Tuesday, April 25, 2006

Nam Ryenge Ho Part FOUR


So where were we before the fools from Turner's board wasted everyone's time.... oh yes...

6- Bobby tells Charlie because the Bikers threaten the ranch. Charlie sends Bobby, Sadie and Mary to get the money. 6b- alt version which I doubt- Gary owes Ranch money, has inherited some, Charlie sends kids to get the money by theft.

The 6b version is out there in some of the literature. Bobby himself denies it. It doesn't make sense that they were sent to STEAL money- the group was not about theft it was about perceived power. Let's dismiss this now.

6a has some problems.

1- WHY tell Charlie when all he is gonna do is kick your ass?
2- Did the Bikers threaten the Ranch? And with what, a whupping? I mean the bikers were screwing the girls. Why threaten? Did Bobby really think they were going to kill him?
3- Repeating from before- Mary lived there and Gary knows her- fine, send her. Bobby sold the bad drugs, send him. But WHY Sadie and not Bruce or Little Paul?
4- For that matter, why didn't Charlie and Bobby just go themselves? Charlie ends up there anyway.

The further we poke, the more questions we have.

135 comments:

uncle ace said...
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Dok said...

Sadie was called "Sexy Sadie", maybe she was sent to use that as a tool. I know it is believed that Gary was Bisexual, so this may be a reach. Sadoe was never stable, so her communication skills were not an asset. Could it be that she just happened to be around when Bobbie was leaving and just joined in?

I agree with you Col, why would Bobbie go to Charlie with this problem. That put him at risk for two + ass beatings.

Pristash said...

Can't Bobby clear up any of these questions? Or will doing so jeopardize his parole chances? Perhaps coming clean about everything would increase his parole chances?

Dok said...

Does anyone know where cat went?

catscradle77 said...
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deadwoodhbo said...

what happened theres a post missing

Minion of .Net said...

i already got out of ohio
i ran off from west virginia
i got out of all that
nobody liked me
nobody wanted me
which was okay with me
i reflect that
my mother is the planet earth
ohio is a japanese word

and i got a mickey mouse watch from the emperor of japan on that one

and a samurai brotherhood and the brotherhood of all brotherhoods that ever was a brotherhood in the real deal of the one that is god

and not in those silly little churches that you people play that 10 percent beat somebody out of their tax dollars the 700 club where the witch paints her face gives her daughters ass to the garbage can out the back door and then talks about how much she loves jesus out the front door for another dollar and a quarter.

deadwoodhbo said...

charlie get rid of lake and come ride the sea.

Salem said...

They( the Bikers) represented to me an element of freedom in America. On the road, and in their lifestyle, the freedom that they express with each other. I felt so desperate in this situation, being put in a cross with the motorcycle club. Naturally, they are going to be mad at me—not at him. They didn*t even know him. I*m the one who took their money and brought back this mescaline, supposed mescaline. I*m in a helluva bind. If I don*t give them something, who knows about their plans.

Why did you bring susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to the Hinman house?

BB: Because they were friends of Gary Hinman. Mary Brunner was close to him because she stayed with him for a while. She was as close as anybody could be with him. The girls didn*t even know what was going on. They just wanted to go party and see him. No one was going there with any intention of killing Gary Hinman.

Magick_Films said...

Thank you, Master

Joe said...

Wow. Things disappear fast around here.

cortex_jnr said...
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catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

hey cats I hear you my bizzle

I believe Bobby. He's speaking truth. Sadie just wanted to come along and hang out.

If that's what Bobby said then I believe him.

Bobby and the truth are companions I would trust his word over many others involved in the case.

catscradle77 said...
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deadwoodhbo said...

and im still waiting for charlie to dump the lake and ride the sea lol

Satori said...

I'm still here, just waiting to see if the dust has really settled yet.

It certainly *smells better here already!

(* troll stink)

I will try to post later this afternoon, if I can muster up a few minutes. In the mean time, good to see you all back.

catscradle77 said...
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Dok said...

Cat is the glue that binds. I thought I too was your crunk buddy. I would hang and get crunk with Satori and Monk anytime.

Dok said...

I like your post Salem. I think that is the answer and it was that simple.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

I am here ..waiting for the troll stink to leave.

catscradle77 said...
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Joe said...

catscradle77 said...
"Now, seeing if Joe has anymore food for thought??? Anything Joe?"

Since you asked...After the LASO Homicide investigators went to the Tate autopsy to tell them about their nearly identical crime scene in Topanga and that their main suspect was currently in the slammer, but lived with a bunch of hippies at the Spahn Ranch, led by a guy who thought he was Jesus, why the hell didn't they go directly to the ranch to question said hippies about the Hinman murder? Particularly if they personally believed, despite what Nuckles had told them, that the gang was responsible for the Tate and LaBianca slaughters. Also, remember, they knew Bobby had two female accomplices and a preggers girlfriend who he left at the ranch. Yet they stayed away from it like it was a quarantined government facility.

And the raid of the 16th, if we're to believe the "official story" was carried out by LASO cops who weren't even aware of the Hinman death or the suspicions held by their colleagues at homicide about Manson.

Something's missing here. Anyone got an idea what?

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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>(he was living supposedly in the sewers with Nancy Pitman)<<<

I'll just never forget that old tv news footage of Bruce and Nancy surfacing at Temple and Broadway, all the girls go wild, Bruce looks too stoned to even formulate an answer to the reporters many questions, he just keeps looking at Cathy Gillies and giggling.

And when asked where she's been all this time, Nancy has a lot of fun telling the reporters "IN YOUR HOUSE!" while making faces at them. And then my favorite: "Brenda how have you been living all this time?"

Brenda (complete with fresh red X): "My father takes good care of me."

Those crazy kids and their hilarious youthful hijinks! :)

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

Catscradle said,

"Still looking for Meatwad..miss the picture..I think Jimmy Hoffa is up in dat belly button.. "

Not really, just some smelly lint.

You are right, Hoffa's body hasn't been found but the mystery about how he died was resolved.

Wasn't much of a mystery. A mob hit to keep him out of the UAW.

He was lured to the hit by his buddy, Frank Sheeren. Chuckie O'brien drove him to the hit, I think he was a nephew or something.

Sheeren made a death bed confession and gave Detroit cops an address.

Last I heard floorboards with suspected blood stains were pulled up there and were being tested for DNA, but I don't really know any results one way or another.

It was a mob hit but heh, would that surprise anyone?

meatwad said...

I said,

"Not really, just some smelly lint."

That is not really true. If you look closely at my belly button it could be the figure of the Madonna.

People are beginning pilgrimages and are lining up outside my door to view it, in fact.

Some say it looks like Jesus.

Next, someone will say it looks like Charlie.

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

Catscradle said,

"Any more thoughts on Hinman, meatwad?"

I can't get over looking at Hinman's photo.

Could he ever be a hard ass over a dope deal? At worst he might be a little cranky but so what.

He got the shiv to protect the story.

Hinman wasnt making drugs in a stupid tub. Please.

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60skid said...

Mr.Meat Wad,

Could the tube been mailed from San Francisco to 2774 Woodstock Rd.

Frykowski real address

meatwad said...

60's kid said,

"Mr.Meat Wad,"

I do like the Mr, lol.

Lost dope...not on time dope.

Not fun in a drug world where you have MONEY invested.

Ever notice that when money is involved people freak if something goes awry?

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Mr Meat Wad,

Lost dope...not on time dope.

Not fun in a drug world where you have MONEY invested.

Ever notice that when money is involved people freak if something goes awry?



Ok Bobby's package is missing.

Some big player ..with big bucks ..is ticked off.

Big Player thinks Fwykoski has his package .

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Pristash said...

See what Joe said...above...

Any of these LASO types still around for the Col or others of our ilk to track down and interview? Perhaps some of these guys may have a thing or two to say about their big bad brethren homocide dicks from the big city...

Others who should be tracked down and forced to recount their stories in the light of day besides Garretson are Joe Dorgan and Rudy Weber. For my money too some of these other guys who heard sounds the night of Tate should too...Tim Ireland, the dude with the hunting dogs, and the kid who heard the arguing from across the canyon...

And besides the white van seen parked outside the house...what about the nighttime dunebuggy rides in the canyons? Did they continue after Tate, or all of a sudden stop? And is it realistic that Charlie's Family would have dune buggied all the way from Spahn Ranch to the area around Cielo Drive? What's the word here, people?

Salem said...

THANK GOD IT IS FRIDAY!!!
:)

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Cats,

I don't have any info here with me, but is that the one Garretson saw? And-didn't he say that the people in the van gave him a ride or something? (please correct me if I am wrong-having a fuzzy badly stressed out-don't make me go all out-kinda day)


I believe the neighbors saw the white van parked on Cielo Dr. before the murders.

I know the neighbors complained about the dunebuggy rides ..going up and down the canyon.

meatwad said...

60's Kid said,

"Some big player ..with big bucks ..is ticked off.

Big Player thinks Fwykoski has his package ."

Big Player could have been Charlie.

Could have been Tex....

Either one could have wanted the hit on Cielo.

"Let's get that dope from Frykowski and do something witchy."

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

catscradle said,

"Okay, is that the reason Charlie went back"

If Charlie went to the crime scene anything is possible:

He went to plant misleading clues.

He went there to search for the dope that Dope Tex forgot to get.

He went to clean up/slice Garretson because Tex forgot.

He didnt trust Tex and wanted to make sure nothing was left to incriminate them.

He thought there was money there and went for it.

He wanted to make sure that everyone was dead.

Anything else?

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Salem said...

I guess when Susan blabbed about what THEY did, CM and a few others went to clean up and wipe down the house and plant the glasses there to throw the cops off.
jmho

Salem said...

after all there was a bloody footprint that did NOT match susan nor Pat's ...nor Sharon's or abby's. Was a small female footprint . Tex had BIG feet .
I recall the cops said it was a female print.
?????

catscradle77 said...
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meatwad said...

M. Cats said,

"Cuz why stop after two nights if they wanted to start a race war as Buggy said? "

The race war thing was only a trippy fairy tale to groove on whilst they played with dune buggies and did drugs and sang songs. Substance? The substance was drugs. From hand to mouth in one second.

Everything about this case is about drugs. That was the currency and focus of that generation.

Otherwise the music sounded shitty.

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meatwad said...

M. Cats said,

"but what would be the drug of "choice"

"what would have been considered an operation of size"

Drug of the time of TLB on the streets was pot. Drug of the elite?

Anything. LSD wasn't something you could fit into a schedule easily unless you didnt work.

Downers most notably Qualludes and MDA fit in real well.

There was even fake tablet heroin sold. Methadon. Used by recovering heroin addicts.

A friend dealer would have 50 hits of MDA at about two bucks each.

Two bucks a hit.

Gram of hash, fifteen bucks.

Hit of acid three bucks.

Hinman level? Probably 1000 to 2000 hits of MDA, guessing.

Interesting tidbit, MDA didnt reach a mass audience until the seventies.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Mr Meat Wad,

friend dealer would have 50 hits of MDA at about two bucks each.

Two bucks a hit.

Gram of hash, fifteen bucks.

Hit of acid three bucks.

Hinman level? Probably 1000 to 2000 hits of MDA, guessing.

Interesting tidbit, MDA didnt reach a mass audience until the seventies.


Ok Hinman level ..pretty big level there..big bucks in 1969.

Was Bikers plans to take over drug trade..

Charlie wanted a piece of the action too

meatwad said...

M. 60's Kid said,

"Was Bikers plans to take over drug trade"

Bikers have always had a comraderie with hippies.
Didnt go on runs together or anything but again, dope.

But the dope became different later, more crank.

In the beginning bikers were tripping, too. Hash, a little speed (black beauties).

60skid said...

Mr. Meat Wad,


I understand this case is about drugs.

But what is your thoughts on why send Sadie to Gary's ?

There had to be a reason to send Sadie and not Bruce or Paul.

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...

Drug of the time of TLB on the streets was pot. Drug of the elite?

cocaine

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>Yo Monk-I'm shaking it like a salt shaker looking for you<<<

cats my bizzle you dont have to look too far tomorrow tomorrow I love ya tomorrow I'm always a day away. :)

agnostic monk said...

Pristash said...
>>>>what about the nighttime dunebuggy rides in the canyons? Did they continue after Tate, or all of a sudden stop?<<<

THAT is a very GOOD question!

>>>And is it realistic that Charlie's Family would have dune buggied all the way from Spahn Ranch to the area around Cielo Drive?<<

Speaking as a former resident of the City of Angels, I would have to say that it is completely and utterly unrealistic. And if it turns out that it IS realistic, I will become very bitter about all that time I spent on Laurel Canyon traveling between my home and work!

Joe said...

Manson sent Sadie to Hinman's because Vance wouldn't let Ella Jo Baily Go.

catscradle77 said...
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60skid said...

Mr.Joe,

Manson sent Sadie to Hinman's because Vance wouldn't let Ella Jo Baily Go.

Ok lucky for Ella Jo Baily..Vance saved her from doing life in prison..

Why did Charlie send any of the women ? ..I understand Mary..she had a history with Gary.

Why not send Little Paul or Bruce?

Pristash said...

Hello Cats!

Your friend with the unfortunate painkiller addiction doesn't happen to be Rush Limbaugh does it?

catscradle77 said...
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Pristash said...

Ok, Cats,

Hope your friend can get through it all without too much trouble.

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uncle ace said...
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Salem said...

BB had lived with Hinman for awhle and ( had bought drugs from Hinman before) he BB drifted in and out at Spahns. I doubt CM had anything to do with the deal at Hinmans til BB called him for back up.
CM was already freaking out from Crowe being shot. He sure didnt want more trouble. He was ready to split anyways.And he didnt want any trouble from some angry Bikers*
Is that why BB left the Panther paws print at Hinmans? It would seem the Panthers did it? which would be odd as the Panthers werent messing with people like Hinman.
jmho

Salem said...

Manson sent Sadie to Hinman's because Vance wouldn't let Ella Jo Baily Go. *

Manson sent them?
I thought they went with BB to hang out and party?
plus to pick up the *stuff*

Joe said...

Hardley. Manson sent them for the twenty grand, no matter what anyone else here says.

agnostic monk said...

Joe said...
>>>Manson sent them for the twenty grand, no matter what anyone else here says.<<<

Hi Joe, isn't that what Bobby says now? if that's what he says now I'm inclined to believe him. he does also say that the girls were only along for the ride and had no idea what was going on. I know his story has not always been consistent but at this point in his life he seems pretty much on the up and up.

Where's that book, Bobby???!!!!!! That is one read I am anxiously awaiting.

uncle ace said...
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Joe said...

For what it's worth, Dorgan said he wasn't a Straight Satan and he never met anyone in the Family. You can believe him or not.

According to Ella Jo Bailey, everyone at the ranch knew they were after Gary's $ when Manson selected the group to go, and that they would get rough if necessary (and that they were bringing a gun). That's why Vance got her out of going, she told him she was scared. One instance where CM was ordered around, he told Charlie "she's not going."

Of course, she testified in exchange for immunity (she admitted wiping down Hinman's bus when it was brought back to the ranch). Which makes me wonder how Vance managed to wiggle free of any charges. He ordered the car cleaned and told Sadie to burn the bloody clothes.

Pristash said...

ok, Joe, time to pony up...how do you know all this stuff?

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WackoJacko said...

Anyone seen Savage? I kinda miss his beauty tips - he is so RIGHT ON!!!! Move over Anthony Robbins ..... Here comes Savage ... our next Oprah....simply advice as easy as 1-2-3.......

Cuse me - think I'm gonna start moondancing again....!
yoaw....

Salem said...

ya Cat
I was wondering where Savage went also.

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Motif said...

Encore.....

And Savage-thanks for coming back-nothing but kudos for you.

Thanks both Savage and Cats - because I enjoy reading your insightful posts.

60skid said...

Savage,

The Blog not the same with out you.

Welcome back ..I am glad to see you.

Put me down for a set of cards also.

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Pristash said...

I'm in for a deck of cards too...Sartori's book also, however I may try the interlibrary loan for that one....

Back to the cards: will Zero be the 'Suicide King'?

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