So people ask me to explain legalities and while I am not a lawyer I would play one on TV. So let me help those of you who can't pay $500 an hour and explain.
1- How can something so clearly attorney/client privileged as tapes between a client and an attorney be given to the coppers?
There's nothing more sacred than the attorney/client privilege for a lawyer. You can get sued, disbarred and even arrested for violating this stuff. But here's the deal- it is an absolute. If there is a third party or it is waived once, the privilege is lost. For example, you call your attorney with you neighbor in the room listening. BAM, no privilege. In this case, Tex allowed the tapes to be used for his half assed Christian book. Once Reverend Ray heard them, there goes all privilege. Now he could argue that they were a confession and try the priest/penitent privilege. But 8 hours of confession, that you taped? Not likely- AND they weren't between Rev Ray and Tex either. So for decades it has become possession is 9/10 s of the law- the firm physically owned the tapes. But now the firm is bankrupt and the bankruptcy judge is all like "Hey who wants tapes?" and he expected money but instead got the cops saying "We do!". So Tex's opinions are actually completely irrelevant.
But the idea that there is new shit on there? Doubtful. Why would he bring shit up to lawyers and priests that he isn't being accused of?
2- Why can Orca and Orcette appear at Bruce Davis's Parole hearing?
Well if you read the article Orca is talking through her gills. They can use proxies from victim's relatives to attend but they cannot speak out at the hearing. The lovely Doris Tate fought hard to get the relatives of the victims a voice at these hearings. ORCA and Orcette are abusing this shit. Orcette is all " I am a victim too I had to live through the screams " and then she testifies about the wrong time of day and the wrong direction of Shorty's screams. Orca is all like "Hey Sharon Tate was my older sister?" AND? Bruce never met your fucking sister! It's like accusing him of shit he didn't do by their presences. Guy is fucked enough, thanks for your input.
3- How did Clem aka Adam Gabriel get his retarded ass out of the hoosegow?
The Man wanted something from Clem. They convicted his ass without a body. There was always the fear that Shea might come through the door after a mean ass bender. Then they all look stupid right? So Clem took Bobby's prison advice and said "Hey, Mista, I didn't cut his dumb ass all up you wanna see the body?" And so they agreed to let him out, like in the middle of the night with no one watching.
I am much more curious how he escaped being part of the TLB conspiracy charges- he was there the second night the entire time.
The inbred shall inherit the earth.
20 comments:
Interesting point at the end I have often wondered myself....
How was Clem's participation any different the second night from Susan's???
( with the exception of a dump on the sidewalk or stairs or whatever that she took which he may not have)
Yes, indeed. Same deal with Mary at Hinman, correct?
Think Mary might have been charged though...
not sure have to go back and look but thought she gave testimony at some point to get out of any Hinman charges..
I could be wrong about this... too lazy to go check lol
It isn't the same as Mary. Mary was charged in Hinman's murder and given immunity to testify against the others.
Hi St. Circumstance, you're right, Clem's participation the second night wasn't any different than Susan's. The difference between them has to do with the first night. Susan was involved in the murders at Cielo while Clem was not, so it's connected there somehow...but i don't know.
Hi Marliese :)
Hope your very well...
Great Irony that EVERYONE thought Clem was the biggest idiot...
indeed even the judge spared him a death sentence-" Becuase he was too stupid to act or think on his own"...
and yet he was the only one who figured his way out.....
lol crazy like a fix they say...
while Bruce is sweating away the last few years of his life wondering " will they or wont they?"
Adam is sipping Pina Coladas on the beach, playing his guitar in front of admiring women, and sleeping in his own warm bed with whomever he wishes....
Think Bobby or Leslie wish they were that stupid today????
like a fox even ..... lol
Actually when you think about all the talk about Government plants and plans to infiltrate the family ...
then you think about a guy who somehow gets out of a State Hospital and nobody seems to go looking for him, and even though he has done this - he stands in front of cameras at the courthouse all the time... but nobody goes to bring him back....
then you think he is sooo stupid that nobody in the family does anything other than open up to him with arms out ( strange that for a guy they thought was a mental retard- all the girls seemed to love having sex with him- he seemed to be able to function that way o.k.)
then you think he didn't get charged like everyone else...
then you think after a certain amount of time.. they are heralding him as the finest case of rehabilitation they have ever seen, and he is giving up info....
Then you see him leading a great productive life- looking as happy and normal as you and me....
and he is doing better than some of us in many ways lol...
and you do wonder..... how stupid could this guy really have been???
or maybe who were really the fools in the first place???
lol but that stuff cant happen right?????
I sort of started this thought out as a joke but think about something...
Sadie was dying and legless and was deemed a threat...
Leslie and Katie have been incarcerated for 40 years with almost perfect records and they will never get out....
but Clem was no problem for release back in the 80's???
the most mentally unstable of them all- after what ended up being a relatively small amount of time in comparison...
Clem was " too crazy" to be held responsible for his own actions to an extent by the same system that let him go 15 years or so before they were telling crippled women- it was still not safe to let them go home and die...
That is a very strange thing to me
maybe clem wasn't charged with the labianca murders because no one could prove he knew the labianca's were going to be murdered. of course sadie knew what was going to happen to labianca's because she was involved in the tate murders.
I was a little loopy last night :)
I dont really think there is any shady stuff going on ...
but Clem really did catch quite a few breaks along the way when you think about it....
" let him out in the middle of the night with no one watching"
is an interesting way to put it lol
yet true
but it is also true he DID give them something ( Shorty's body) ...
and going to jail for over 10 years is still too much to ask of any
" snitch" or " plant"....
Isn't it??
O.K....
last thing on this subject- I promise...
When Hendrickson and Sanders went to Barker-
Clem was there-
again in front of the cameras and with people from the media- all in the presence/knowledge of cops- and not hiding although he should have been wanted for a few reasons and obviously was not worried about possibly being arrested...
he had escaped from a state hospital and was presumably about to be arrested for his crimes- and yet even while Bruce and Nancy are hiding in the underground systems and pipes below L.A....
he is in front of the cameras smiling playing guitar- and taking people on guided tours of Barker Ranch under the full eye of the local law.... the reason he was in the hospital was for " exposing himself to children"...
yet their is in on the documentary holding babies and young kids with that big smile to the camera...
It just seems like he breezed through this whole thing right up to this day...
without a care in the world....
It says here- that is NOT good
And Clem is enjoying himself, playing music with several bands, gigs overseas,seemingly free to come and go as he pleases, etc. I sure hope he appreciates his extraordinarily fortunate turn of events.
I have no problem with Mr Grogan being a productive member of society at this point. He obviously went to great lengths to obscure his past while at the same time performing in public which is remarkable. What I don't get is how he was outed. The best I can tell by reading back, it was by a guy in Iceland with a Manson web site who left this mortal coil and took the site with him. Can someone explain this further?
someone may be more help than this-
but what I know is that he was shown on Manson Family today a few years back. The owner of the site wrote a paragraph saying he debated doing it- but then did it anyway....
I went to the Rythmtown Jive site ( the band he was in) and saw pictures of him and the band...
there were also pics of him and the band with bob weir and Steve miller..
a few days later Grogan/Gabriel's pictures were gone from the bands website....
today it is hard to find any images or information on the assumed name he was using...
not sure if he changed it again, or if he is still in the band...
I have also read that when he joined the band - not all of them were in agreement over it and a couple of people quit....
That is all I know on this subject
Clem exposed himself to kids
Clem was put in a Mental hospital and escaped
Clem threatened many people and gloated and smirked/smiled all through the trials and in front of grieving families
Clem helped to murder an innocent man who was defenseless and remember... Clem was at the ranch before the family... in his own words in one of his parole hearings... " He and Shorty were friends"...
Just some things to think about when smiling about the thought of good ole Clem hanging with the stars...
But I still think its amazing that it turned out that way...
He is living the life Charlie and Bobby always wanted and he was supposed to be the idiot....
Well, if you take the notion that VB's case was based on a bogus narrative by Susan Atkins, it could be that any attempt to try to bring Clem into the picture would have too damaging to that story. The fact that VB tried to paint him as a mental retard when clearly he is not basically means that VB wanted him nowhere near this trial. Note that he was not too retarded to put on trial after VB got his convictions for the others.
Susan Atkins implicated herself in the LaBianca murders.
The "idiot" Grogan didn't.
The only evidence Grogan was involved was Linda Kasabians word.
With nothing to corroborate her testimony could not be used at trial.
The law says you can't be convicted on the testimony of a co-conspirator alone......and that's all they had.
Grogan skates.
How he got out in '85?
Maybe he revealed more than we'll ever know.
ST. Circumstance said...
Interesting point at the end I have often wondered myself....
How was Clem's participation any different the second night from Susan's???
Independent corroboration. In her interviews and grand jury testimony, Susan put herself there and Linda confirmed this. But Clem never did. In fact, in "Helter Skelter", Bugliosi makes a point of saying that when Clem testified at the trial, he made sure he never implicated himself on the night the troupe left for the LaBianca's.
So basically, there's no corroboration to link Clem to the LaBianca conspiracy. He can't be convicted on the uncorroborated words of an accomplice, rather like Tex, Bill Vance and Larry Bailey with Shorty.
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