Sunday, July 23, 2006

20th Century Part Three

There's no show without punch- the BUG clearly has nothing better to do than show up on TV!

73 comments:

Deb B said...

I notice that Tex admits his "I'm here to do the Devil's business" statement. He denied it at trial. Here he admits it - I guess it's benefitial to him in this context -"It seemed like I was controlled by another power... as a matter of fact when I went into the house I said..."

Self-serving pr*ck.

GLH said...

Well, now he's controlled by a "higher power". I just wonder how much of what they say is truth or what they believe to be true. How do we know what they said when all that was going on? There's no one alive to back up their stories, well anyone trustworthy, that is.

shoresendz said...

My beloved Col, thanks for making everyday I log on here feel like Christmas.

catscradle77 said...
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meatpile said...

Tex Watson should be put down.

Heaven said...

Maybe it's just me, but I can't get this one to load...

ColScott said...

it is just you
but we love you very much
even if Manson himself never killed anyone

Deb said...

Thanks Colonel, that was great.

Is there anyway you can show that other program that was shown on the History Channel that has Debra Tate in it?

Thanks

Deb

Deb said...

And is there any footage of Bobby speaking? I am getting really piggy I know but what the hell!


LOL

Deb

Heaven said...

LOL... I love you too Col Scott..

If I haven't told you lately, you rock!!!

=)

Heaven said...

YAY! It finally worked.. Must have been a lot of people viewing it all at the same time

Thanks for posting these Col Scott

=)

Heaven said...

Ok, help me out here.. Anyone know who the guy is that said "Yes, I was associated with them"?

=)

meatpile said...

I think it was St. George.

Dok said...

Thanks Col., I love these videos. Deb, I know I just want more and more.

Yepyep said...
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catscradle77 said...
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uncle ace said...
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Deb B said...

The guy in the audience who says he's an associate of the family does look like the guy in green in the Bertice Berry posting. St. George. I'm not sure who Soupspoon is...

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Heaven said...

Ahh gotcha!

Thank you

=)

catscradle77 said...
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Dok said...

Yepyep said...
Whenever I see Tex's face I want to punch it. Does anybody else suffer from this um 'problem'? ;)

Great doc, thanks Col! Here I get to see all the things I can't buy me over here across the pond :)

12:04 AM

I get that same feeling, but I don't see it as a problem : )

Dok said...

catscradle77 said...
Look in Gorightly's assembly of folk in his missive, you shall find the guy in the clip aka Soupspoon.

5:45 AM

LOL! Seems I need to buy yet another book.

catscradle77 said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...

GLH said...
Well, now he's controlled by a "higher power". I just wonder how much of what they say is truth or what they believe to be true. How do we know what they said when all that was going on? There's no one alive to back up their stories, well anyone trustworthy, that is.

there are many. but they arent talking.

GLH said...

Salem said...
there are many. but they arent talking.

There are a few who need to remain quiet - like Bug and Kay. Geez, they're everywhere.

Salem said...

BUG ly is quite the amazing act eh?
He and Charlie are the same age I think, sure hope ole Charlie outlives that bastard.
Peace

ColScott said...

ah yes I remember my cameo in GOGO's book
sadly the book was a waste of trees

catscradle77 said...
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Heaven said...

I know mine isn't the popular opinion, but I liked Gorightly's book.. I know it's a lot of books all rolled into one.. But it was worded so that it holds your interest.. Unlike Ed Sanders book which was boring as hell...

Lots of good info, just poorly worded.

=)

catscradle77 said...
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Salem said...

I never read Gorightly's book..
But didnt he say his pc was hacked? and he thought ATWA had a part in it?
???

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>if it was 1986, when the footage of Blue was filmed with the bracelet, why was she including the Sucatash sisters? I thought they had sworn off the Family by then???<<<

I think for the most part they had. Leslie had, Sadie had, I'm not sure exactly when Patricia did but I'm pretty sure she had by 1986.

Sandy was doing interviews here and there when she got out of jail and did some moving around and she still seemed to be clinging to the hope that the Family would all be together again, that the girls would come back to the fold.

Pat, Susan, and Leslie were probably cringing at the idea that she was still talking about them as though they were all still a Family.

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

Deb B said...
>>>The guy in the audience who says he's an associate of the family does look like the guy in green in the Bertice Berry posting. St. George. I'm not sure who Soupspoon is...<<<

I have no idea who Soupspoon is, but the guy in the audience of the talk show with Doris Tate saying that the Family was "peaceable" was not George Simson (Sandy's one-time partner and guest on the Bertice Berry show).

George was not an associate of the Family back in the Spahn Ranch days. He's better described as a "wanna-be". He didn't come along until well after the murders and he joined up with Sandy to be an intermediary between sandy and Charlie (since Sandy was forbidden to see Charlie) and get the message of ATWA out there.

I don't know who the guy in the Doris Tate talk show audience was but he indicated he knew the Family back in the day. Plus if you look closely at their faces, you can tell they are not the same person).

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>> I wonder if they watch shows with Sandy on them?<<

I wonder that too. Actually I wonder if they watch any TLB stuff when it airs or pay attention to anything written in books/online.

Can you picture them sitting in the prison rec room with a bowl of popcorn watching the 2004 Helter Skelter remake when it aired? Feet up on the coffee table, munching away,

"hey Les that actress is not as pretty as you."

"Gee thanks."

"hey Susan, that actress is MUCH cuter than you."

"Gee, fuck you."

"Hey Pat that actress playing you once played Annie on Broadway."

"Tomorrow, tomorrow I'll be paroled, tomorrow!"

"Oh look at the sad face they hired to play that bitch Linda all scared and confused when we all know Linda masterminded everything."

Munch munch munch.....

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>I mean everyone in the prison has to know who they are anyways...and for stuff on A & E, or whatever to pop up all the time it makes me wonder...what do they say to people...to each other...to themselves..<<<

and have they had to deal with any significant harrasment from other inmates for their crimes? In a man's prison, baby killers are the lowest of the low on par with kiddie diddlers. No matter who did the actual stabbing, Susan and Pat are forever linked with the brutal killing of a just-about-to-be-born baby and his mother. Leslie too for any inmates who don't know the specifics.

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

and do they ever discuss Lynette and Sandy amongst themselves?

Do they remember them fondly? do they think of them now as nutters/obstacles to their release? Are they embarrased about the ridiculous ways they behaved in court during the trial? Do they ever reflect on getting on the stand and making up all kinds of bullshit lies to take the heat of themselves and Charlie? Do they feel even an eeensy-teensy tiny speck of guilt for trying to put everything on Linda or are they resentful of her for cutting the deal?

So many questions. I wish we could have that geriatric Family reunion one day with tea and cookies.

catscradle77 said...
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agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>I wonder if Susan thinks about the deal she gave up.<<<

Oh I would imagine so. She has NO business feeling any resentment towards Linda (if indeed she does or did) since it was Susan's deal to lose. She's the moron who got up there on the grand jury witness stand and described the murders with glee. And she's the moron who recanted and ran back to Manson's side. She made her own bed. In fact, she made all their beds. And she set the stage for the much more sympathetic (from a prosecution standpoint) Linda to take the deal.

Susan was the true snitch IMHO.

agnostic monk said...

Does anyone know who Gold was? Sandy mentions the colors on her bracelet and when she gets to Gold she says "Gold is for a Family woman" but doesn't mention a name.

agnostic monk said...

another interesting tidbit; when the subject of Manson as Christ is being discussed, there is a long-haired hippie-looking dude being interviewed by reporters in the courthouse who states that he believes Manson is a false prophet sent to deceive people.

I think that guy might actually be Bob Kasabian, Linda's husband who introduced her to Melton and Gypsy.

catscradle77 said...
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Deb B said...

Was Atkin's deal that the government would not seek the death penalty against her? If so, I think she would have gotten life and may very well still be right where she is even if she had stuck to the deal. Could she have gotten parole?

GLH said...

Could you imagine the outcome by now had Atkins gotten the deal instead of Linda? I would wager that Kasabian, as well as Clem, would have been paroled by now. Van Houten and Bobby would most likely have been granted parole. It would have put a completely different twist on the convictions, I think. But that's all speculation. You might as well say "what if they had been in an accident on the way to Cielo....."

agnostic monk said...

GLH said...
>>>>Could you imagine the outcome by now had Atkins gotten the deal instead of Linda? I would wager that Kasabian, as well as Clem, would have been paroled by now. Van Houten and Bobby would most likely have been granted parole. It would have put a completely different twist on the convictions, I think.<<<

Interesting idea, G. I don't know trial law, so I wonder if Atkins got the deal could Kasabian's attorney have petitioned for his defendant to be tried separately? The umbrella defense was chosen by the actual defendants was it not? Either way, Charlie, Leslie, and Pat would have hated Susan at the time for testifying, and Linda would most likely not have joined hands with them and sang songs while parading down the hallway nor joined in with the courtroom antics (IMHO), so I agree things would have looked a lot different.

>>>You might as well say "what if they had been in an accident on the way to Cielo....."<<<<

I volunteer to go back in time and slit the tires of Johnny Swartz 1959 Ford. Anyone got a time machine handy?

Pristash said...

Clem is already out now, right?

agnostic monk said...

Deb B said...
>>>Was Atkin's deal that the government would not seek the death penalty against her? If so, I think she would have gotten life and may very well still be right where she is even if she had stuck to the deal. Could she have gotten parole?<<<

It seems they left it intentionally vague because they obviously were concerned about her following through.

According to the Bug's book, they agreed to not seek the death penalty against her in either the Hinman, Tate, or Labianca murders.

The legal memorandum goes on to state "The extent to which the District Attorney's Office will assist Defense Counsel in an attempt to seek less than a first degree murder, life sentence, will depend upon the extent to which Susan Atkins continues to cooperate."

Salem said...

I volunteer to go back in time and slit the tires of Johnny Swartz 1959 Ford. Anyone got a time machine handy?

9:07 AM

I would go back and have Tex od in Texas.

GLH said...

Well, Salem, that's "nipping it in the bud", isn't it! :)

Salem said...

GLH said...
Well, Salem, that's "nipping it in the bud", isn't it! :)

3:21 PM

LOL
yeah,
as Barney Fife said..NIP IT IN THE BUD ANDY! LMAO

Yepyep said...
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catscradle77 said...
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Yepyep said...
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agnostic monk said...

It looks like what they did was take the A&E Biography show "The Manson Women: An American Nightmare" and redid the narration for a Dutch audience.

Good find. The A&E Channel sells their original version on their website.

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>Was that Linda K. walking ahead of Leslie during her new trial? Linda with short hair and no pigtails??? (I am sorry Monk)<<<

LOL Cats. Are you referring to the shots of her in the big white shirt? Yes that is Linda walking ahead of Leslie but it was not during the re-trial, it was during the pre-trial arraignment period after they had all been rounded up. Linda is pregnant with Angel in that shot. I doubt Linda and Leslie were ever in the same room outside the actual courtroom during Leslie's retrial.

Leslie looks totally zoned out in that sequence dont ya think?

The Pat, Leslie, Squeaky, and Charlie interviews are from Diane Sawyer's interviews with them that I guess the A&E producers acquired from Sawyer/ABC. You can hear Sawyer asking questions even though they don't show her.

Look at me I'm such a know-it-all. :)

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Yepyep said...
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Yepyep said...
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4Sharon said...

Maybe someone already caught this- haven't seen EACH reply here, but isn't that Steven Kay, not Bug talking?
OBVIOUSLY Tex was demon possessed, when he did all that! But, as Doris says, you still have to pay for the crime!!!!! Even if he IS a Christian now, he has to pay for the crime...they don't deserve to be set free, because they may have changed thier belief/actions.
Sandra Good and Squeaky? Geez, keep them locked up in a mental ward, for crying out loud.

4Sharon said...

I stand corrected...I see Bug talking in the NEXT episode. Sorry.

4Sharon said...

I would LOVE to see more video clips of Doris talking, as I have not seen many of her, only Patti.

grimtraveller said...

Salem said...

"BUG is quite the amazing act eh? He and Charlie are the same age I think, sure hope ole Charlie outlives that bastard"


Well, you got your wish Freddie Salem !

grimtraveller said...

Heaven said...

"I know mine isn't the popular opinion, but I liked Gorightly's book.. I know it's a lot of books all rolled into one.."


As of 2015, I've found a few Manson books to be like that or full of info culled from other books, like Guinn's one. Even Tex's first one has parts of HS when it comes to the murders. I don't think he honestly remembers the details from his actual memory.

grimtraveller said...

agnostic monk said...

"She has NO business feeling any resentment towards Linda (if indeed she does or did) since it was Susan's deal to lose"


Her final manuscript that was unfinished {The myth of Helter Skelter} found her still resenting Linda, if one reads between the lines.


agnostic monk said...

"And she set the stage for the much more sympathetic (from a prosecution standpoint) Linda to take the deal"


In the first instance Bugliosi hadn't wanted Susan. His initial response to her getting a deal was "We don't give that gal anything !" but he later was forced to concede that without her, they didn't have a case. Her lawyer, Richard Caballero seemed to think it was only a matter of time before she went back to Charlie and Bugliosi says that it was arranged that hers and Manson's arraignments were on different days because he didn't want them to meet ¬> he was afraid he'd persuade her to recant her grand jury testimony.
He didn't think Linda could testify to anything other than Steven Parent's murder but he seemed to have her in the back of his mind if Susan was to recant. It was only when she did recant and he needed an eyewitness {not just to convict Manson, but all of them} that he went for Linda.
Susan for her troubles more or less states that she recanted to protect her son from Charlie's threats while at the same time blames the prosecution for not protecting her and hoping she'd run back to Charlie so they could get Linda to testify as it was clear she "hadn't murdered anyone."


agnostic monk said..

"Susan was the true snitch IMHO"


And who did the prosecution learn Linda hadn't murdered anyone from ? Actually, they learned it from a surprising source......Leslie Van Houten. Before she was ever connected by law enforcement with the LaBianca killings and before they even knew her real name she was interviewed in LA in and around the last week of November '69 by Mike McGann. In that interview, she said three girls and one man were in on Tate and that 'Linda' was the one girl "who didn't murder someone while they was up there", clearly dropping Pat & Susan in it as murderers.
Although Susan had told Virginia Graham & Ronnie Howard {and according to an interview in "Death to pigs", one Nancy Jordon} about the murders, they were jailmates and she wasn't expecting any of them to go and tell the police. She herself was only in jail because Kitty Lutesinger implicated her in the Hinman killing. So the point at which Susan became a snitch was when she was actually told that there was enough evidence to convict her and she decided to go before the grand jury. Leslie, Kitty and Danny DeCarlo had all beaten Susan Atkins to the punch as far as damning information to the police goes.