissed at you man".

That may very well have been the case when it did go down.

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Heaven said...

I dunno if anyone is still reading the Doggies Round Up thread, but Bugliosi didn't bring the newspaper into the courtroom. Daye Shinn did...

I posted the whole story in that thread, for anyone who may be interested...

=)

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Dok said...

Hey Col, a couple of threads back you were asking where the connection was between all the victims and "The Family", could it be Hinman? Could he have been the drug connection that tied them all together?Maybe Melcher and Wilson knew him too. If this is already know fact to you and others here who know more about this case then I, forgive me. I'm just now thinking that the key could be Hinman.

Hello Kitty!

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chasingbunnies said...

Catscradle said...
I aint dat col...but sounds like something...I don't know about how the hierachy of the drug scene ran back that...but didnt someone usually deal with one main supplier..just kinda curious about the set-up..
And I know Dear Doktor-being curious hurt alot of kitties..
----
Not sure myself but LSD25 was still legal up until the mid sixties and from what I understand, most folks in the San Fran Haight area got their supply from a guy called called 'Bear' Owsley, he was considered to be the ultimate alchemist. I don't know if mescaline was also supplied by Owsley. Mescaline was inferior to acid but it was a good substitute I guess. I would guess that the main suppliers of these drugs back then were more than likely indiviuals who manufactiured it. Chemists and people like that. Until it became illegal then you had to deal with really mean people like biker groups, and the mob. Isn't mescaline organic? Like from a plant that has been around forever?? Just asking....

11:43 AM

chasingbunnies said...

How come nobody wants to talk about Manson's dealings with the HA's? Manson himself said he was dealing with them...

chasingbunnies said...

http://www.erowid.org

I go here when I have any questions about drugs, but this site doesn't say who dealt drugs back then...oh well.

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chasingbunnies said...

In Fact Uncle said the HA freaked out when they found out people from the ranch were connected to tates. The HA thought it would come back on them, as they had been to the ranch alot.for drugs....not sex.
;)
---------
Who was dealing speed to who? Did Charlie get it from an ex-con he knew? Or did the HA's deal it to CM? Also, CM used speed in his earlier years, so why would he be upset if anyone on the ranch used speed. Tex and Susan were sneaking it and hiding it from CM. Where were they getting it? The HA's? Several members of the Oakland chapter of the HA's said themselves that they had ties to the mob in the sixties and kind of regret that chapter in their lives. The HA's got pissed because they had to give a large percentage of the money to the mob. So they split and started dealing it themselves. Probably got it in Mexico from the Yaki Indians or, Pablo Escobar LOL

2:17 PM

chasingbunnies said...

Charlie talked about partying with the Yaki Indians during his trips to Mexico. He said people were frightened of the Yaki's but that he had a fine time with them

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chasingbunnies said...

Salem said...
Tex hit up some speed he and Sadie hid under dat porch before going to the Tate's, what else were they hiding?

ya!!!!!!!
all i know is from my uncle and my ex hubby. that were both in the HA.
Uncle was called Black Jack, went to the ranch many times:)

2:09 PM

---------
If any crime spree looked "speed-fueled" it was the TLB murders. Whenever I read about a horrifying crime, I see that towareds the end of the article it almost always says that meth was involved. Believe me, it's THE WORST DRUG ON THE PLANET! You put that drug in your system along with hallucinogens and cripes--all hell brakes loose. There is also a thing called "speed tripping" where just speed alone causes hallucinations and paranoia. Like speed addicted parents who torture and kill their 4 year old kid because they thought the child was "really Satan." Two guardians here in California got the death penalty for what they did to their litte daughter. Couple of meth heads. BTW the actual mother of this little girl was in rehab for guess what? METH addiction. I had a good friend who pulled a gun on me during one of her meth binges.

chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
ChasingBunnies said...
Charlie talked about partying with the Yaki Indians during his trips to Mexico. He said people were frightened of the Yaki's but that he had a fine time with them

I memeber hearing something like that..they like to trip didnt they?

-----
Yes, and they also like to chew on cocoa leaves (speed ingredients) at the end of the work day.

chasingbunnies said...

Heaven said...
I'm only guessing here, but maybe Gary was privy to other information regarding things at the ranch...

Maybe Manson was concerned that Gary would go to the police..

The ranch had stolen cars, guns, drugs and underage girls. The last thing Manson would have wanted were the cops sniffing around...

Again, I'm only guessing.

=)

9:10 AM
-------
What doesn't make sense with this theory is that Hinman was a drug dealer...why would any drug dealer go to the cops, lol...

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chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
CB said:
What doesn't make sense with this theory is that Hinman was a drug dealer...why would any drug dealer go to the cops, lol...

I was thinking that...I mean"Excuse me, mr. Po-Po, I know you is da 5-0 and stuff, but they ripped me off in a drug deal...

3:11 PM
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I KNOW!!! LMAO!!

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chasingbunnies said...

Did Hinman or anyone else that met their heinous death happen to know Lottsapoppa?

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Satori said...

chasingbunnies asked: Isn't mescaline organic? Like from a plant that has been around forever?? Just asking....

Mescaline is the drug that is synthesized from the peyote cactus.

Mesacline, while made from an organic compound, is actually what is called a semi-synthetic. So it is partly organic and partly a chemical compound.

I've never read what the process for extracting mescaline from peyote cactus is, but I would imagine that it would at least require some knowledge of chemistry.

Anyone know if Hinman had such training?

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closed blog said...

Has anyone noticed that the two items being offered by "Nuelsaid" on EBay have mysteriously disappeared?

Salem said...
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Jane Doe said...

Just letting everyone know that some people are in the chat room now.

Jane Doe said...

An original Beausoleil painting is for sale on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOBBY-BEAUSOLEIL-Original-Painting-Kenneth-Anger_W0QQitemZ7404310428QQcategoryZ20135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dok said...

What chat room?

Jane Doe said...

The one at charliemanson.com.

catscradle77 said...
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Dok said...

Hello Kitty! Wow I thought my peeps here with the Col were leaving me out of the loop. What's the deal with Turner? I've notice him mentioned a lot of late. I know the Col, my main man with the skinny on TLB, is not to found of Turner. I personally don't know a lot, but I'm learning.

catscradle77 said...
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closed blog said...

Jane Doe,

There are others still for sale at the main gallery website as well.

http://www.clairobscurgallery.com/gallery_beausoleil_2.htm

Jane Doe said...

I like Beausoleil's art, but I prefer his music.

I'm listening to the Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band cd now and will probably put Lucifer Rising on next. It's excellent. Learning about the Manson Family has certainly expanded my musical interests.

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Jane Doe said...

To each his/her own.

Lucifer Rising is one of the most beautiful musical compositions I've ever heard. It's very moving and affects me quite deeply. I view it as a bridge that connects me to extreme possibilities.

Manson's music was good too. The first time I heard Ra-Hide Away! I played it for three hours straight. Then I played it for days afterwards. The line "look inside yourself for your father" from I'll Never Say Never to Always is very touching. A person who didn't know his/her parent would be forced to piece together a composite of who the person might have been based on their own constitution. (Taken literally however, the incestuous message is undeniable).

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chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
Jane Doe said...
I like Beausoleil's art, but I prefer his music.


Cat said...I dont like his music..sounds like bad porn background music...ummm...and my kid makes a better racket on his trumpet...and all I can say as the ex of a drummer is it NEEDS MORE COWBELL

6:49 PM

-----------
OMG!!! Cats! HAAAAAAAAAAA! I saw that on SNL! Will Farrel cracked me up soooo much with the 'more cowbell'...the lead singer laughed his ass off when he saw that.
BOC now does the cowbell when they tour and the audience goes wild with laughter..

Dong ding dong dong---
All our times have come
Here but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain..we can be like they are
Come on baby...don’t fear the reaper--Dong ding dong dong
Baby take my hand...don’t fear the reaper
We’ll be able to fly...don’t fear the reaper
Baby I’m your man...
Dong ding dong dong
Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Romeo and juliet
Are together in eternity...romeo and juliet
Dong ding dong dong
40,000 men and women everyday...like romeo and juliet
40,000 men and women everyday...redefine happiness
Another 40,000 coming everyday...we can be like they are
Come on baby...don’t fear the reaper
Baby take my hand...don’t fear the reaper
We’ll be able to fly...don’t fear the reaper
Baby I’m your DONG DING DONG man...

Love of two is one
Dong ding dong dong
Here but now they’re gone
Came the last night of sadness
And it was clear she couldn’t go on
Then the door was open and the wind appeared
The candles blew then disappeared
The curtains flew then he appeared...saying don’t be afraid
Dong dong dong
Come on baby...and she had no fear
And she ran to him...then they started to fly
Ding dong ding dong
They looked backward and said goodby...she had become like ding dongs
She had taken his hand...she had become like they are
Ding dongs
Come on baby...don’t fear the Ding dongs
DONG DONG DONG DONG
LOL

Jane Doe said...

That's a great song.

chasingbunnies said...

Jane Doe said...
That's a great song.

8:02 PM
-----------

I love BOC's "Burnin For You" it gets me all .... well, take a wild guess, lol

Jane Doe said...

I'm listening to Eleanor Rigby right now. It's quite sad and my favorite song on Revolver.

chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
Jane Doe said...
I like Beausoleil's art, but I prefer his music.


I dont like his music..sounds like bad porn background music...ummm...and my kid makes a better racket on his trumpet...and all I can say as the ex of a drummer is it NEEDS MORE COWBELL

6:49 PM
---------
His art would make great tattoes
And I agree with Cat about his music...I dunno..I am no art critic or music critic, but Bo-Bo's stuff just doesn't do it for me.

Theres a song called "All The Way Alive" that CM sings and it makes me cry whenever I hear it. It reminds me of the big band era and I love that stuff.

Jane Doe said...

A band called Scramblehead came out with a cd called Valley of the Bugs and it's full of Manson's music. That's what I'm playing now.

60skid said...

Savage,

Has anyone noticed that the two items being offered by "Nuelsaid" on EBay have mysteriously disappeared

I wonder why

catscradle77 said...
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Satori said...

60skid asked: Has anyone noticed that the two items being offered by "Nuelsaid" on EBay have mysteriously disappeared

I wonder why


It has always been my understanding that eBay does not allow anyone to sell true crime memorabilia on their website.

I imagine that they removed the listing because it violated eBay policy.

+++

Unrelated Question: Does anyone know the lyrics to the Manson song Riding on Your Fears? If yes, could you post them or email them to me?

Thanks.

Satori said...

catscradle77 said: Gary was near getting his PH.D in Sociology from UCLA and had an undergrad degree in Chemistry..(according to info in Sanders pg 179 the 2002 version.

Yes, now I remember the part about him working on his PhD (but had forgotten about the chemistry degree; its been quite a long while since I read Sanders' book).

That Hinman had chemistry knowledge and was making mescaline pretty much says to me that he was very likely dealing in fairly large quantities, which in turn meant that he was probably making no small sum of money. (I'm a child of the era myself and remember that in my area, uncapped, bulk mescaline powder sold for about $150.00 an ounce. You could get about 100 hits out of an ounce and sell them for about three bucks a piece).

I wonder just how much money Gary was making through his drug dealing and more importantly, who all knew it?

Drug dealers with lots of drugs and cash on hand make tempting targets for robbery in the criminal underworld. It was/is usually assumed by would-be robbers that drug dealers either will not or cannot go to the police if they get robbed of drugs and drug money.

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Satori said...

catscradle77 wrote: . . . so is the bad batch a cover for the visitors trying to get Gary to cough up some bucks? And where is all Gary's money?

People feared outlaw-type bikers back then (heck, many people still do) and I would venture a geuss that the "you sold bad mescaline to a group of bikers who are now very pissed off at you" scenario would be enough to put fear into anyone.

Has anyone ever confirmed that such a bogus deal every actually went down, i.e., has someone confirmed this with a member of the biker gang who got the bad doep? (Without confirmation, one could surmise that this was simply being used as a threat to put the fear into Gary).

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Satori said...

catscradle77 wrote: So the part of Gary saying he would go to the police-does that ring true with you? From what I read, it takes a while to make a batch, a long process, and I wonder what the cops found in Gary's house..

The little that I know about Gary Hinman makes me believe that he was the sort who would choose saving his own skin over something like money, him being a Buddhist.

Again, if I was being threatened by someone, including the fear that a biker gang was seeking retribution, I would figure that going to the cops would be choosing the lesser of the evils.

Just a thought. . .

Satori said...

catscradle77: The only confirmation I have heard is from Bobby..so I take that with a grain of salt..if Suzan (Rosemary's daughter) was running with Joe Dorgan from I believe the Satans..the Satans hung at the Ranch..Charlie admits to knowing Dorgan..do you think it was possible that Rosemary was holding funds?

I’m afraid that I can’t help you there as I know very little about that area of the case (i.e., what, if any part, Rosemary LaBianca might have had in behind the scenes stuff).

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chasingbunnies said...

Satori said...
Again, if I was being threatened by someone, including the fear that a biker gang was seeking retribution, I would figure that going to the cops would be choosing the lesser of the evils.

Just a thought. . .

9:33 AM
-----
Hinman was up to his eyeballs in criminal activitiy regarding making and distributing illegal drugs. Back in those days getting popped for dealing was not the lesser of two evils. He would've done some hard time. I know this because of a couple of friends who were busted dealing pot, and they both did 3 years. Hinman was on his way to getting a Phd in sociology and he had a degree in chemistry. The cops would've thrown the book at him. He begged for his life for three days rather than go to the police, and possibly doing some time in San Quentin. I just can't see a drug dealer going to the cops because someone was threatening them. Makes no sense. Oh well....

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chasingbunnies said...

Hinman had no idea that he was going to be murdered, so he chose to stay the course with Bobby. By the ime CM showd up and sliced his ear half off it was too late. It's not that Hinman wanted to choose the lesser of two evils. Meaning Prison or fightig over some dope burn. I truly believe that Hinman thought he could talk, or fight his way out of this situation but did not know he would wind up DEAD. There is no way he would've gone to the police. His place was a crash pad for hippies, and with the the attitude police had towards hippies back then?? NO WAY would he have gone to the cops.?--Not with drugs, hippies, and guns all over the place... Where does this information come from. BUGGY'S book? Has it been verified by anyone else, besides witnesess for the Bug in return for making the truth disappear?

2:14 PM

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Spahn84 said...

Cat chick,

THe Bug was the best.I have his picture on my wall. He signed it and all.

Heaven tell her The Bug is the best

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60skid said...

Satori,
Some of your thoughts on your web site about the old story ..about Paul Mc Cartney being dead are inresting
-----------------------------------
It has always been my understanding that eBay does not allow anyone to sell true crime memorabilia on their website.

I imagine that they removed the listing because it violated eBay policy.

I never knew that

Jane Doe said...

catscradle77 said...

"I dont know what the trial transcripts of any of those who got popped for the Hinman murder say..but I remember reading that Buggy made a huge deal of how one of the other attorneys was mispronoucing his name and threw a temper tantrum..I dont remember were I read that.."

The mispronunciation was brought up during the trial of Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkle and Van Houten:

KANAREK: Well, your Honor, may I have a continuing objection and a continuing request to admonish, because this is most prejudicial what Mr. Bugliosi is eliciting.

BUGLIOSI: The "G" is silent, sir. It is Bugliosi.

KANAREK: I am sorry.

OLDER: Let’s proceed.

That exchange can be found here:

http://www.charliemanson.com/documents/testimony-kasabian-2.htm

Spahn84 said...

Spahn84 said...
Cat chick,

Thats Ms. Cat Chick to you.


Who are you .I can not see you know anything about this case.

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60skid said...

Cat chick,

THe Bug was the best.I have his picture on my wall. He signed it and all.

Heaven tell her The Bug is the best


I can not believe any one would put the Bug on there wall.. I would if I could slap it.LOL

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Satori said...

60skid said... Satori,
Some of your thoughts on your web site about the old story ..about Paul Mc Cartney being dead are inresting


Oh cool, I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

The whole "Paul is Dead" thing is actually rather silly, but still something that I find to be a lot of fun to read about and to consider (especially the whole looking for clues on the album covers and in the music part -- that always reminds me of the Manson case as I learned about both at virtually the same time when I was a kid).

60skid said... It has always been my understanding that eBay does not allow anyone to sell true crime memorabilia on their website.

I imagine that they removed the listing because it violated eBay policy.

I never knew that


The only reason why I know it is because I once tried to list a bunch of letters that I received from David Berkowitz for sale on eBay.

They were only up for less than a day before I was contacted by their staff and told I would have to remove the listing.

Any sort of true crime item violates their terms of service.

60skid said...

Satori,

The whole "Paul is Dead" thing is actually rather silly, but still something that I find to be a lot of fun to read about and to consider (especially the whole looking for clues on the album covers and in the music part -- that always reminds me of the Manson case as I learned about both at virtually the same time when I was a kid).

I very much remember The Paul is dead story. At the time ..My friends and I were all upset to think Paul was dead.
___________________________________

Wow letters from Son Of Sam I bet those letters where intresting

Spahn84 said...

well I bet Spahn knows it all!
maybe he/she will inform us! LOL


I learned everything I know about this case.From The Bug and Heaven
I am very well informed.

Jane Doe said...
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Jane Doe said...

catscradle77 said...

"Thanks Jane...I think Buggy said Kanerek was doing it on purpose.."

My pleasure.

Can you imagine the reaction if Kanarek had called Bugliosi "The Bug", during trial? That nickname is funnier than Sadie Mae Glutz.

Spahn84 said...

THe Bug was the best.I have his picture on my wall. He signed it and all.


LMAO!!!!!
too funny!
are u his kid?

How did you guess.I worship The Bug. His picture is the only thing I got in my divorce.

Spahn84 said...

thr the grapewine i heard heaven was a moderater on a forum that WR has???
my my my
what a world....

What website is that ?? I want to belong .I know all the facts are right if Heaven is there

Satori said...

60skid said: Wow letters from Son Of Sam I bet those letters where intresting

Well, some of them are and some of them aren't . . .

I corresponded with Berkowitz for about six months while doing research for a story I was writing at the time.

What I learned is that he is actually completely full of BS for the most part. And once he decided to stop cooperating with me (after I called him on his BS), all I could get out of him were religious tracts and Bible quoutes . . .

60skid said...

Satori,


What I learned is that he is actually completely full of BS for the most part. And once he decided to stop cooperating with me (after I called him on his BS), all I could get out of him were religious tracts and Bible quoutes . . .

Sounds like he has not changed much

chasingbunnies said...

If the Followers of CM wanted to end the war, clean the air, save the trees and the water then why did they kill movie stars, and grocery store owners? Why not go to Washington DC and kill the real POLITICAL PIGGIES like LBJ, Nixon and those f*cking politicians who were the ones who started that war and those politicians who kept it going and were "fighting that war with one hand tied around their balls." Abbie Hoffman, and those guys were the ones that made everyone stop and take a look at what a sorry ass war Nam was. It was a political war in a country that never attacked us on our land. Nobody cared about Vietnam becoming a communist country. It was not a Holy War and we weren't fighting a bunch of stone age thinking religious fanatics that wear table cloths on their heads. The real pigs were on the East coast. BTW I lived near DC in the 60s and I went to a march on Washington in 1971 and hundreds of thousands of people were camped out on Capital Hill in sleeping bags, and tents--ya got stoned just breathig the air, it was really awesome! Abbie Hoffman was there railing away, and he did use the "F" word constantly...There were groups like the Merry Pranksters doing crazy shit...Gorilla theater is what it was called. It was hilarious. The Vietnam Vets Against The War were there. Hell I probably got groped by one of them. I don't really remember the entire scene because I was with friends and we were all trashed..Plus famous bands were there like the CS&N, the Airplane, Johnny Winters, Commander Cody, and the Grateful Dead to name a few. I remember Country Joe and The Fish were there who sang "Gimmie an F, gimmie a U etc" lol...Everyone was partying and they even tagged the Washington Monument. How was Gary Hinman a "political piggie" and if CM's so called followers wanted to get to The Black Panthers that was the place to go. Not Benedict Canyon. They could've taken out hundreds of piggies, the entire National Guard if they really, REALLY gave it some thought. Just saying...

agnostic monk said...

ChasingBunnies said...
>>>>If the Followers of CM wanted to end the war, clean the air, save the trees and the water then why did they kill movie stars, and grocery store owners?<<<<



Hi Bunnies, I'd say there are two possible answers to your question.

#1: They just weren't that bright. Between the drugs and their own failure to be effective at much of anything, they concocted this dumbshit scheme to end the war and stop pollution with obviously dismal results. I've always wondered; if this was really the motivation behind the murders, why didn't SOMEONE pipe up and say "Hey wait a minute this is a really STUPID fucking idea. Let's re-think, shall we?"

#2: This whole idea that the murders occurred out of a desire to stop the war and save the planet is a revisionist history bullshit fantasy by Charlie and Sandra Good. Granted, such thoughts may have been on the minds of some Family members and been discussed from time-to-time at the campfire, but that doesn't mean Tex, Sadie, Katie, and Leslie were thinking about the good of the planet when they mercilessly stabbed away (as Charlie and Sandra would like us to believe).

My bet is on #2.

:)

chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
CB said:
Where does this information come from. BUGGY'S book? Has it been verified by anyone else, besides witnesess for the Bug in return for making the truth disappear?

One two three Poof goes da truth..some people actually read dat Buggy's book and say they find information in there..I dont know what the trial transcripts of any of those who got popped for the Hinman murder say..but I remember reading that Buggy made a huge deal of how one of the other attorneys was mispronoucing his name and threw a temper tantrum..I dont remember were I read that..but I betcha Buggy left that outta his book..for the prosecutor-I am sure he left out alot of the court doings and only put in his most memorable moments...

5:24 PM

----
It's been so long since I read Helter Skelter but I am pretty sure BUGGY mentioned the mispronunciation of his name in his book. I have the book, and I am tempted to re-read it just to get a good laugh. For GOD-sakes...that man took one look at Manson and you know damn well that he saw Manson's prison record, the crimes Manson committed in the past, and just the way Manson looked, and he wanted Charlie back in prison preferably on Death Row. So, he cooked up a bunch of bull shit Bible/Beatles crap with the help of Al Springer and Danny DeCarlo (I think it was them?)Springer and DeCarlo weren't even on the ranch very often, and weren't so-called core members. He used others to agree with that fairy tale. He wanted Manson. He was repulsed by Manson and blamed him for the actions of the others. Mr. District Attorney also wanted to go down in history as the famous wonder boy who took down the boogieman, and the 'followers' helped him with their big fat blabbery mouths, and personally I think BUGGY planted that HS theory into their heads and they agreed just to save themselves from going to prison. BUGGY made millions off of CM (he even released a 25 year anniversery edition of that book and added some stuff like "where are they now" but that doesn't change the fact that he is a narcissist, (and has a small weenie...)
lol

chasingbunnies said...

Agnostic Monk said...
Hi Bunnies, I'd say there are two possible answers to your question.

#1: They just weren't that bright. Between the drugs and their own failure to be effective at much of anything, they concocted this dumbshit scheme to end the war and stop pollution with obviously dismal results. I've always wondered; if this was really the motivation behind the murders, why didn't SOMEONE pipe up and say "Hey wait a minute this is a really STUPID fucking idea. Let's re-think, shall we?"

#2: This whole idea that the murders occurred out of a desire to stop the war and save the planet is a revisionist history bullshit fantasy by Charlie and Sandra Good. Granted, such thoughts may have been on the minds of some Family members and been discussed from time-to-time at the campfire, but that doesn't mean Tex, Sadie, Katie, and Leslie were thinking about the good of the planet when they mercilessly stabbed away (as Charlie and Sandra would like us to believe).

"My bet is on #2."
----
I tend to agree with you. They got those ideas (killing piggies) from Abbie Hoffman. He ran the Free Store in San Fran at the time all these people were in the Haight, I think. But, I agree with your on this. I don't think Manson liked hippies, though. I don't think he cared that much about politics. He was more interested in getting lots of tail. But I truly believe Blue was parroting Hoffman, but was confused about who the real piggies were. She isn't a stupid woman though. The others (Tex, Sadie, Katie, and Leslie) were as dumb as a box of rocks...Also they were young dropouts, or poor little rich kids, and probably didn't give a rats ass about the real issues back then. ATWA as far as I am concerned is a bunch of shit that was cooked up long after the murders as an excuse for the murders. What puzzles me is that Blue was well educated and yet preached this stupid shit. Killing people is not the solution to cleaning the environment. Especially the people they killed?? You're right--Tex and the others couldn't have given a shit about any of that. They were blood thirsty burnt-out losers.

agnostic monk said...

Bunnies,

I want to kiss you!

:)

Bunnies said...
>>>>She (blue) isn't a stupid woman though.<<<<

No, just a little off her rocker.


>>>>The others (Tex, Sadie, Katie, and Leslie) were as dumb as a box of rocks...<<<<

LOL, Agreed!


>>>>and probably didn't give a rats ass about the real issues back then.<<<<

No doubt.


>>>>>ATWA as far as I am concerned is a bunch of shit that was cooked up long after the murders as an excuse for the murders.<<<<

A-fucking-men, sister. Preachin to the choir here.


>>>>What puzzles me is that Blue was well educated and yet preached this stupid shit. Killing people is not the solution to cleaning the environment.<<<<<

Because as intelligent and educated as she was, Blue was also a little loony. I'm not sure it's any deeper or more complicated than that. Don't underestimate the degree to which mental illness - and/or an abusive, neglectful parental relationship - can offset intelligence.

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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highlandave said...

Beausoleil stated on his website a while back that Brunner took it upon herself to phone the ranch & draw Manson to the Hinman scene.
Re. the merits ,or not, of his musical talents... he was once a bandmate of Arthur Lee, who still speaks positively of him. Not many more significant figures in rock history than Arthur. Forever Changes is timeless. The Lie album doesn't quite have the same fresh, magical genius about it.
As for Susan, Pat & Leslie being "as dumb as a box of rocks", not quite.
Try a 2 year diet of acid, pot, speed etc & see how you fare. Don't underestimate the degree to which amphetamines, cannabis & hallucinegenics can offset intelligence (not to mention sanity). Find yourself at age 18 at the coalface of a cultural revolution then throw a streetsmart little huckster spewing scientology/biblical/Mein Kampf gobledegook into the mix & it's possible (just possible...) that things might run off the rails a little or a lot.
Interesting how Manson & co were allowed to run the girls defense (little messages going back & forth - say this...fire your lawyer...say that). More interesting still is that Watson was tried separately. Someone up the chain was making sure the cheif butcher remained a safe distance away in Texas whilst 3 young women put themselves on death row. Any precedent for that (3 girls basically saying "Yes! Put us in the gas chamber!") anywhere in the annals of history? Not likely.
FYI, Nuel Emmons died in 2002.

Satori said...

catscradle77 wrote: Did he ever go back to "The barking dogs made me do it?" I remember reading that you had spoken with Wheat Carr..my question is-the Terry book is quite the epic..how did they come up with that-I mean Berkie doesn't seem like the sharpest crayon in the book..

No barking dog nonsense, but he did try to keep the “Process Church made me do it” theme alive with me. As for how Berkowitz got that idea in the first place, my personal theory is that Maury Terry is the one who gave Berkowitz that story to run with (a story that Berkowitz doesn’t have fully memorized even today, I can tell you as he cannot keep his story straight to save his own a** and knows absolutely NOTHING about the occult).

I know the Col doesnt like Adam Gorightly-but I like the guy-spent many hours conversing with him on the internet when his board was up and running...do you know Adam?
And what about Mae Brussells? At one point into her research didn't she supposedly get threatened by a member of the Family? (always enjoyed the name Brusell Sprouts-thought that was funny)


I’ve corresponded with Adam Gorightly in the past, during the time that he was still writing his book about Kerry Thornley. I had met Thornley a couple of times at local parties as he lived in my neighborhood when I was a resident of Atlanta, Georgia. Yes, I’m sure Adam is a great guy, but I personally do not care for his work (and have other issues with him that I won’t air in this public forum).

I am also not a huge fan of Mae Brussells as I feel that she takes a sort of "shotgun" approach to conspiracy theory, meaning that if everyone is a part of the conspiracy as she sometimes seems to imply, then you will at least be right part of the time! I'll admit that she does have some interesting ideas, heck, I've even cited her as a source in the past, but I have never really thought that she was someone I would take too seriously. Good entertainment value, though and she will make you think at times!

I prefer Kenn Thomas of Steamshovel Press and Paranoia Magazine for my conspiracy reading.

60skid said...

satori,

I was wondering if you noticed Tex Watson Ezekiel Wheel Poject.

I been told it has simliartities to Charlie's Real Wheel conecept

Jane Doe said...

catscradle77 said...

"Who drew the picture of the Bug during the trial-I remember seeing one..also sorry I didnt make it to the chat the other night..my humblest apologies..."

I believe that according to Helter Skelter, Van Houten and Atkins were responsible for drawing "The Bug" picture.

It's okay about the chat. Hopefully, the lot of us will end up there at the same time one day.

Spahn84 said...

Cat Chick A Roo

I only listen to Pink Floyd.Heaven Loves Pink Floyd

Joe said...

Dorgan a biker? Straight Satan? Where has that ever been documented???

catscradle77 said...
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Joe said...

Both Sanders and Bugliosi never reported that Dorgan was a Straight Satan. The only ones to have said it are Bill Nelson and, if you say, Manson. And neither of them have any credibility. I've spoken to Dorgan. He was never a SS or even in a bike gang.

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Joe said...

Well, between him, Nelson and manson, I think I know who I'd go with.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Joe said;
Joe said...
Well, between him, Nelson and manson, I think I know who I'd go with.

ME TOO-MANSON ALL DA WAY!!!

I agree Manson All Da Way !!!

catscradle77 said...
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chasingbunnies said...

catscradle77 said...
And to all the trolls:
In honor of Kerry :the Turkey Curse, from the holy book, the Principia Discordia: "Face...towards the direction of the negative aneristic vibration that you wish to neutralize. Begin waving your arms in any elaborate manner and make motions with your hands as though you were Mandrake feeling up a sexy giantess. Chant, loudly and clearly: GOBBLE, GOBBLE, GOBBLE, GOBBLE, GOBBLE! The results will be instantly apparent."

11:07 AM

--------
In other words just drop an eight way hit of bad acid, some belladonna, peyote, a couple of 'shrooms, and some meth made from a lab on skid row with rat poison as the main ingredients? That's easy. LOL

catscradle77 said...
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chasingbunnies said...

ARE YOU GUYS HAVING A KILLER TIME?

Spahn84 said...
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Spahn84 said...
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Spahn84 said...

Vinnie Da Bug said...

ARE YOU GUYS HAVING A KILLER TIME?

Now you talking THE BUG me hero

Vinnie I have his picture on me wall .I could make you a copy

chasingbunnies said...

Spahn84 said...
Vinnie Da Bug said...

ARE YOU GUYS HAVING A KILLER TIME?

Now you talking THE BUG me hero

Vinnie I have his picture on me wall .I could make you a copy

1:17 PM

Hey Charlie! Wazzup? When did you get computer privileges? Glad to see you are still fooking crazy! The Real Wheel won't let me in so put in a word for me, ya dig?
ND

Spahn84 said...

Hey Charlie! Wazzup? When did you get computer privileges? Glad to see you are still fooking crazy! The Real Wheel won't let me in so put in a word for me, ya dig?


Me is not Charlie ..Me is a Vinnie Fan .I am bisexuel .he is hot!!!!
I am not crazy or a wheel

chasingbunnies said...

Mr. Bugliosi...You know what you look like to me, with your wide forehead and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, Mr. District Attorney? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed? Pure Hibbing Minnesota-Fargo style. What's your father,Vincent, is he a fuck-up? Is he a drunken slob? Does he stink of Old English? You know how quickly the witnsses found you...Or was it the other way around...whatever... all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars with all those star witnesses...while you could only dream of winning the case...With your Helter Skelter rubbish...and getting rich and famous... getting all the way to the LAPD DA's office....

chasingbunnies said...

Satori said: >>I prefer Kenn Thomas of Steamshovel Press and Paranoia Magazine for my conspiracy reading. <<

Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic.

Tweety said...

Vinny the Bug said what to Satori???

"Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic. "

Watch your language - you illiterate piece of bird dung! Don't you have any manners???

Satori said...

Catscradle77 wrote: . . . let me ask you something-Are you the Zodiac Killer? (sorry I couldnt help myself) What is your take on the Zodiac? (The Sweet-n-Low has taken over my brain and I must gather more aluminium foil)

No, I am not the Zodiac killer, but then again, I probably wouldn’t admit it if I was . . .!

My take on the Zodiac makes up an entire chapter of my book. In a nutshell: I don’t think we are any closer today to knowing who the Zodiac is/was, nor do I believe that we ever will know (unless someone discovers a Zodiac diary or rest of murdered cab driver Paul Stine’s bloody shirt in someone’s attic or basement).

Satori said...

vinnie da bug said: Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic.


Well, since you sort of asked, yes, I am.

catscradle77 said...
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Satori said...

catscradel77 said: Well, I just purchased your book-one I actually paid the true price for...lol..interested in reading the chapter on Kurt Cobain..loved the guy..

Hey, thanks! Hope you like it . . .

Man, bummer, cuz if you came out and said "I am the Zodiac" we could have blown the lid off of it, had a book deal, and the true to life movie, of how years of guilt finally led you to confess on a blog on the internet..we both couldda been contenda's...

LOL, yeah, we could make a bundle together. You might be interested to know that I actually have had one person contact me in the past who claimed to be Zodiac (he/she was so badly misinformed about the basic facts of the case that the claim was beyond laughable) and one person who claimed that his father or uncle or something was Zodiac (I suspected from the contents of the person's rambling email that they were three meds short of a full prescription).

I tried to find the lyrics to the song you requested but I can't as of yet..

Thanks for looking and please let me know if you find anything. I haven't had any luck doing websearches for the lyrics . . .

And nothing but respect for ya, you crunk mofo...ROFLMAO..

;)

Were you out in the Haight in the 60's???

I wish! I was still too young during the heyday, but did make it out there in the mid-70s (and of course, visit San Fran pretty often these days).

catscradle77 said...
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Satori said...

catscradle77: Wasnt that Kenny Kildare or something...a few years ago, he had a website running and I emailed him. I would bet he was about four plus meds short of his meds at least from what I got from him..then that author Gareth Penn and I exchanged some emails, ummm yeah..do I need to say more..and he sent me this paper he wrote on the cipher or something..all I know is I turned it upside down and the shiat still didnt make sense...so I gave it to my kids hampster..

I'm not familiar with Kenny Kildare, but the guy who emailed me was Jack or George something or other. If I can remember correctly, he claimed that he found a bunch of letters or photos or something in either his father or uncle's attic that proved he was the Zodiac. I learnd later that he had been booted off dang near every message board in cyber space . . .

Gareth Penn is a total trip. Outside of one or two very basic ideas of his that I find interesting, you can take the rest of his spiel and use it to fall asleep at night after too much coffee.

Was there any truth to any of the Satanic panic that was going around-or was it just hype?

It is all 99.9% complete BS, in my humble opinion.

catscradle77 said...
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Satori said...

catscradle77 wrote: He wanted me to donate money to the bird sanctuary where he worked..all I thought was save the tress and stop printing off your crappy articles..but that damn Times 17 goes for like 350 on Amazon..

LOL, save the trees! Since you bought my book, I don't want to spoil anything for you, but I kinda, sorta give Penn a bit of slack regarding a couple of small areas in his theories in my Zodiac chapter, but not much . . . There is also a follow-up there to the Penn "radian theory" by a guy named Mike Cole that I think is just fascinating. Let me know what you think (and if you think the book sucks, please be sure to recycle properly, LOL!)

Wow, that much for a copy of Times 17? I've got a chunk of gold sitting on my shelf . . . and its even signed by the author and has the companion book with it, too!

Another goofbag to stay away from is the WhiteRabbitt aka Larry Melton..he will feed the crowd what they wanna hear, then deny he said it...he claims Bruce Davis is the Zodiac..Howard Davis claims that too, but at least Howard does research and doesnt deny what he says...

I have learned more about White Rabbitt here on this board than I ever, ever wanted to know.

I have corresponded in the past with Howard Davis and used to debate with him a bit over on the Zodiac Killer message board. You are right about Howard, at least he does his research.

I thought so, but I do not want any of what Terry was smoking to come up with what he did..

Terry got conned by serial killer, plain and simple and then refused to hear anything but what he wanted to hear while writing The Ultimate Evil. About the best I can say for Terry is that he actually does offer up a pretty interesting theory that Berkowitz may have had accomplices – a possibility, but in my opinion, this would have been on a very limited scale, and possibly involving the Carr brothers, but he falls far short of proving that his "global satanic conspiracy."

Jane Doe said...

Here is a brief bio of Gary Hinman along with a picture of his grave:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6639834

If you search the findagrave.com site, you'll find similar information about the victims of the Tate-LaBianca slayings, George Spahn, and Leslie Van Houten's former attorney, Ronald Hughes.

catscradle77 said...
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Satori said...

catscradle77 wrote: I always thought the one police sketch looked like Wheat myself..dont ruin the book for me and tell me though...lol..I admit, the whole Arlis Perry thing kind of freaked me out..did you ever try to discuss that with him (Berkie)? And then poof went John Carr and then Michael in the car crash...

Well, I can’t ruin anything for you there as I really only touch briefly on the “Maury Terry/Son of Sam multiple shooters” theory.

I only learned a few interesting things from Wheat Carr and our correspondence was very brief. She raked me over the coals for even asking her about her brothers’ possible involvement in the Son of Sam murders and ultimately ended our communication because I dared to ask the question . . .

I never got a chance to discuss Arlis Perry with Berkowitz. I won’t ruin it for you, but the reason why I didn’t get around to it was mostly due to the fact that I am not convinced that her murder had any connection to Berkowitz at all.

chasingbunnies said...

Tweety said...
Vinny the Bug said what to Satori???

"Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic. "

Watch your language - you illiterate piece of bird dung! Don't you have any manners???

4:15 PM

C'mon down to the hood and make me.
I'll turn yo fruity ass into a cat turd.

Tweety said...

Vinnie Da Bug said...
Satori said...
vinnie da bug said: Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic.

Well, since you sort of asked, yes, I am.

4:22 PM

Trust us, if you weren't there then we don't care...There's an old saying that goes like this "If you remember the sixties then you weren't really there..." and you never will be...

5:11 PM


That Vinny da Bug sure is a simplified version of a microorganism designed for small applications.... Sylvester... I got something really slithery for your dinner... Vinny da Bug..... come get it!!!

chasingbunnies said...

Tweety said...
Vinnie Da Bug said...
Satori said...
vinnie da bug said: Well aren't you just the hippest and crunk muth-phucka on the planet
@@ <=eyeroll
Go read a classic.

Well, since you sort of asked, yes, I am.

4:22 PM

Trust us, if you weren't there then we don't care...There's an old saying that goes like this "If you remember the sixties then you weren't really there..." and you never will be...

5:11 PM


That Vinny da Bug sure is a simplified version of a microorganism designed for small applications.... Sylvester... I got something really slithery for your dinner... Vinny da Bug..... come get it!!!

8:04 PM

Tweety is so computer ignorant that she can't even keep her stupid little Tweety bird photo up. But, that's forgivable. What isn't is that she calls Vinnie Da Bug an ignorant piece of bird dung...Lady...Is Tweety your State Bird? Be careful of this little worm eating pissant, or you might catch the Avian Flu Virus if she shits on your head
VDB

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Cat ,

How active was the Process Church in the sixties? And I know LaVey was probably more a showman than anything else, but how many people actually truly bought into is "teachings"

Interesting question ..how many did buy into the teachings

60skid said...

I see Mr Turner is at it again.

Mr. I Walk On Water .. that pushes Dennis Rice the pervert.. or did I mean selling .

No Thanks I will keep the rope !!!!

Satori said...

catscradle77: How active was the Process Church in the sixties? And I know LaVey was probably more a showman than anything else, but how many people actually truly bought into is "teachings"?

I researched the Process for almost a year and a half and can probably answer that question to some degree. If you consider mobility and number of churches as deciding factors, then the Process Church was much more active than the Church of Satan, in that the Process moved from city to city and had churches set up in several cities. LaVeys COS was largely confined to San Francisco and existed primarily as a mail correspondence group.

However, the Process Church was much more short lived, fading out of existence in the late 70s. The Church of Satan is still in existence today (only minus LaVey at the helm since he passed away in 1997). LaVey continues to influence many occultists, while the Process Church really only exists as nostalgic memories (although I have interviewed a group that is trying to revive the original church – with original members – in Canada; nice group of people, too).

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...
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chasingbunnies said...

>>Also some of Manson's movements remind me of the passage from kerry I posted earlier..did they ever cross paths that you know? It is also said that the Manson "signals" are more of a cult signal..have you heard this?

7:30 AM <<

Uh, yes. I have heard this. Manson speaks to me through his body language just as he speaks to Blue, Red, and the others. It's code. Same as gangbangers speak using hand signals. I'm no Helen Keller but I can speak Manson without saying a word for hours on end just using hand signals. It takes practice and you need a mirror because most people don't understand what you are doiing and they call the police on you if you appraoch them with this method of communicating.
VDB

chasingbunnies said...

EF you CB ya poser piece-a-sh!t!
Signed
The real VDB

chasingbunnies said...

WTF? Kiss my butt Vinnie you schizophrenic disabled SSI collecting POS! Get a JOB! You crazy Effer

Dok said...

Salem, Do let what other people say upset you. We have no control over what people will say and do. As long as you know the truth, the shit being spilled means nothing. Stop going over there, it's not good for you : )

chasingbunnies said...

Salem said...
>>The CULT IS AT MARK TURNERS.
HE MAKES CLAIMS THINGS HE CANT PROVE!!!!
HE CALLS PEOPLE A WHACKO BECAUSE THEY WONT GIVE OUT NAMES AND NUMBERS. HE THREATENS PEOPLE, AND TRUST ME, HE WILL TRACK U DOWN! HES GOT FREINDS TO DO ILLEGAL THINGS!
HE IS SOOOOOOO FISHING TO FIND OUT ABOUT SANDY AND GEORGE.
WOW FIRST POST ON HIM .COM FOURM WAS THAT SANDY HAS LEFT GEORGE AND HANFORD, THEN SANDY AND GEORGE DENOUNCED CM AND THE LEFT CA...
OMG WHAT IS NEXT!!
HE IS FISHING!!!!!!!!
WATCH OUT!!!

9:47 AM <<

Mark Turner is a smelly bed sore...a decubitis ulcer on the buttocks of society!
VDB (the real one)

Salem said...
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Dok said...

We do Salem.

Dok said...

I don't know enough about Mark Turner. Why is he so dispised? I understand the Dennis Rice thing, but what does everyone else know that I don't? Just wondering, I don't want to stir up any bad emotions.

catscradle77 said...
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chasingbunnies said...

Dr.Dodopariti said...
Salem, Do let what other people say upset you. We have no control over what people will say and do. As long as you know the truth, the shit being spilled means nothing. Stop going over there, it's not good for you : )
----
That's great advice Doc, but Mark Turner exposes people's true identiities and their drivers licenses on his board for all to see. How does he do it? He has friends in the police department who have access to this stuff. It's now against the law and Salem should file charges. Imagine the creeps from that board who have Salem's personal info, address, etc, and her DL photo. That's reason enough to start sleeping with one eye open, and collecting guns.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...
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Dok said...

Kitty, I'm praying with ya my sista!

60skid said...

Salem ,

Pay no attentiom To Turner he is just jealous of you

Dok said...

CB said:
"That's great advice Doc, but Mark Turner exposes people's true identiities and their drivers licenses on his board for all to see. How does he do it? He has friends in the police department who have access to this stuff. It's now against the law and Salem should file charges. Imagine the creeps from that board who have Salem's personal info, address, etc, and her DL photo. That's reason enough to start sleeping with one eye open, and collecting guns."

Are you serious? That's bad. Hey Salem, does he know who you are? And has he harrassed you?

Did ya miss me Kitty?

Dok said...

I just briefly scanned that site, and did not see that Salem personally was mentioned. I think that you are ok Salem.

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...
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60skid said...

Salem,

I guess he needs donations for lots of things He sure has a lot of links to sell stuff on his site..
He has to get a cut

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Cat,

Salem-hang in dere-da Cat is working on sumthing..


You go Kitty

chasingbunnies said...

Salm said...
he has posted LIES about my marriage, wriiten how i should drive my wheel chair down the interstate. on his OLD messagge board.
He is has serious issues, He needs help.
I HEARD he was sued for taking and posting pic*s of the Willet house with out persmisson, and thats why he needs donations.
bad news.he's nuts!

12:14 PM
--------
Does this guy have a life beyond that stupid board? How does he manage that board and run around taking photos of ex family memnbers' homes, and work a regular job at the same time? How does he finance his little ventures?? Donations maybe?

catscradle77 said...
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Dok said...

Kitty, I hit ya later when I get home. I was on-call all weekend, so I really couldn't play with ya.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Cat,

All together now "WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM MA FRIENDS"

Come Together Right Now

Salem said...
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Salem said...
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60skid said...

Salem,

and I wont rat on my freinds, He wants to know WHO and where and how.somethings CANNOT BE SAID OR POSTED. you promise someone something, I keep my word. I am not a SNITCH like him*

You did the right thing . He sure will not name his sources..will he

chasingbunnies said...

60skid said...
Salem,

and I wont rat on my freinds, He wants to know WHO and where and how.somethings CANNOT BE SAID OR POSTED. you promise someone something, I keep my word. I am not a SNITCH like him*

You did the right thing . He sure will not name his sources..will he

1:17 PM

That's cause his sources are a bunch a-holes and perverts.

Salem said...
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60skid said...

Salem,

That's cause his sources are a bunch a-holes and perverts.

yes !!!!!!!!!!!


All these sources oh boy

60skid said...

Salem,

Let him come over and show us these sources

But we all know there is not any

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...
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