So we got the next section to deal with and an evil message board adminisrator mustn't put us off our work.
4- Bobby bought some mescaline for the Straight Satans off Gary in order to raise some money for the group's band, The Family Jam.
5- The Satans claim it is bad drugs. They do not return it but demand their money back.
First, the books call the burn MDA and other books call it MDMA. One of these is the formula for ecstasy but it doesn't seem to have been that. Bobby claims it was mescaline. That makes sense since you can synthesize it in your bathtub. Not that I ever have mind you. Ahem. So Bobby is trying to impress the bikers, maybe for status maybe for reasons we will never know. Fine. The bikers give him $2,000, significant money in 1969. He goes to Gary and buys the pills. Bobby gives to Bikers. Bikers say it is shit and want their money back But do not return the drugs. This seems to be the story. But now the questions....
1- Were the bikers serious or just messing with Bummer Bob?
2- What ELSE did they say to Bobby that would make him so desperate that he ends up killing Gary?
3- Charlie okays Mary because she lived with Gary for a while. But why Sadie? Especially when she seems so unreliable.
4- What would have happened if Bobby told the bikers to get bent?
5- Did Charlie really think Gary would refund drugs that no longer existed?
The whole thing sounds dumb, no?
111 comments:
Colonel,
I realize this is probably a lame question but has Bobby ever discussed the Hinman murder and motive with you?
Also, I wonder if Charlie thought that by sending Sadie to Gary's house that if something occurred (maybe Charlie had the idea to kill Gary already) that he would have something on Sadie to control her? Just a thought.
Proud to be an onion
You know Cat, that's a very good point. The original plan for Helter Skelter was to give everyone the clap. Plan B, was to murder.
First of all there had to be a very solid relationship for a moto gang to give 2G's and for BB to give that amount of drugs.
And for sure BB tried a hit or had someone try a hit. Thats how we used to do business in the day. Unless it was your first deal and that is doubtful.
Somebody burned somebody, and it probably was not bad drugs.
So......my guess is BB pocketed the money from the sale and went back to get the rest saying the drugs were bad.
The bikers had what they wanted...outa the picture.
Hinman had stuff BB wanted. He copped his vehicle too. Unfortunetly, he got popped on the way to SF when he fell asleep in it.
BB was gonna split the shit with CM probably to pay back a favor or something.
Hinman wouldn't cough up enough shit so after a few days of drugs and no sleep BB struck after more pressure from CM.
BB split with what he could find and fell asleep on the roadside. He did not intend to do this but was tired from the ordeal.
CM got jackshit. BB didnt want to deal with CM rath so he headed north with Gary's stolen car. He probably was gonna trade plates with some other vehicle just like it but didn't have time before getting busted.
In the meantime TLB went down. BB smelled the wind and to this day is trying to just distance himself. But he can't because...well he was connected.
You miss the major point, Salem.
There was a solid relationship between said bikers and BB.
2G's worth of relationship. No way I woulda sold 2G's worth of worthless dope.
Unless I was an idiot and BB aint.
Drugs were a big part of our lifestyle back then. We knew how to deal em.
The small dealers were obviously dime bags up to ounces. High school.
2G's? Big time. Moto gang? Multiply by ten.
Nobody threw around 2G's back then. You could buy a new car for that.
jrcd4 said,
"OK-so Bobby gives Gary all of this money for drugs which supposedly turned out to be bunk."
Hinman probably fronted the drugs to BB.
catscradle77 said...
>>>Hey Monk, you still with us?<<<
yup still here off and on, but been laying low the last couple days. sure has been helter skelter in here.
Oh well, at least we still have Linda's pigtails to cheer us up.
:)
Regarding Raven Moon
This is probably white rarebit posing.
The white rarebit has nothing to offer. Been to the ranch for an hour probably. Has no clue.
The cat is sleeping.
please, mirror ouishe
ok, more Hinman stuff.
If Hinman had enough mescaline or whatever you wish to call the drug used in the sell to equal 2G's then he had more.
Oh yeah, he gave BB the last of it...uhhuh.
BB knew this. He persuaded Charlie that he could pay back by getting the rest and Charlie awaited his cut.
Hinman was smart enough to hide or bury the rest of the stuff. Or so he thought. In walks BB high on Mescaline with also high on Mescaline kill girls.
Where are the drugs, Gary?
Gary knows he can't give up the drugs. He has promised them to someone else.
Where are the drugs, Gary?
This went on for several days.
Manson shows up, slashes Garys face, still no dice.
Who was Gary holding the drugs for that caused him to defy BB, SA and CM?
The rest of the mescaline ended up with BB. He wasnt just sittin' around with Gary all that time. He saw where Gary kept the stash when he got the first "buy".
Yeah Gary had big time pressure to hold the remaining mesc and He didnt know BB found it.
BB wanted back to SanFran. That was the ticket (drugs equal money). He played the game for awhile and finally got rid of the only one that could talk....Gary.
The loose end.
BB didnt want to travel up to SanFran with a lot of dope in a stolen vehicle.
He sent it via USPS in a care package. Someone got a nice care package. We used to use cardboard tubes. Like you send maps in.
UPS?
No, UPS did not exist then.
I said USPS.
United States Postal Service.
Not to change the subject (and maybe I should ask this under a different subject) but speaking of Kitty, what was that chick's damage anyway?
She runs away from the Family, tells the police who picked her up that she's afraid of them, snitches to the cops about the murders, then winds up BACK with the Family protesting on the corner with shaved head and swastika, then winds up distancing herself again and giving interviews a few years later confirming how "awful" it was living with those people, and about how obsessed with death and destruction Charlie was.
Was this all about Bobby for her? And why was she all over the place with her loyalties? Maybe she was just a clueless moron who wanted to fit in?
Loose end #2
BB had some friends in SanFran. I say some because it was a fast changing place in hippie world at the time.
The movers and shakers were moving in to organize (Bill Graham et al) and that was part of the end to the real 60's experience.
But anyway BB was tied to the music world that was tied to the drug world that at that time was still somewhat cottage on the verge of becoming the exploitive 70's that became the rapist 80's.
At that time there was still a small community. They knew BB. And they had the separation from the pigs and "your generation".
So, take your pick BB. Who can you trust the most to send to?
Burns were not that common really.
But if you were gonna burn, SanFran was a world away. We didnt have cell phones. Or Fax. Or the best automated USPS. Or voicemail....communication was slower.
catscradle77 said...
Ma Monkalicious:
>>So, for once, dis Cat cut a chik some slack...<<
cats I was joking about calling her a moron. Well, maybe. I'm not sure really. I'm not trying to bash her I'm just really interested in what was going on in her head. She was all over the place, back and forth, back and forth. And not only that but they ACCEPTED her back.
That's always something that has intrigued me. You could betray the Family and then change your tune and they would forgive you and then accept you back into the fold (see: Sadie, Kitty, Mary B).
catscradle77 said...
>>>Cuz the only Bill Graham da pops into ma head is Billy Graham dat preaching dude<<<
LOL, no he's referring to the concert promoter. He was very active in the music scene that gave us acts like Jefferson Airplane, Joplin, etc. he also managed some groups himself.
I for some reason do not feel the need to google Bill Graham for you.
Concert promoter for the Grandy Ballroom at the time.
catscradle77 said...
>>>Love is funny thing..didnt ya ever have that one relationship that truly sucked shiat, but ya took that person back forever...didnt ya ever have that friend that really pissed ya off continually, but ya kept being friend with them cuz ya thought they would change...travel back in time to your younger days and mine, where ya had a lot of hope and love, and where the world wasnt seen through expereinced eyes..<<<
That makes sense, but I guess what I dont understand is why Kitty was so all over the place. With the Family, back to her mom, back with the family, back with her mom, out on the corner, back with her mom. And who was caring for Baby Beausolieu at the time?
Meanwhile we are talking about a group of people who would sit in the courthouse with signs that read "Judas Day" (when Kasabian, Watkins, Hoyt testified) and threatening that "snitches will be taken care of". But they accepted Kitty, Mary, even Sadie back into their "love".
Wow, i'm just fascinated by what the interpersonal dynamics must have been like.
Salem said...
>>>please dont use Sandy's dead sister in the same sentence you try to post.<<<
Salem, does Sandy have any fond memories of her sister?
I realize that you probably won't answer that question but I thought I'd ask anyway.
I just saw some video where she got very emotional about her DAD.
dead ginny said...
>>>clem balled sandy when i was at spahn<<<
ewwwww.
catscradle77 said...
How many days after Hinman did BB get popped?
Don't recall...think I remember two days.
Regardless, BB left the scene reeling with trauma combined with lack of sleep and drug useage.
That led to his pulling over on the side of the road unable to make it to SanFran.
He had a really bad week.
LA to SanFran back then was on a two lane highway. The main route. Took six hours.
Or the coast route...still takes twelve hours.
catscradle77 said...
agnostic monk said...
dead ginny said...
>>>clem balled sandy when i was at spahn<<<
ewwwww.
>>>LOL Monk...here we are again..LOL
Ok, maybe "ewwww" wasn't the right word. Maybe I've just watched too much footage of Sandy's shrill, abrasive shrieking and severe glares on the corner of Broadway and Temple. I just have a hard time picturing her being able to loosen up enough to enjoy a good lay.
And Clem well, he sorta cleaned up ok for court but even then those god-awful teeth.
Did they have dental floss at Spahn? I don't even want to think about the halitosis factor.
Posted by the "dick" detective,
"That prick Satori actually has a website too. Maybe we should go there and crack his balls."
Watch your step....Satori is a friend of ColScott and a substantial writer of the case.
Satori said...
>>>Otherwise, please leave me out of all of this as I have absolutely no desire to get involved in personal disputes on this or any other blog.
Thanks,
Curt Rowlett/Satori<<<<
Very well put. Amen, Curt, Amen. The disputes are really harshing my mellow.
But the important question is, Satori do you like Linda's pigtails?
Sorry, it's Friday. :p
catscradle77 said...
>>>Hey Monk what time?<<<
cats, I'm still fielding phone calls from my loving employer. not sure when this madness will stop, this whole business of them expecting me to work for my paycheck.
are you around tonight? if not i got some time over the weekend.
Satori never answered about Linda's pigtails.
:(
shoresendz said...
>>>it must be big, big enough to loose his life over, something that, as Manson has said, would blow the whole lid off Hollywood.<<<
personally I've never bought that line of Charlie's about some hidden Hollywood scandals beneath the surface of the Family and the murders.
Charlie's gonna sit in jail protecting the secrets of the rich showbiz elite?
Seems a little far-fetched to me, just another way for him to get attention.
shoresendz said...
>>>I could see myself becoming a hardcore member of that group.<<<
well, the sex was probably fun, and the partying, and sleeping in, playing in the sun, and then of course there was Linda's pigtails that I'm sure provided hours of endless entertainment in the short time she was there...
but then there was also the STD's and the guns and knives and the dead bodies turning up and the garbage for dinner and the lack of dental floss.
60skid said...
>>>The Bug hid a lot Monk<<<
and Charlie is in cahoots with Bugliosi to keep those things hidden even 35+ years later?
The man blabs more than Susan Atkins when given the chance. What could he possibly have to gain by keeping these secrets? And for The Bug of all people?
Has the Hollywood Elite promised him a luxurious palace upon his eventual release at the age of 102 as long as he keeps his mouth shut?
shoresendz said...
>>>Can you imagine, taking Lynn and Leslie into the barn and having them both at the same time. Who could really say no to that.<<<
Juan Flynn apparently said no to it eventually, after so many courses of antibiotics.
60skid said...
>>>I always thought it was very intresting ..that Didi Landsbury never came up In HS
Her mother the prim & proper Angela Landsbury ..give her 13 year old a note... it was ok to hang with the family ..and she is on the bus
Why was nothing said about DiDi in HS<<<
60s that's a good question but Angela Lansbury writing that note for her daughter to travel with the gang, while interesting, is hardly an earth-shattering Hollywood scandal.
shoresendz said...
>>>Flynn looked a little strange. Can't picture him getting any of charlies best girls<<<
Stranger than just about anyone who wandered into the scene? He wasn't that strange looking. He was tall and lanky and dark with curly hair and could probably get some tail on his own without having to sell his soul to Charlie, But he wasn't really having it with them.
60skid said...
>>>No its not ..but goes to show you it is never mentioned ..is it ?<<<
60s, perhaps Bugliosi simply didn't think Didi's role in the story was important enough to embarass her or her mother over it.
I guess it's kind of interesting that he left her out, but I'm not seeing it as indicative of any larger scheme.
shoresendz said...
>>>gypsy and brenda<<<
Gypsy always looked a little too greasy to me in pictures and videos, like damn girl wash your hair and your face at the very least!
Brenda was way too hostile and angry in my opinion (but in a phoney, "I'm a tough girl" kind of way). Like Sandy, she strikes me as the type who could be very volatile and change moods rapidly, and WOULDN'T want to be around during a bad mood. Then again maybe it wasn't so phoney considering the Lauren WIllet stuff.
shoresendz said...
>>>i can picture you with bobby and watkins<<<
ok, that was slightly creepy
shoresendz said...
>>>60skid would be blindfolded and then by the time she'd see the blindfold come off shed see bobby on one side and sadie on the other<<<
eeewwww!
60skid, Cats and I will rush and and rescue you before Sadie gets her dirty paws on you
60skid said...
>>>OMG I will have a nightmare tonight<<<
dont worry 60s, the bitch will have to get through cats and I first. won't happen.
we'll be showing Sadie a little street justice in the name of Sharon and 60s!
60skid said...
>>I agree with you ..she always did look kind of greasy..most people think she was so beautiful<<<
she was very pretty in that low-budget cheeseball skin-flick she did with Bobby at Spahn Ranch long before the murders. But I think that was before she swore off showers.
Andy said...
>>>my 2cents
cappy allways looked good to me and country Sue.<<<
Cap always looks to me kind of like a boy in those old pictures.
60skid said...
>>>Monk is a Linda Man right<<<
well, she can be very cute in some pics but she's more like a little sister type.
Salem said...
>>>they did bath in the creek.<<<
but did they use soap?
Salem said...
>>>i heard they made soap<<<
ah! much better. I would have lasted a little longer than I originally thought.
chasingbunnies said...
>>>>I always wondered who Angela Lansbury wrote the note to?<<<
police and/or truant officers?
Oh no I'm showing my age as a child of the 70's and 80's we didn't have truant officers but I'm guessing they did in the 60's?
Maybe Bedknobs and Broomsticks and her daughter had a tug of war relationship; you give me some freedom and I'll love you back and not give you much trouble. Maybe Murder She Wrote had some guilt about her career?
I don't know. It was the 60's, right?
I think Murder She Wrote took Didi out of the country during the Manson trials to escape the scrutiny. She probably realized the folly of her "note" by then.
>>>catscradle77 said...
YOU AINT THE AGNOSTIC MONK<<<
hey cats, that actually really was me. weird. i dont know what happened to my profile and my pic of Linda's pigtails. but i signed back in and all is well?
love the cindy braids :)
Joe said...
>>>3. If Ronnie Howard, Virginia Graham and Danny DeCarlo could testify on the stand about what the murderers told them about their crimes, why would -- as Bug wrote in HS -- Joe Sage's testimony about Linda's confession in New Mexico be hearsay???<<<
Joe, I have wondered the same thing. I wondered that the very first time I read about Linda's New Mexico conversations with Sage about the murders and how Sage then called the ranch and spoke to Charlie. Why couldn't the Bug get that testimony in? That was important corroboration of Linda's testimony, if you ask me. Plus there was a young man there with Linda and Sage during the conversations. Both men confirmed Linda's description of the conversation when questioned by the police. The Bug wasn't allowed to use either as a witness.
Joe said...
>>>THEN, AGAIN, THE BUG LIED IN HIS BOOK WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN'T CALL SAGE AND JACOBS BECAUSE THEIR TESTIMONY WOULD'VE BEEN INADMISSABLE HEARSAY.<<<
how exactly do we know he lied about that?
Angela Lansbury is NOT prim and proper....she only plays that way on tv.....
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