Friday, January 19, 2007

When Gypsy Met Nellie PART THREE












This is all COPYRIGHTED 1997 Bill Nelson's Ghost.

We pick up with Nelson babbling about Gypsy again...we are finished here learning about what a great Chick Catherine grew up to be.
(pictures are precisely from the evil shoot that Nellie performed)


Yes. Some of that letter was tongue and cheek. But it did the job. The Best Selling author was none other than Mr. Vincent Bugliosi himself, as he was using me quite often by telephone to complete his “update” version of Helter Skelter for the 25th year anniversary. Janna had begun to call Mr. Bugliosi and he asked me what I thought about her. I told him. Catherine eventually tried to convince Mr. Bugliosi of the benefit of him working with her for her project, book manuscript, or movie. But there was a problem, Catherine knew that she had committed perjury when she testified that the Tate murders were COPY CAT MURDERS and she feared a prosecution. Mr. Bugliosi told Catherine, on the telephone, that he knew she was lying then.

Both Janna and Share refuted to deal with me after our exchange of letters, so I just went on with my life, disappointed that I, the great salesman, had not been successful at getting any of the Manson gang to do something more worthwhile in the media. I mean, if I couldn’t get it done, who could? That is all I was hearing.

Janna and Catherine did try a really deceptive trick. Not wanting to deal with me any longer because I brought up questions about: “What did you do in the Shorty Shea murder, anyway, Catherine?” I read a lot of the transcripts and it said that you drove the car of Shorty Shea to a shopping center, ditched it, then hitchhiked back to the ranch. Tell me about your involvement!”

Share responded to my question with, “What are you trying to do, Bill, there is no statue on murder, I won’t discuss that with you. I don’t even discuss that with my husband. I wouldn’t discuss that with my best friend!”

So much for redemption, confession and a new life in Christ. Ed Sanders was right, when he stated, “People who get Born Again, tend not to talk about dead bodies.”

Catherine tried to get a letter to Dianne Lake, “Snake” in the Manson family. I have told Catherine I really liked Dianne, that she did in fact have a genuine conversation to Christianity and that her life shoed it. Catherine must have been fascinated by that knowledge, because she sent a letter to Vincent Bugliosi, with another envelope inside. Sealed! Addressed to:

Dianne Lake

Personal and confidential

(The envelope was hand written, with no postage stamp attached.)

I had gone to my post office box one day and found an envelope from Mr. Bugliosi. I had not talked to him for a while, so I was a little surprised. Inside was this hurriedly written note from Mr. Bugliosi, “Bill, Could you forward this on to Dianne Lake for Catherine Share?” Thanks, Vince”

As I sat in my car, still parked at the post office, I looked at the envelope hand written by Catherine to Dianne. It puzzled me and I had the most awful feeling about forwarding it to Dianne. I’m not given to images from the spirit world, voices directly from God, or vibrations (vibes) as they say, but I was definitely aware that this was not good for me! Since I operated a post office in the U.S. Navy, I took the position that this was not “United States Mail” since it carried no postage. Catherine and Janna, then Vince, thought I should pay the postage to “forward” a message to Dianne Lake? I didn’t think so.

As I sat there, I opened and read the message. I was angered and shocked. Totally deceptive, lacking any kind of moral value to me as a person. Catherine told Dianne that I had caused her a lot of trouble, that she did not trust me, that even Susan Atkins had said that when I did not get my way, I turned on her. None of those statements are true. I simply placed the correspondence in my files, and chose not to forward it. Not too long afterwards, I penned s note to Vince Bugliosi telling him of my actions. He called me, and expressed deep concern that I had not forwarded the letter as requested. I told him that it was not a “letter” in the trust sense and he then called me back to tell me that both share and Ms. Hughes demanded their correspondence returned to them. Well, I did not think that was necessary, but to remain friends with Mr. Bugliosi, I sent it back. I also placed a telephone call to the residence of Dianne Lake. I told her and her husband of the failed attempt, and I was told without reservation: “If you had forwarded that correspondence to Dianne, we would have cut off all communications with you!” “That would have been the end of it!”

The letter that Ms Hughes tried to forward to Dianne, I kept a copy of, to protect me if necessary in the future should she ask an attorney to try and intimidated me again. It gave some insights into her background and established her contacts. Yes! You are right. The same connection as Mr. Charles “Tex” Watson.

The letter read in part:

Dear Ms. Lake,

Catherine and others told me that your life changed. (The only others, was me, for I am the only one who knew about her life. A deception by Ms. Hughes in her opening comment to Dianne.)

If you happened to see the recent A CURRENT AIFFAIR piece, I am sure you are aware that her life had changed, too.

Four years ago, I was introduced to Catherine by Captain Ray for whom I produced documentary television programs. In addition, I also wrote and produced a national TV special on youth suicide. As you are aware, I am working on the Catherine “Gypsy” Share story in book and screen, which is going well. I understand that though you spent a lot of time together, you were not aware of her roots in Paris and the political implications of her life.

An important part of my work with Catherine is to see that she is properly presented in the media, which includes not being misrepresented for the sake of sensationalism or taken for a ride. As I am sure you are aware, this is something that can happen.

(Skipping a few paragraphs, she continues)

I was shocked when I recently came across a currently active cult here in Texas, which is connected, to Manson. It is well organized and linked to Europe and actively recruiting new members. (That information was received through Mr. bill Murphy representing the BBC on a television taping expedition to the United States. I had been working with him and even took him to see Bruce Davis, Manson Lt. of murder, housed at CMC in San Luis Obispo. Bill asked me if he could contact Share and I gave him Janna’s number)

I am convinced that Catherine would not have led a life of crime were it not for Manson’s influence. I suspect that Manson has a similar impact on the lives of everyone who trusted him, whether or not the issue was crime.

Currently, I am working on an independent production which I expect to have an awakening impact on today’s society, something that shows important aspects which have been overlooked or underplayed (perhaps because of the emphasis on sensationalism) A piece that shows how someone can be drawn into a cult (an ongoing problem) and one that will have a significant historical value. The INSIDE OUT story.

I am not interested in raking over the old coals. Of what value is that to anyone at this time? That isn’t the story that needs to be told.

Catherine has told me about how good hearted each of the followers was prior to being “taken over.” This story has value to society.

Her letter went on telling Dianne not to fear them being able to trace where she called from, stating that “we do not have caller ID here yet” so she should not hesitate to call. Let me make a few observations. First, Ms. Hughes previously did a video piece, many years ago that I understand from her own lips was called “San Quentin’s Angels” of all things. Tex Watson was included in the piece, and I believe Chaplain ray had something to do with it. I have never heard of it before, nor have I been able to obtain a copy of it.

Secondly, Ms Hughes takes the position that these individuals were “take over” by Manson. Manson did have a great deal of control over many of the members. But Mr. Watson came and went at will. So did others. Dianne Lake ever told me that she did not always stay where Manson told her to go. Bruce Davis left often! The members of the Manson family allowed themselves to be used by Charlie. They chose to go to him and they chose to stay with him. They chose to kill and when it became objectionable to one of them, Linda Kasabian for instance, she did not kill.

Thirdly, Ms. Hughes says that Catherine would not have taken up a life of crime, were it not for Manson. That is simply not true. You have just read several news accounts of Catherine “Gypsy” Share, Como, Jessica, choosing a life of crime subsequent to her “being controlled” by Manson. Share made life choices. It seems to be, that should be the message to our youth of today. We have life choices.

We have free will and if we put ourselves under the influence of demonic powers, depraved individuals, other partners in crime, or marry convicted criminals, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Tex Watson was anti-social before Manson. He did drugs, he sold drugs, he stole property, and he drove drunk and was cited often in Texas. He creepy crawled other people’s houses as a prank. Susan Atkins ran with convicted men, and stated that she should have killed the police officer when she had the chance. She did drugs. She stole, shop lifted and she was anti-social. Leslie was aniti-social, into drug abuse and she had an abortion when it was still unlawful, which she admits caused her great strain in family relationships. Pat did drugs, lots of them. Bruce Davis had a life of crime, you will see more clearly in a few pages. Sandra, Squeaky, Cappy, what more shall we say?

Catherine’s like to Mr. Bugliosi

Mr. Bugliosi told me “You must be wrong on that, Bill, maybe you got your information incorrect.” Catherine told me that she is not in a witness protection program.”

Well, sorry to beg the differ with our sir, but I did not get any message wrong! Quite the contrary.

Do you remember the story about Doug Rittenhouse pulling illegally the private residence of Catherine Share when we were in Texas, with the help of a California police officer? Do you remember the letter I wrote to Catherine about that illegal activity? Not only did I learn from Tommy Thompson of the Modesto Christian Yellow Pages that she was in the Federal Witness Protection Program. I received a telephone call from Mr. Patrick Shannahan.

At 5:00 pm. August 19, 1993, I received a personal call, from Patrick Shannahan and we had not spoken prior to the call. He asked me if I would talk with him and I said of course I would. Mr. Shannahan then proceeded to inform me that after receiving my letter about what Rittenhouse did, they sold the T Bird, moved to another location, changed their telephone and went to underground once again! He was exasperated about the situation. IN fact, he even gave me the telephone number to his contact in the United States Justice Department and taking him up on his offer, I placed several 2000 and was given extension 3684 and I spoke with Liz. I identified myself to her. I asked to speak to Mr. Gerald sure (Phonetic) Office of Enforcement Operations, Washington, DC. He was not available. I asked Liz how they could justify our government paying to hide Catherine “Gypsy” Share, Como, Shannahan, while at the same time allowing her to do a tabloid print article, a feature on A Current Affair, etc. Liz was shocked and her voice showed that she was alarmed. I placed another call on March 3, 1994. Mr. Gerald Sure, whom Mr. Shannahan told me to call, never returned my call!

How could he? Think about it. Gypsy was financed and protected by the federal government and Washington bureaucrats could not admit that she was protected, or the admittance would make her unprotected. Liz told me during another call to contact John Russell, extension 2007, public affairs, and the Justice department. Trust m, Share is part of a Federal Witness Protection Program!

When that happened and Mr. Bugliosi questioned my accuracy in the information I placed a telephone call to Mr. Tommy Thompson. I was curious about what social security number Gypsy has used when she was employed by him. I wanted to do a legal social search, with a computer program that I have. I obtained it when I was searching for Mason family members. Mind you, we may not pull credit information, without a written release by the person, but a social search is legal. (So, keep those numbers on your friends and acquaintances and you will always be able to find them.)

Tommy called me back and told me the most amazing story.

He informed me that the file on Catherine Share was missing! Catherine had called Tommy when I began calling her and she knew she told me about the witness protection program. She told me, “Tommy is getting old, he gets things wrong. I doubted Tommy! How could the files be missing?

I met him on my way back from Sacramento when I met with the Sacramento Bee newspaper staff member and I told Tommy that he was required to maintain his files for the IRS for several years. He looked at me, paused, and said, “I don’t know. Her file is gone. I did have a young man helping me with some filing, but I don’t think he would have done anything with it.” His expression was one of perplexity! Then I knew by his expression on his face that he was telling me the truth.

So how could it happen? Well, there was the history of Catherine in criminal activity. There are the Federal Witness people; there is the possibility that they just vanished. Sure.

Catherine told me once, “If you say the name Manson and Shannahan together, people will be killed. I could be killed. You cannot do it.” So why am I doing it?

She called me a liar and that was unnecessary. She placed her credibility next to mine and asked Mr. Bugliosi to believe her. She offended me and she certainly did not find support for her false statement in friendships or biblical passages. She exhibited the same kind of poor judgment shown by Susan Atkins, Tex Watson and Bruce Davis when they feel threatened. They seem to lack a character base that could guide them away from lying.

Gypsy did not date Como, she married him. Gypsy did not wait in the van during the Hawthorne shoot-out, she fired the first shot blowing out the window of the police are blocking the alley. Gypsy had never told the truth about her involvement in the Shorty Shea murder. Gypsy defended running away to Canada from the federal authorities after her credit card scheme, even receiving advice and counsel from Christians who told her it was not time to turn herself into the FBI. Gypsy was working on a book deal and possibly a movie project while at the same time she demanded that god did not want her to go public yet. Gypsy continues to lack truthfulness.

Recently, I had an occasion to drive to the mountains outside Riverside. I stopped at a food-serving establishment and just felt led to share about my book that I was writing. People in far off communities really like the Manson intrigue. She asked me what the subject was. “It is a book on the Manson case.”

“You’re kidding!” she said.

“No. I am not kidding.” I told her that I wrote a book on Watson, but this one was a story “behind the scenes” so to speak. I shall never forget her response.

“You know, you would be surprised about what some of them are doing I understand that there is one of them who is actually teaching our children.”

“Around here?” I inquired.

“No. Up in Central California.” She could not recall which female, but thought the name would come to her later

“There is even one of them in a Witness Protection Program, and we are now paying for her, do you believe that?

Stunned, I inquired who it was. “Gypsy! That’s who.”

I wondered how she could know such a thing. She continued without much prodding. “I use to run in some of the same circles as she did, over in the Lake Havasue area. There are at least two contracts out on her. I’m serious! There are two, maybe more murder contracts out on Gypsy.

“Hey, if she told you she could be killed, she told you right!” “No! I don’t want the name she now sues. I don’t even want to know!” The lady threw her hand up with palms out towards me, she meant NO.

Catherine Share has used her name in a public fashion and she has sought out the press. She has appeared on television and tabloid print after she gave the KCBS interview. One more reason why I share the name Catherine “Gypsy” Share Shannahan is because I do not want some person coming to my door and asking for the information.

I do not know what all she is involve din but I can say this. I placed a call to her church late in 1996. I spoke with Deborah the co-pastor briefly and was told that Catherine, not Ms. Hughes does not attend their church any longer. Deborah was not at liberty to tell me where Catherine had gone. Yes, I did ask.

Catherine is a mysterious person, deeply involved throughout her life in counter cultural activates. Quoting Tommy Thompson, “Catherine still has a little larceny in her.”

62 comments:

deadwoodhbo said...

Fantastic read thanks Col

jempud said...

Col:

I'm really enjoying these posts (although my opinion of Bill Nelson is rapidly diminishing).

Thanks for all the hard work.

Jem

jempud said...

This Bill Nelson is unbelievable:

Somehow in possession of a letter addressed to a third party he assumes the curious position that:

Since I operated a post office in the U.S. Navy … this was not “United States Mail” since it carried no postage”

(Like his previous work experience determines US Postal policy)

So he opens the letter, from one third party to another, reads it and …

… was angered and shocked. Totally deceptive, lacking any kind of moral value to me as a person.

(He might be talking about himself here, don't you think?)

He then goes on to complain that:

Catherine told Dianne that I had caused her a lot of trouble, that she did not trust me …

(Well, you can kind of see her point …)

I don’t often use strong language, but this Nelson seems a bit of an a**h*le. Or maybe you knew that already?

Whatever, I’m now keen to see what happened when (if) he took Cappy into the desert ..

When (if) Col gets there.

Keep it up, Col.

Jempud

Salem said...

Charlie will not be attending his parole hearing this year, and it is not because of Ms Tate or anyone else being there that day.
Peace

Salem said...

For deadwood

charles isnt well. He had a good chance of parole this time, as they want to get rid of him now that he is sick. *figures huh?

He said, he never told anyone to do anything and this is from a dying man. why woud he lie?
oh well
Hope all the Bible thumping LIARS are happy.

jempud said...

Salem dice: charles isnt well.

And he isn't young, either ... age catches up on all of us.

He had a good chance of parole this time

chance would be a fine thing - don't you think it would be political suicide for anyone to condone his release ..

He said, he never told anyone to do anything

Well, who do you believe? Who can you believe? See Dianne Lake's testimony: although her account of Tex's admission that Charlie told him to kill is presumably hearsay and therefore inadmissable in a court of law, I have to say that I'd be more inclined to believe a reformed Dianne (someone who seems to have really put the past behind her) than a dying CM.

and this is from a dying man. why woud he lie?

Many reasons, including the very strong suggestion that he is and has for a long time been delusional. But history holds many examples of people who went to their death defiant in their denial of what subsequently turned out to be true events/fact.

Hope all the Bible thumping LIARS are happy.

Not sure who you're talking to/about here. I'm not happy to contemplate anyone's imminent death, whoever they may be - unless it will put an end to their pain and suffering. As Thomas a Kempis said, "Man proposes and God disposes".

Jem

Salem said...

I WAS NOT REFERING TO ANYONE HERE. I WAS REFERING TO WATSON AND ATKINS AND DAVIS.
72 ISNT THAT OLD EITHER WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT TODAYS MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY.

NO.MANSON NEVER ORDERED THOSE KILINGS AND I WILL NEVER BELEIVE HE DID.

delusional????? NOPE
HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO HIM?
YES HE HAS ASKED FOR A CELL PHONE BUT WAS JUST JOKING ABOUT IT.

Salem said...

tex watson is a know liar and a madman!
he did the killings! He made some kill. may he rot in hell!

Salem said...

KNOWN*

jempud said...

No, Dianne, I have never talked to CM – nor am I likely to. But I’ve seen many video clips of him at different stages, and read many of his writings. If you analyze what he says and how he says it, or look at the way he writes (both his handwriting and his often incomprehensible content) you don’t have to be a trained psychologist to see the workings of a confused mind.

Who knows – perhaps it’s true that head injuries at reform school caused him permanent damage. Perhaps he did too many drugs, too many bad drugs, with lasting effects. But even as early as 1951 a psychiatrist who examined him noted a "marked degree of rejection, instability and psychic trauma” – and the following year he was classified as ‘dangerous’ after sodomizing a young boy while holding a razor blade to his throat – hardly rational behaviour, whichever way you look at it.

I know you have strong feelings about this – I have no interest either way, but the evidence does seem to support the idea that in CM’s case the lift doesn’t get to the top floor.

Jem

Salem said...

No, Dianne, I have never talked to CM – nor am I likely to.

well there ya go.
I have talked to him and also his writings can be hard to understand if he is writing in code as he has to many times.
:)
He can act crazy when he needs to and has. I think after 30 some years in prison it works a number on your head. Do u not agree?
anyways..
have a nice week.

Salem said...

DAYUMMMMMMMM
WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE BUSH THEN?
:)

jempud said...

Salem dice: charles isnt well

Do you know what's wrong with him, Dianne?

Jem

Salem said...

yes I do.
But I would Never tell, every one here hates him and would relish in making fun of him.
so, for everyone who thinks hes a BOGGEYman , rest well, cuz he's very sick.
and also about the sodomy act in 1951 as u mentioned, I guess after C had been raped for months and he couldnt go to the guards as they were raping him also, so he did what he did! I would have done the same but probally much more to someone that had molested me for months!
peace

jempud said...

Dianne

That's fine - i respect you for that. And I for one don't hate CM. I don't love him either, in fact I really find it hard to have any emotional involvement at all. Guess that's because I know/knew none of the people involved.

I was just curious .. as I am about so many things tied up with him.

Peace

Jem

Salem said...

Peace to you also.

Salem said...

I would like to take this time to say to
Dear Martha
CM doesnt care to see nor have letters from you.
Its a little too late.

Heaven said...

Charlie isn't well?

Considering he's 72, I don't expect him to be in perfect health. But he has outlived
Patti Tate, Dennis Wilson, Terry Melcher, Paul Watkins.. ETC...

I guess I'm of the opinion that if prison life was so hard on Charlie when he was young, maybe he should have stayed out of trouble...

It's kinda hard to have a lot of sympathy for someone who caused his own problems...
And yes, I feel the same way about Tex, Susan, Leslie and Patricia...

=)

Salem said...

(((((Heaven))))
Hi
Good to see ya here!

I have to drop out for awile, i think I told ya my mom has cancer she's 72yrs old, and my step dad is in ICU 3 heart attacks, things are so hectic.
talk to ya soon!
peace
Dianne

Heaven said...

I'm sorry to hear that Dianne... I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts....

Salem said...

thank you Heaven:)

me

jempud said...

Dianne

Picked this up a little late (time zone thing), but wanted to wish you and your family the best.

I only have my mum now (she's 88, bless her) - my father died recently also aged 88 - and I have learned to appreciate my older family more as I get older myself.

Love and peace

Jem

Salem said...

Thank you Jem.

I have learned to appreciate my family more as I get older too. It's kinda hard being the oldest, seems everything falls on you.
But I will get thr this.
Thank you !
ya mom is 88! thats cool!Hope all goes well.
peace

deadwoodhbo said...

Salem said...
For deadwood

charles isnt well. He had a good chance of parole this time, as they want to get rid of him now that he is sick. *figures huh?

Thank you for the infor salem,the one song i love is "BLACKBIRD"and i think its time for Charlie to fly.

deadwoodhbo said...

jempud said...
No, Dianne, I have never talked to CM – nor am I likely to. But I’ve seen many video clips of him at different stages, and read many of his writings. If you analyze what he says and how he says it, or look at the way he writes (both his handwriting and his often incomprehensible content) you don’t have to be a trained psychologist to see the workings of a confused mind.

Jem i was wondering could all His wild behaver be one big hell of a act.Could He be fooling us all?

deadwoodhbo said...

Salem said...
I would like to take this time to say to
Dear Martha
CM doesnt care to see nor have letters from you.
Its a little too late.

3:04 PM, January 29, 2007
Salem who is martha?:P

deadwoodhbo said...

Sorry to hear your parents are unwell Salem.

Salem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Salem said...

FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO HEAR MORE AND KNOW MORE ABOUT CHARLES AND MAYBE HELP HIM OUT A BIT
HERES THE SITE.
ITS STILL BEING WORKED ON, SO KEEP CK ING.

www.mansonspeaks.com

thanks

jempud said...

deadwoodhbo dice

i was wondering could all His wild behaver be one big hell of a act.Could He be fooling us all?

Well - if you listen to him on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cijfMQuiB_s&mode=related&search= he himself says that everything he ever says or does is an act.

His language and behaviour on this clip - if typical - evidence a jumble of mood swings, irrational beliefs and incoherence wrapped up in a charismatic outer shell of glib and apparently coherent speech.

Put another way, what he says sounds convincing, sounds like it makes sense but just doesn't stand up to analysis.

Test this hypothesis by trying to summarise or paraphrase his words. You'll see that what he is saying is often unclear, frequently inconsistent, and his pov moves around all the time - he talks a lot of the time to a fabricated 'you', presumably representing American society, from the pov of a Messiah (another delusion?), etc.

Or is it just me?

Jem

jempud said...

Out of interest I did a whois on mansonspeaks.com – the domain was created on 2006-08-22 and hasn’t been updated since 2006-08-25.

No content yet and no RSS feed but I’ll keep an eye on it.

Thanks, Dianne

Jem

Salem said...

No content yet and no RSS feed but I’ll keep an eye on it.

Thanks, Dianne

Jem
Its been in the making since then, yes.
Keep ck ing back if you wish.
peace

angeLos said...

Salem a dit...

NO.MANSON NEVER ORDERED THOSE KILINGS AND I WILL NEVER BELEIVE HE DID.

Yes, you are right , Charles Manson never ordered those killings, he did not say just before the LB murders...go ahead and kill them...he said "don't let them know you are going to kill them" ...those killings have been suggested by Charles Manson. And the ones who perpetrated the killings were so weak and scared of CM reactions that the obeyed him ...as shocking and crazy as it may be...!

Now CM plays with the words, "I did not kill anybody and I did not order anybody to be killed...he could add ... I was smart enough to choose the right people at the right time...
he asked the right persons to get their black suits on...like a good General he new wich "friends" would not dare to say no and confront him.
I don't hate CM, nor do I like him, and I am not indifferent to him, I think in he's young life he has been most unlucky and he did not have a fair trial...I guess I don't like Generals... but who cares right ? and of course not even talking about all the racist "philosophy" and ambiguity and so on etc... that just turn me off instantaneously and make me sick.

jempud said...

angeLos ha dicho...
Salem a dit...

NO.MANSON NEVER ORDERED THOSE KILINGS AND I WILL NEVER BELEIVE HE DID.


I too have one or two problems with the concept that Charlie never ordered anyone to kill. It smacks of sophistry. To those who hold to this point of view I ask these questions:

a) why did CM tell the killers to take a change of clothes when they left for Cielo Drive?

b) CM went to Cielo Drive AFTER the killings to leave confusing evidence and attempt – who knows why – to move the bodies. Doesn’t this alone makes him an accessory after the fact – if he knew about the murders he was duty bound to inform the police?

c) The following day KNOWING ABOUT THE PREVIOUS NIGHT’S MURDERS – CM again orders changes of clothing, and then drives off with (more or less) the same group of killers and actually ties up the victims ready for slaughter – leaving before they are butchered. What was the point of tying them up ? What did he expect the others to do?

There are other questions I might put but these will do for now. CM engineered these murders, orchestrated the whole play, knew at all times what would happen and made no attempt to prevent it. Does this really make him innocent?

I don't know, I wasn't there, but using the evidence I find it hard to accept.

Jem

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
deadwoodhbo said...

I am in good faith for Charlie,i believe tex watson did the tate murders on his own comands.
watson wanted to be Charlie or at least be His number 2 man.
Tex watson has found God RIGHT!!!!!.
WATSON your a waste of tax payers money.Rot! in hell .

ColScott said...

Martha is Paul Watkins widow. According to Salem's most current hallucinations, Martha is desperate to get a letter to Manson for reasons that cannot even be speculated about. Salem is speaking for Charlie when she tell Martha go away. She also orders for Charlie on the Home Shopping Network.

jempud said...

ColScott dice...

According to Salem's most current hallucinations, ....

Not the friendliest way to put it, Col, to refer like that to one of the people who help contribute to your blog.

Or have I missed something?

One of the things I have enjoyed about this blog has been the civil way in which members address each other and respect differences - I know it hasn't always been that way, but surely it's something we can aspire to ?

Jem

Salem said...

hi Jem
its ok I was leaving anyway.

I have no hallucinations.. Charlie thought it funny that Martha wanted to visit him, he denied her visit.
I don't order anything from HSN for Charles either Col Scott.
He is allowed 140 $ a month and lately has been kinda slow with any one but a few helping him out.
The site www.mansonspeaks.com is set up to help him .
So if you are interested, ck it out , keep cking back.
maybe I will see ya there.
peace too all.

deadwoodhbo said...

ColScott said...
Martha is Paul Watkins widow. According to Salem's most current hallucinations, Martha is desperate to get a letter to Manson for reasons that cannot even be speculated about. Salem is speaking for Charlie when she tell Martha go away. She also orders for Charlie on the Home Shopping Network.

9:38 AM, February 02, 2007

thank You Col for telling me who Martha is.

ColScott said...

Anyone civil is allowed to contribute Jem but that doesn't make them sane.

jempud said...

ColScott dice

Anyone civil is allowed to contribute Jem but that doesn't make them sane.

True enough - but which shall we value the higher - courtesy or reason? And which of us really has a monopoly on truth, or can say with authority where sanity ends and mental illness begins?

You probably know more than I do about this particular instance, and doubtless there is no shoratge of flakes on the web - this topic alone would be a magnet to them - but my concern was simply one of manners and breeding.

My other concern is for the truth, and as a lifelong empiricist I shall take claims in this blog as just that, claims. Along with William of Ockham (Occam?) I hold that entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem ('when faced with a multiplicity of conflicting theories go for the simplest' - my translation).

Lo dejamos allĂ­.

Thanks as always for your blog

Jem

Salem said...

Dear Col Scott

I am not insane. I have always told the truth as I know it.

Do you talk to CM? I dont think so.
I am not here to profit off of anyone nor change any ones mind about anything, so if you have me in the insanity clause here, I bid you farewell and good luck with your endeavors.

deadwoodhbo said...

Salem said...
Dear Col Scott

I am not insane. I have always told the truth as I know it.

Do you talk to CM? I dont think so.
I am not here to profit off of anyone nor change any ones mind about anything, so if you have me in the insanity clause here, I bid you farewell and good luck with your endeavors.

9:50 AM, February 04, 2007

Oh Salem Cols just trying to get under your skin.You cant go your a legend here:P

jempud said...

I don't see that anyone has to go - surely we can respect each other, say what we like (politely) and choose what we want to believe?

I'm new here and just getting to know people - so, Dianne, don't go just as I'm arriving! And Col - think what you want but as owner of this blog please consider treating your blog members with respect and dignity, whetever you yourself believe. Or maybe we'll all go away and you'll be blogging to an empty audience (just kidding) :-)

Jem

FreeCharlieNow said...

You needn't worry about Salem ever leaving this blog. It's a constant threat she makes but she never follows through.
As for her talking to Charlie, he tells me that he has no idea who Salem/Dianne is. She lives in her own little world of make believe. We simply smile and nod.

jempud said...

OK, I see others on this list know a lot more than I do about Salem/Dianne's posting history.

But, a question. If blog members continue to claim a hotline to CM, how can we know if they are telling the truth or not? What would satisfy us as evidence?

And, even, is there any reason at all to think that CM knows ANY of the people who post on this blog?

Jem

FreeCharlieNow said...

Salem is nuts, plain and simple. There simply isn't any other way to put it.
She claims to be the right hand of Charles Manson, but many people do have contact with him and he has no idea who this person is.
Salem says she owns Charlie's thongs, but has also said that she's thrown them away because of the *bad karma* associated with them. Then she forgets that she tossed them out and will say she's looking at them right now.

She also says that her husband has no idea that she is in *contact* with Charlie, that she even has anything to do with anything even remotely related to Charlie. Then she'll forget that lie and post in here as her husband. Then she'll come back in at a later time and say that if her husband ever found out that she was even on this blog, he'd leave her.

She's been on other discussion forums claiming that she is being stalked by Brad Pitt. Let's see, she's also had restraining orders put against her for harassing and stalking other Manson site owners.

She's claimed that her mother was a close personal friend of Jay SEbring and that she was invited to Cielo the night of the murders. Uh huh.

She also claimed her uncle was in the CIA and that he'd gone to Cielo and stolen the celebrity porn tapes after the murders. lol

She says she's a member of Hells Angels.

Her stories to get better and better.

She seriously isn't playing with a full deck. But hey, it's a free country, she can act looney and people can believe whatever they want.

But now you know why she can only tell just small bits and pieces of each new story she brings to us. Charlie is watching her and he doesn't like her giving out too much info.

jempud said...

Thanks for that, FreeCharlieNow

Jempud

FreeCharlieNow said...

You're welcome.
Just take any info from her with a grain of salt and know that Col Scott isn't too far off when he says she's hallucinating.

jempud said...

FreeCharlieNow dice

You're welcome.
Just take any info from her with a grain of salt


well I did anyway .. as I said I'm something of an empiricist. Also I teach evaluation and critical thinking ...

and know that Col Scott isn't too far off when he says she's hallucinating.

Yes, the neurotic builds castles in the air and the psychotic inhabits them .. and I guess the psychiatrist collects the rent LOL.

Apologies to Col if appropriate, although my plea for civility still stands. As CM's father I guess he must know a good deal :-)

Best

Jem

Salem said...

FreeCharlieNow said...
Salem is nuts, plain and simple. There simply isn't any other way to put it.
She claims to be the right hand of Charles Manson, but many people do have contact with him and he has no idea who this person is.
Salem says she owns Charlie's thongs, but has also said that she's thrown them away because of the *bad karma* associated with them. Then she forgets that she tossed them out and will say she's looking at them right now.

She also says that her husband has no idea that she is in *contact* with Charlie, that she even has anything to do with anything even remotely related to Charlie. Then she'll forget that lie and post in here as her husband. Then she'll come back in at a later time and say that if her husband ever found out that she was even on this blog, he'd leave her.

She's been on other discussion forums claiming that she is being stalked by Brad Pitt. Let's see, she's also had restraining orders put against her for harassing and stalking other Manson site owners.

She's claimed that her mother was a close personal friend of Jay SEbring and that she was invited to Cielo the night of the murders. Uh huh.

She also claimed her uncle was in the CIA and that he'd gone to Cielo and stolen the celebrity porn tapes after the murders. lol

She says she's a member of Hells Angels.

Her stories to get better and better.

She seriously isn't playing with a full deck. But hey, it's a free country, she can act looney and people can believe whatever they want.

But now you know why she can only tell just small bits and pieces of each new story she brings to us. Charlie is watching her and he doesn't like her giving out too much info.

10:59 AM, February 05, 2007

YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!
GOODBYE!~

Dok said...

>>Yes, the neurotic builds castles in the air and the psychotic inhabits them .. and I guess the psychiatrist collects the rent LOL.<<

I like this, very appropriate for the present situation. Freecharlienow is right on the money.

angeLos said...

And please, FreeCharlieNow,

do you think CM had not a fair trial and he genuinely has been misunderstood by BB, TW, and Co... that in fact, he did not kill nor ordered anyone to be killed (like CM seem to say sincerly and candidly in the paroles hearings) , that the killers acted on their own will and command and therefore they have to be "punished" ...but CM ? since he did not inflict death to anyone he should be punished less or even not at all, he should be free...of course he was convicted for conspiracy to commit murder(death penalty converted to life) and since he did not kill anyone he should have been punished with less years in jail ? how much...I'm not a Judge, but let's say 15 to 18 years...wich he already did ...37 years in jail ....so he should be free by now...?

FreeCharlieNow said...

angeLos said...
And please, FreeCharlieNow,

do you think CM had not a fair trial and he genuinely has been misunderstood by BB, TW, and Co... that in fact, he did not kill nor ordered anyone to be killed (like CM seem to say sincerly and candidly in the paroles hearings) , that the killers acted on their own will and command and therefore they have to be "punished" ...but CM ? since he did not inflict death to anyone he should be punished less or even not at all, he should be free...of course he was convicted for conspiracy to commit murder(death penalty converted to life) and since he did not kill anyone he should have been punished with less years in jail ? how much...I'm not a Judge, but let's say 15 to 18 years...wich he already did ...37 years in jail ....so he should be free by now...?

2:14 AM, February 06, 2007


I have my own views and opinions regarding Charlie, but I choose not to make them public at this time. But I think my ID speaks for itself.

FreeCharlieNow said...

Salem said...
YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR!
GOODBYE!~

7:27 PM, February 05, 2007

Salem, if only it were lies. I think you and I (as well as many many many MANY others) know that I spoke the truth about your psychotic belief that you are one of Charlies girls.
You are free to live in your narcissistic little world, but please do not expect everyone to believe your tales.

Salem said...

Salem, if only it were lies. I think you and I (as well as many many many MANY others) know that I spoke the truth about your psychotic belief that you are one of Charlies girls.
You are free to live in your narcissistic little world, but please do not expect everyone to believe your tales.

5:04 AM, February 06, 2007
who are you?
If you knew me you WOULD know me.
Im not a Charlies girl! btw
I have told no tales and if you knew charles manson you would know what I HAVE said is the truth.
are you the last one that charlie turned away from seeing?
are u charlene in south carolina , that he says WORRIES THE *HIT OUT OF HIM!
Are you ,are have you helped
with mansonspeakscom?

FreeCharlieNow said...

Salem said...
Salem, if only it were lies. I think you and I (as well as many many many MANY others) know that I spoke the truth about your psychotic belief that you are one of Charlies girls.
You are free to live in your narcissistic little world, but please do not expect everyone to believe your tales.

5:04 AM, February 06, 2007
who are you?
If you knew me you WOULD know me.
Im not a Charlies girl! btw
I have told no tales and if you knew charles manson you would know what I HAVE said is the truth.
are you the last one that charlie turned away from seeing?
are u charlene in south carolina , that he says WORRIES THE *HIT OUT OF HIM!
Are you ,are have you helped
with mansonspeakscom?

11:23 AM, February 07, 2007

No, I'm not Charlene. I'm a guy so I'm thankful my parents didn't give me a girls name.
I've said all I need to say on this subject.

Salem said...

No, I'm not Charlene. I'm a guy so I'm thankful my parents didn't give me a girls name.
I've said all I need to say on this subject.

11:44 AM, February 07, 2007
of course you don't.
You dont know anymore.
CM is very sick and yes NOW they urge him to go for parole as the politial piggies cant use him to say * hey vote for me and I will keep this badman behind bars* !But guess what, he isnt going for it.
I assume you must be for his release as you think Lynn may get out, but guess what, shes not going for parole either, and if you are the one waiting for her release, well she isnt waiting for you!
So who ever you , you NOT known, are you would be helping.And you would KNOW me.
The PENIAL system wants CM out becuz they dont want to foot medical bills, TRUTH.
www.mansonspeaks.com

angeLos said...

Who is , please, the person pictured on the horse at the beginning of this post ?

Salem said...

freecharlienow
Salem says she owns Charlie's thongs, but has also said that she's thrown them away because of the *bad karma* associated with them. Then she forgets that she tossed them out and will say she's looking at them right now.

no
didnt say that, Uncle *Black Jack* from the HA got the leather thong,( CM had tied a bag of peyote buttons up and used the thong to tie the bag.) and Jack gave it to me years later after the murders.
I do still have half of it, its pretty worn , and NO I do not look at it everyday.
wow
You are a spin doctor.

Salem said...

When Gypsy was married to Kenny Como, she used Jessica cuz he used Jesse James, and she was Jessica James!
:)
mansonspeaks.com