The Usual Suspects

DORGAN, Joseph Thomas, LA778 843D, CII 2 945 008 Male Caucasian, DOB 8-24-44, 5-11, 150, brown/blue . Subject has an arrest record for 10851 V.C. (DWOC); 11910. H.& S (Possession of Dangerous Drugs) and a conviction in July, 1968, of 487.3 P.C. (GTA). He is Suzan Struthers's fiance and one of the individuals who discovered Mr. LaBianca's body. Investigation disclosed that Mrs. LaBianca did not approve of Suzan's relationship with Dorgan. A polygraph examination was administered by England, S.I.D., on August 14, 1969, tape No.32233. The examination proved negativ3, even though he admittedly smoked marijuana two hours prior to the examination. The subject's prints were taken for elimination.

STRUTHERS, Suzan, aka Suzan Rae (no criminal record) Female Caucasian, DOB 2-27-48, 5-6, 130, brown/blue. Subject has had many disagreements with the victims over her relationship with Joseph Dorgan. She was a suspect in the fraudulent use of a credit card in January, 1968 (DR 68-429642) , involving Dorgan. Sgt. McRobbie, Van Nuys Forgery, investigated the case, but criminal prosecution was not sought because Mr. LaBianca made restitution. A polygraph examination was administered by Funk, S.I.D., on August 21, 1969, tape No- 32286. The examination proved negative and her prints were taken for elimination.

STRUTHERS, Frank Lynn, LA 960 851S Male Caucasian, DOB 4-19-54, 5-9, 135, brown/brow. Subject was arrested in May of this year for 602 W.I.C., 10851 V.C., (DWOC), where he was a passenger in a stolen car. Subject was at the crime scene approximately two hours before the bodies were discovered. A polygraph examination was administered by Sgt. Howe, S.I.D., on August 14, 1969, tape No.32234. The examination proved negative and his prints were obtained for elimination.

O'BRIEN, Orval Alan, LA 972 485 Male Caucasian, DOB 6-29-55, 5-6, 115, red/blue. Subject is an acquaintance of Frank Struthers, Jr., and in the past has expressed animosity towards the LaBianca's. Interviewed and eliminated August 14, 1969, because of his detention at Sylmar Juvenile Hall during the commission of the crime.

NEGRINI, Gian-Carlo, LA 960 849N Male Caucasian, DOll 12-19-54, 5-6, 110 brown/blue. Subject is an acquaintance of Frank Struthers, Jr., and in the past has expressed animosity towards the LaBianca's. He was interviewed and eliminated August 14, 1969, because of his detention at Sylmar Juvenile Hall during the commission of the crime.

NEGRINI, Vittoria , LA 96.4 628N Male Caucasian, DOD 8-8-53,6-1, 165, brown/blue. Subject is an acquaintance of Frank Struthers, Jr., and in the past has expressed animosity towards the LaDiancas. He was interviewed August 19, 1969, and eliminated through investigation. He was printed for elimination purposes.

POSELLA, Leonard, LA 189 324P, CII 973193 1-1ale Caucasian, DOB 8-26-34,5-11, 185, brown/brown. *Felony Warrant No. A05 6027, bench warrant for 4390 B & P (Forged Prescription) issued,6-2-69, State Narcotic investigators handling. Subject has resided with his mother, Julia Posella, at 3267 Waverly Drive. 1 This residence is directly east of the LaBianca residence. He has had mental problems in the past and claims he blacks out for periods of time and is not responsible for his actions. He has threatened his ex wife with a knife and has stated that he will cut her head off. He has been convicted of 245 p.C., ADW, and has many Drunk arrests. He is currently being sought on the felony warrant for Forgery of a Prescription, and investigators have been unable to locate him. No make on fingerprints; but need palm prints for elimination.

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The above is taken from the LaBianca murder investigation report. Reading it again for shits and giggles I was struck by ...well everyone's been arrested. Credit Card fraud for Suzan, Car Theft for Frank, Drug Possession for Dorgan, friends in Juvie. Embezzlement for pops. It does beg the question- is that a lot of criminality or is it just me? I mean I don't know that many criminals and I know a ton of people.

It feels like there is something here, but then again it is hard to form a theory.

One would Have To Be High

Four Years ago this month Kyndra Miller tried to threaten the Col on behalf of Steve Clem Grogan, otherwise known as Adam Gabriel of the band Rhythmtown Jive.

She now tries to protect Medical Marijuana out of San Francisco. Click HERE to laugh.

If anyone is thinking about retaining Ms. Miller you should read her letters to me. In them she claimed that Clem was being hurt by me and the dead Bret and that his reputation was impugned. Clem cut off a man's head and buried him in a shallow grave. He knew about the Tate murders and did nothing. The night after the Tate murders he drove around and was an uncharged conspirator in the LaBianca murders. He was convicted of exposing himself to children and is on film swinging children around while leering at them.

Kyndra Miller of CannabisBusinessLaw Inc. basically was very upset that a convicted member of the Manson Family who was in a public band that played children's events had been exposed under his real identity.

In my opinion Kyndra Miller is an amoral, disgusting human being, an ambulance chaser and stupid, someone who would attempt a threatening letter with no actual grounds to stand on, and a dumb lawyer. This is only my opinion. I am sure that Clem Grogan/Adam Gabriel would say nice things about her.

What's a Little Disbarment Among Friends?

So people ask me to explain legalities and while I am not a lawyer I would play one on TV. So let me help those of you who can't pay $500 an hour and explain.

1- How can something so clearly attorney/client privileged as tapes between a client and an attorney be given to the coppers?

There's nothing more sacred than the attorney/client privilege for a lawyer. You can get sued, disbarred and even arrested for violating this stuff. But here's the deal- it is an absolute. If there is a third party or it is waived once, the privilege is lost. For example, you call your attorney with you neighbor in the room listening. BAM, no privilege. In this case, Tex allowed the tapes to be used for his half assed Christian book. Once Reverend Ray heard them, there goes all privilege. Now he could argue that they were a confession and try the priest/penitent privilege. But 8 hours of confession, that you taped? Not likely- AND they weren't between Rev Ray and Tex either. So for decades it has become possession is 9/10 s of the law- the firm physically owned the tapes. But now the firm is bankrupt and the bankruptcy judge is all like "Hey who wants tapes?" and he expected money but instead got the cops saying "We do!". So Tex's opinions are actually completely irrelevant.

But the idea that there is new shit on there? Doubtful. Why would he bring shit up to lawyers and priests that he isn't being accused of?

2- Why can Orca and Orcette appear at Bruce Davis's Parole hearing?

Well if you read the article Orca is talking through her gills. They can use proxies from victim's relatives to attend but they cannot speak out at the hearing. The lovely Doris Tate fought hard to get the relatives of the victims a voice at these hearings. ORCA and Orcette are abusing this shit. Orcette is all " I am a victim too I had to live through the screams " and then she testifies about the wrong time of day and the wrong direction of Shorty's screams. Orca is all like "Hey Sharon Tate was my older sister?" AND? Bruce never met your fucking sister! It's like accusing him of shit he didn't do by their presences. Guy is fucked enough, thanks for your input.

3- How did Clem aka Adam Gabriel get his retarded ass out of the hoosegow?

The Man wanted something from Clem. They convicted his ass without a body. There was always the fear that Shea might come through the door after a mean ass bender. Then they all look stupid right? So Clem took Bobby's prison advice and said "Hey, Mista, I didn't cut his dumb ass all up you wanna see the body?" And so they agreed to let him out, like in the middle of the night with no one watching.

I am much more curious how he escaped being part of the TLB conspiracy charges- he was there the second night the entire time.

The inbred shall inherit the earth.

Except that it is all wrong, Well Done!

Charles Manson gang linked to death of man found with wrists slashed in supposed suicide in 1960s London

• Suspicions that Joel Pugh’s death in west London could have been ordered by evil mass killer Manson
• U.S. detectives stumble on a treasure trove of new clues that could solve 43-year-old mystery
• Los Angeles police handed cassettes of conversations between one of Manson’s most fervent followers and his lawyer

By David Gardner

PUBLISHED: 04:35 EST, 1 June 2012 | UPDATED: 05:19 EST, 1 June 2012

New evidence being investigated by police in Los Angeles may link the apparent suicide of a man in London to the notorious Charles Manson murder family.

There has been a lingering suspicion that 29-year-old Joel Pugh’s death in West London’s Talgarth Hotel in December 1969 could have been a hit ordered by one of history’s most evil mass killers.

Now detectives believe they have stumbled on a treasure trove of new clues that could shed more light on the 43-year-old mystery.

New link: Sandra Good with Joel Pugh (pictured in 1969) who was found dead at the Talgarth Hotel in West London amid suspicions he was murdered at the order of cult leader Charles Manson - Sandra was a member of Manson's 'Family'

A US Bankruptcy Court in Texas this week granted a request by Los Angeles Police to review eight cassette tapes containing hours of conversation between Charles ‘Tex’ Watson – one of Manson’s most fervent followers – and his lawyer.

The recordings represent the first new clues in the case in decades and experts believe they could yield evidence supporting Manson’s boasts that his sick family killing spree claimed more than the nine known victims.

‘Manson told one of his cellmates his followers committed as many as 35 murders,’ said Stephen Kay, who prosecuted the cult leader.

Mr Pugh’s death was ruled as a suicide by the British authorities, who said the young American boyfriend of Manson devotee Sandra Good had been depressed.

Crazed: Charles Manson (left) last year ahead of a parole hearing in California and in 1970 (right) taken shortly after he was convicted of conspiring to murder seven people

But Mr Kay is convinced he was murdered by a Manson follower. The victim was found naked except for a sheet with his throat slit and his wrist slashed.

‘Manson despised him – and people who Manson hated ended up dead,’ added Mr Kay.

Nobody knows yet what’s on the tapes, but discovering their existence was enough for Los Angeles detectives to re-open the case.

Officers believe Watson ‘may have discussed additional unsolved murders committed by followers of Charles Manson,’ according to a letter sent to the US Justice Department by Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck.

‘Do we expect to find something in the recordings? We just don't know,' said LAPD Commander Andrew Smith. ‘But we're going to check just like any good investigator would.’

Tragic victim: Pregnant actress Sharon Tate who died August, 1969, was murdered by Charles Manson and his cult followers

Police also suspect more bodies of Manson family victims may have been buried under their one-time hideout at the Barker Ranch in Death Valley, one of the world’s hottest places.

The serial killer and five members of his so-called ‘Family’ are serving life terms for the 1969 murders of nine people, including the pregnant Sharon Tate, wife of film director Roman Polanski.

Now 74, Manson is imprisoned in a California where he has had a swastika carved crudely into his forehead.

Retired Los Angeles police sergeant Paul Whiteley, who investigated the Manson-ordered slaying of musician Gary Hinman in 1969, says: ‘I’m almost certain Joel Pugh was murdered in England by a Manson Family member called Bruce Davis.

‘We know he was in London at the same time and we heard from an informant that The Family had struck in Britain, but we were never able to get Scotland Yard interested in the case. I spoke to them and they just wouldn’t listen.

‘We were, frankly, amazed the police in England had decided it was a suicide and refused even to consider foul play.'

Bad Timg For Bruce

Police: Jack Pursel told Charles Manson disciple about murders 20 years ago

By JEFF REINITZ, jeff.reinitz@wcfcourier.com | Posted: Sunday, June 10, 2012 9:45 am | (0) Comments

Jack Pursel addresses the court after pleading guilty to two counts of first-degree murder at the Black Hawk County Court House in Waterloo, Iowa Thursday, June 7, 2012. (TIFFANY RUSHING / Courier Staff Photographer)

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Related Stories

• UPDATE: Man who admits to 2 murders 31 years ago pleads guilty; sentenced to life in prison

WATERLOO, Iowa --- Twenty years before he showed up at the Waterloo Police Department to admit to an unsolved 1981 double slaying, Jack Wendell Pursel confessed his crime to a member of the "family" of convicted mass murderer Charles Manson.

Pursel, a 66-year-old retired truck driver from California, pleaded guilty Thursday to two counts of murder in the torture deaths of Robert and Goldie Huntbach. The plea came about a month after he confessed to investigators in May.

But, even though Pursel didn't fight the criminal charges, detectives had to do their legwork to make sure they had the right man and to ensure they could get a conviction had he decided to take the case to trial.

Investigators pored over old reports and records to make sure details Pursel remembered were things only the killer would know. They traveled to California to visit Pursel's old haunts.

And they met with a former member of Charles Manson's cult, Bruce Davis, who is serving life in prison for taking part in two murders on Manson's orders.

In 1969, Davis and others killed musician Gary Hinman and ranch hand Donald Shea. Shea was suspected of being a police informer following the Tate-LaBianca murders, and Manson family members killed Hinman as they tortured him in an attempt to get him to sign over property.

Pursel met Davis while Pursel was serving time for a sex crime in California, where he fled following the Huntbach slayings.

Active in ministry in prison, Davis had preached to Pursel, police said.

"I think Davis may have been the person who brought him to Christ," said Investigator Robert Duncan with the Waterloo Police Department.

Pursel had told Davis about the killings in the 1990s, a fact that Pursel disclosed when he confessed to Waterloo police in May.

Part of the Waterloo detectives' task was to confirm this with Davis.

Davis first denied any such conversation when reached by phone, Duncan said. But then officers traveled to talk with him in person at the California Men's Colony at San Luis Obispo.

The former Manson Family member was polite but reserved, Duncan said.

"He was cordial with us," Duncan said.

Davis said he had lied on the phone and admitted Pursel had told him about the murders, but he didn't add much detail, Duncan said. Davis told the detectives he was "shocked" by Pursel's admission, and he talked of his own plans to continue ministering if he is ever granted parole.

Waterloo police also found the South Gate apartment where Pursel had lived for several years before deciding to turn himself in for the Iowa murders. It was cleaned out --- he had sold all his possessions and put the money in a bank account that was turned over to authorities for restitution this week.

Neighbors remembered Pursel but said they had little interaction with him, Duncan said. A Los Angeles-area officer recalled visiting Pursel's apartment a number of years earlier to verify his sex offender registration. Pursel was rude and cursed at him, the officer remembered.

Authorities said Pursel never lived in Waterloo but knew the Huntbachs through a relative. He took a bus to Waterloo in January 1981 as part of a plan to rob the elderly couple while he was on the run from the California sex charge. He stayed at a hotel and later recounted to police how there had been a grocery store across the street. The house was later demolished for a highway project.

After ransacking the home and killing the two --- a crime which netted about $6,000, according to prosecutors --- he flew out of Waterloo on a plane headed for Chicago.

Not long after that, Pursel was detained while hitchhiking in Wyoming and sent back to California to serve time for oral copulation with a minor.

Waterloo police had considered Pursel a suspect early in the murder investigation, but they never had enough evidence to charge him. A Los Angeles County homicide detective interviewed him in prison, and two Waterloo investigators visited him behind bars in 1983. Both times, Pursel asked for an attorney, and questioning ended.

Duncan said he was impressed at the amount of effort earlier investigators had put into the case, which generated regular work for at least 15 years after the crime.

The case file surpassed 100 pages. It was the days before DNA evidence, but officers had fumed the entire Huntbach home to search for fingerprints. Pursel would later tell police he used gloves. Police even used hypnosis in an attempt to get a witness to recall the exact words a suspect had used in a conversation, Duncan said.

When Pursel finally turned himself in in May, police talked with him for about two days, keeping him in a downtown hotel overnight.

He told police the number of gunshots and the locations of the fatal wounds, and remembered the color of a cattle prod used for torture, Duncan said.

These and other details were checked against investigative records, and officers questioned family members and even reviewed Courier archives to make sure those specifics hadn't been released to the public in earlier accounts.

As with his plea in the courtroom, Pursel's police interview often strayed into religion.

On the second day, when police told him they had enough to arrest him, Pursel said he was finished.

"I don't think he wanted to talk about the torture he had done," Duncan said.

Pursel was sentenced to two concurrent life prison sentences without the possibility of parole.

Will He Try to Blame Bill Nelson like LVH?

Parole hearing delayed for Manson family member

By LINDA DEUTSCH

The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES — A parole hearing for former Charles Manson follower Bruce Davis was postponed at the last minute Wednesday after the inmate reported he was feeling ill.

FILE - This undated file photo provided by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, shows Bruce Davis. Davis, a follower of Charles Manson who has twice had his parole date set and rescinded tries again on Wednesday June 13,2012 to convince a parole board he is ready to be released. (AP Photo/California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, File)

FILE - This undated file photo provided by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, shows Bruce Davis. Davis, a follower of Charles Manson who has twice had his parole date set and rescinded tries again on Wednesday June 13,2012 to convince a parole board he is ready to be released. (AP Photo/California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, File)

Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira said Davis showed up for the hearing in San Luis Obispo but said he didn't feel well.

He was taken to a prison medical clinic in the California Men's Colony and was examined and sent back, but still complained of illness and parole commissioners said it was necessary to postpone.

"I saw him walking around in the hallway and he looked fine," said Sequeira. But he said under the circumstances, the parole panel could not go forward with the hearing. A new date was not immediately set.

Davis' lawyer, Michael Beckman, said he arrived after Davis had been taken away in an ambulance and when he was returned, "He looked deathly pale."

Beckman said he feared Davis might collapse during the hearing and "I wasn't going to take a chance."

Two women who had come to speak out against Davis' parole were upset at the turn of events.

Former Manson Family member Barbara Hoyt, who has become a crusader against the imprisoned cult members, said she traveled 1,000 miles from the Pacific Northwest and missed her dialysis treatments in order to speak on behalf of the family of stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea who was murdered by the Manson cult 40 years ago.

Debra Tate, the sister of murdered actress Sharon Tate, traveled from Los Angeles to appear on behalf of a cousin of murdered musician Gary Hinman. She said she believes Davis is a dangerous person.

"I will be here for the next one," she said in a phone interview. "I'm not going away."

Davis is serving life sentences for the two 1969 slayings, although he was not involved in the infamous murders by Manson followers of actress Sharon Tate and six others in Los Angeles.

A parole board determined in 2010 that he was ready for release but then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reversed the decision citing the heinous nature of the crimes.

Wednesday would have been his 27th parole hearing.

Sequeira said this was to be the first time that representatives of the victims were present. No victim families have come to previous hearings.

Beckman said he had planned to object to allowing Hoyt and Tate to speak against Davis since they had no connection to his case.

Sequeira cited Marcy's Law which allows victim relatives to speak.

"They're not next of kin," Beckman said. "That's not what Marcy's Law is about, to bring in hired victims' rights advocates."

Nevertheless, he said Davis was not put off by their presence.

"I told him they were here and he wanted to go ahead. But I couldn't take the chance. "

Beckman has portrayed Davis as a model prisoner who earned a master's degree in religion and a doctorate in philosophy of religion, became a born-again Christian in prison and ministered to other inmates. He also married a woman he met through the prison ministry and has a grown daughter. They were divorced recently.

But the Los Angeles prosecutor who has argued repeatedly to keep all Manson Family members behind bars has said that Davis, who has been in prison for 40 years, still isn't ready for release.

"We feel he is not fully rehabilitated," Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira said. "He has not shown true remorse or understanding of his crime."

Davis long maintained that he was just a bystander in the killings of Shea and Hinman. But at his last parole hearing in 2010, he acknowledged: "I was as responsible as everyone there."

Should a new parole panel grant Davis a release date, the decision would be just the first step in a process that also requires approval by Gov. Jerry Brown and other parole board members.

The only other Manson family member convicted of murder to be paroled was Steve Grogan. He was released in 1985 after leading authorities to the site where Shea's body was buried.

Manson follower Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme was released from federal prison in 2009 after serving time for the attempted assassination of President Gerald Ford.

Manson and two of his followers, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel, remain in prison for life in the Tate killings. Their co-defendant, Susan Atkins, died in prison last year. Another Manson follower, Robert Beausoleil also is imprisoned for the Hinman killing.

The Computer Says No

Charles Manson follower Bruce Davis seeks parole after 40 years

By

Crimesider Staff

Bruce Davis

(Credit: File, AP Photo/California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation)

(CBS/AP) LOS ANGELES - Former Charles Manson follower Bruce Davis, who was on the brink of release from prison two years ago before then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger intervened, goes before another parole board panel Wednesday.

Davis is serving life sentences for two 1969 slayings, although he was not involved in the infamous 'Manson Family' murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others in Los Angeles. Wednesday's hearing at the California Men's Colony at San Luis Obispo will be his 27th parole hearing.

During his 40 years in prison, Davis earned a master's degree in religion and a doctorate in philosophy of religion, became a born-again Christian and ministered to other inmates. He also married a woman he met through the prison ministry and has a grown daughter.

But the Los Angeles prosecutor who has argued repeatedly to keep all Manson Family members behind bars has said that Davis still isn't ready for release.

"We feel he is not fully rehabilitated," Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira said. "He has not shown true remorse or understanding of his crime."

Davis long maintained that he was just a bystander in the killings of stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea and musician Gary Hinman. But at his last parole hearing in 2010, he acknowledged: "I was as responsible as everyone there."

The state parole board determined that Davis was ready to be released. But Schwarzenegger later reversed the decision, saying the murders were "especially heinous" and arguing that Davis' release would pose an "unreasonable risk of danger to society."

Davis' lawyer, Michael Beckman, said in an interview Tuesday that his client is willing to take responsibility not just for his crimes but for other murderous actions by the Manson Family.

"He says that maybe because he was one of the older members of the group he should have led by example," Beckman said. "He now thinks that If he had said `no' to the Hinman killing, maybe the Tate-La Bianca killings wouldn't have happened."

Should the new parole panel grant Davis a release date, the decision would be just the first step in a process that also requires approval by Gov. Jerry Brown and other parole board members. The process could take five more months.

Davis and his wife recently divorced. If released, the 69-year-old would go to transitional housing in Los Angeles County and says he would try to pursue a career in the ministry.

The only other Manson Family member convicted of murder to be paroled was Steve Grogan. He was released in 1985 after leading authorities to the site where Shea's body was buried.

Manson and two of his followers, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel, remain in prison for life in the Tate killings. Their co-defendant, Susan Atkins, died in prison last year.

Shockingly Bullshit Remains Bullshit

Two men relate to same haunting specter -- Charles Manson
By Miguel Marquez, CNN
updated 1:56 AM EDT, Tue April 24, 2012
Watch this video
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Two men grapple with same heavy burden -- they might both descend from Charles Manson
Cage fighter Jason Freeman says his family never discussed his infamous grandfather
L.A. musician Matthew Roberts learns Manson may have fathered him in a 1967 orgy
Moment of truth with DNA evidence: Are the two bound through the blood of Manson?

Cincinnati (CNN) -- Charles Manson casts a long shadow. No one knows that better than his grandson, Jason Freeman, who is speaking out for the first time about growing up under, what he calls, a "family curse" started by Manson and his so-called "Manson family."

"I'm personally, I'm coming out," says the 6-foot-2 kickboxer and cage fighter. Freeman, whose father killed himself in 1993, is "coming out," he says, because he wants the real Manson family to stop hiding from a name that still has the power to evoke fear.

Today, Freeman wants to understand his roots and himself a bit better, two things denied him as a child. He knew from a young age that Charles Manson was his grandfather, but it never registered till one day in eighth-grade history class, said Freeman. Our teacher " ... was talking about Charles Manson and I'm looking around like, are there people staring at me?"
Charles Manson: The infamous inmate Charles Manson: The infamous inmate
Man: I may be Charles Manson's son

Forbidden from talking about Charles Manson to his school friends lest they tease and taunt him, Freeman always felt different from the other kids. Even behind closed doors and with his own family, talk about Charles Manson was discouraged. He was not permitted to ask his grandmother, Rosalie, about Charles Manson, the man she married in 1955. It was a ghostly elephant roaming through his life.

More than anything, Freeman wants to connect with the father he knew only through an occasional letter or gift. He believes his father, who changed his name to Jay White, purposely stayed away from him, not wanting to tarnish his childhood in the same way his had been. "He just couldn't let it go," reckons Freeman. "He couldn't live it down. He couldn't live down who his father was."

Death on a desolate highway

Jay White, who was cursed with the name Charles Manson Jr., killed himself on June 29, 1993, on a desolate section of highway in Burlington, Colorado, just west of the Kansas state line.

The death certificate offers few clues as to why there and what finally pushed him over the edge. The document indicates it was about 10:15 a.m. when he died from a "self inflicted gunshot wound to the head" at "exit 438 on interstate 70."
Charles Manson\'s grandson, Jason Freeman, provides a DNA sample to determine if another man is also related to Manson.
Charles Manson's grandson, Jason Freeman, provides a DNA sample to determine if another man is also related to Manson.

Freeman, who wrestles, fights and suffers the pain of tattoos in his off-time, makes a living working on oil rigs in western Pennsylvania. He is a classically tough guy. But when it comes to the father he never met and when he thinks of what he went through as a child, he tears up.

When asked what he'd like his father to know, Freeman gets emotional and, fighting back tears, he whispers, "I want him to know ... he missed out on a lot."

Specifically, he wishes his father were there to enjoy his grandchildren and see the life he has built for himself.

"I see my kids, you know, and that's kinda where I get shook up," he says the tears rolling. "I would hate to see them grow up without a father. That's important. Very important."

Freeman wishes he could reverse time and tell his father on the stretch of Interstate 70 back in June of 1993 that whatever he was feeling at the moment would pass and a better life lay ahead.

Another Manson offspring, another search

The desire to know one's father and to understand oneself is the same force, the same primal instinct, driving Matthew Roberts, a 44-year-old Los Angeles musician. Roberts, who was adopted as an infant, sought out his birth parents in 1998.

Through an adoption agency, he found his birth mother; according to Roberts, she was a reclusive and psychologically troubled woman named Terri living in Wisconsin. As they got to know each other, Terri eventually dropped a small bomb on Roberts that set him on a 14-year search for his father.

Terri told him that Charles Manson was his father and that she had met Manson in San Francisco in 1967 at an orgy. He was one of four men there, and she was certain Manson had impregnated her.

Roberts didn't believe her except that he looked shockingly similar to Manson.

He then wrote to Manson in prison, explaining the situation. To Robert's surprise, prisoner B33920 wrote back. Manson, in his frantic style and chicken scratch penmanship, confirmed to Roberts that he was at the 1967 orgy and remembered his mother, Roberts said. He related stories that his mother had told him that only she, or his father, would know. What seemed like fantasy was fast becoming reality.

Roberts twice tried to get a DNA match with genetic material from Charles Manson, but the samples were contaminated.

But says Dr. Michael Baird, chief science officer at DNA Diagnostics Center in Fairfield, Ohio, there is another way to establish the family link. If Matthew Roberts and Jason Freeman are related, they will have an exact copy of Charles Manson's Y chromosome. "The male line is easier to compare," said Baird, "because the Y chromosome stands out so strong. We can get a very good correlation if the two are related.

So curious were both men to once and for all solve the mystery, CNN took the extraordinary step to have both men's DNA taken and the results compared.

A match seemed likely.

Same members of notorious family?

The men seem predisposed to being related. Their lives run along parallel tracks.

Both are drawn to fame and fortune. Roberts is lead singer of a band called New Rising Son. Freeman is a fighter who goes by the name Freebird.

But both men have also had to settle for doing more conventional jobs to pay the bills. Freeman has his oil rig job; Roberts is a DJ at the Blue Zebra Cabaret in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley.

Both men have self-published their own books. Freeman's "Knocking out the Devil" and Roberts' "The First Rays of the New Rising Sun."

But the question remained: Is Charles Manson the common denominator in the lives of these two men?

It took DNA Diagnostic Center 48 hours to resolve a mystery that Roberts chased for 14 years. With both men in the same room, Baird told the men what they found.

"We did a battery of DNA tests. We studied your DNA along several points, and we have concluded you do not share a common biological ancestry."

The news dropped on the room like a fact etched in lead. Jason Freeman exclaimed "holy cow." Freeman hoped to gain an uncle and perhaps a bit more insight into his family and his father's life.

Matthew Roberts was visibly shaken as though he had just been robbed. Roberts was upset.

"Now there's no chance of knowing who my father is," said Roberts. "That's the only lead I had, so now I have no chance of meeting or knowing my biological father."

Most people would be overjoyed to discover that Charles Manson wasn't related to them, but Roberts now feels his 14-year search for a father has ended in a cul de sac, without definition and not sure where to go next.

Such is the power of wanting to know where we come from and trying to make sense of our present lives by knowing our past. For both men, the search continues.

Tex's Babblings To be Heard By Overworked Cops

Judge declines to reverse order giving Manson follower tapes to police

By Michael Martinez and Michael Cary, CNN

updated 9:32 PM EDT, Wed June 13, 2012

Charles "Tex" Watson.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• A bankruptcy judge rejects a request by Charles "Tex" Watson
• Watson wanted police to only listen to his personal tapes, not take possession of them
• Los Angeles police believe the tapes might have clues about unsolved killings
• In a letter to CNN, Watson says "there are no unsolved murder committed by the Manson Family"

(CNN) -- A federal bankruptcy judge in Texas on Wednesday rejected a request by imprisoned Charles Manson follower Charles D. "Tex" Watson not to turn over personal tape recordings to Los Angeles police.

Police want decades-old recordings between Watson and his attorney because authorities believe the tapes might provide new clues about unsolved killings involving followers of Manson, according to court documents.

Watson asked the judge to allow police to listen to all recordings in the presence of a court trustee or other designate but not take possession of them as the judge earlier ordered. The judge declined Watson's request to reconsider that order.

Parole hearing for Manson follower postponed

Manson tapes shed light on cold cases?

"To the extent Watson seeks a remedy regarding the LAPD's use of the recordings, or to prevent their release to the media, such matters are governed by nonbankruptcy law and can be addressed to a court of competent jurisdiction," Chief U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Brenda T. Rhoades wrote in her ruling.

In the meantime, Los Angeles police plan to pick up the tapes on Friday, spokesman Cmdr. Andrew Smith told CNN.

Photos: Charles Manson throughout the years

In a new letter to CNN, Watson asserted that "there are no unsolved murders committed by the Manson Family."

The tapes are about eight hours of recordings between Watson and his attorney from 1969, Bill Boyd of McKinney, Texas, whose law firm is now a debtor in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the same state, court papers said.

According to court documents, Watson waived his attorney-client privilege to the tapes in 1976, and his attorney received partial payment for his legal fees when he gave a copy of the tapes to Chaplain Raymond G. Hoekstra, who subsequently wrote a book, "Will You Die for Me: The Man Who Killed for Charles Manson Tells His Own Story."

Watson wrote a June 5 letter to CNN: "There is nothing new on the tapes that was excluded from my book 'Will You Die For Me?' The book was co-authored to show delicate consideration when sharing the graphic details of the crime in order to show respect towards the families of the victims."

Watson, Manson and three others -- Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houten -- were convicted of murder and other charges in a two-night rampage that left pregnant actress Sharon Tate and seven others dead, including Leno and Rosemary LaBianca.

The enduring fascination of the Sharon Tate murder

The gruesome killings were chronicled in the best-seller "Helter Skelter," and in Wednesday's court ruling, the judge notes that "Watson expresses concern that the contents of the recordings may be hurtful to the families of his victims in the Tate-LaBianca murders."

In 2008, Watson wrote CNN that he was aware of no bodies buried in a remote Death Valley, California, site called Barker Ranch, the hideout for Manson and his family, when CNN did a report about a corpse-sniffing dog visiting the site.

In court filings last week, Watson requested "that the Tapes not be turned over to the LAPD, because they are not a creditor to my late attorney Bill Boyd, God rest his soul" and "because repercussions of the motion have not been fully considered by all parties concerned."

Added Watson in court documents: "... this case is high notoriety, with much media attention. For this reason, special consideration should be made with who takes possession of The Tapes, so they will not be misused for purposes unintended by the court and that could be hurtful to the families of the victims."

Watson, 66, was convicted of seven counts of first-degree murder and was denied parole for the 16th time in November. He will be considered again in 2016, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

Charles Manson denied parole, with next parole hearing set for 2027

The Problem of Bruce

Bruce Davis represents a unique situation among the Family murderers constantly vying for parole. He was involved in the murder of Hinman and Shea. He was part of the TLB conspiracy and cover-up although he was never tried for it. And thanks primarily to the Bug's novel it is alleged that he might have committed more murders running into the double digits. Finally, reading Statman or just opening one's eyes. his conversion to Prison Ministry seems at best grossly insincere.

See but here is the thing- Bug could allege anything about Bruce in that novel. He could say maybe the guy assraped 52 Mexican children. Because as a disbarred attorney from Hawthorne, I know that Bruce's only recourse would be to sue for damage to reputation. And shockingly, convicted murderers are not seen as having reputations that can be damaged. How about that?

So Bug doesn't win his election, cranks out with Gentry his novel and decades later the uneducated read it and believe his every word. Remember even HE doesn't believe it any more- he was okay with Susan getting out of jail to die. It did what he wanted it to do- make him rich and famous.

So again, remember the LAW. The LAW says that these death penalty convictions were reduced to LIFE with the possibility of parole. No parole options didn't come around for another 9 years.

So the JOB of the parole board is to determine if the inmate is suitable for parole. Does he have a job? Does he have people to watch out for him? Is he likely to do bad shit again.

That's all they do. They do not  decide if his Christianity is real. They don't look at the footage of him stoned out of his mind when he and Nancy came out of the storm drain. They don't decide if maybe he committed other murders he hasn't been charged with.

And so, rightly, every time for like years now, they decide that he's doing pretty good. Because he has a wife, support teams, and so much arthritis it would be hard to wield a knife.

But then he doesn't get out. Last time because the Terminator didn't want him out.

Why? Is it legal? Well it is legal just barely, because the governor does have that option. But the main reason he doesn't get out is fear- fear of being the asshole who let a Manson Family member out. It's not Hoyt's lies, Orca's presence, or Bug's skillful prosecution- it's fear. Clem was released in the middle of the night and no elected official was involved. Lucky fucker. But Sadie was a one legged gimp who wanted to die in a real bed and all the Hillbilly lawyering of Whitehouse didn't succeed.

Bruce will likely get parole again, or at worst a one year denial.

But he's gonna die in prison.

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Now conversely, what he could do is cut a deal for one of the other possible murders. "Here's what I'll do- you approve my parole and I'll admit to killing the two Scientologists. Hell I will blame Sadie too, bitch is dead, fuck her. I get immunity and release- you get to announce that you were a genius who solved a 40 year old crime? Deal?" I think someone would take that.

Only problem with that is that it blows apart his carefully scripted decades long facade.

Guy is screwed.

Robin's Imaginary Friend Patti

Yeah yeah I've been away again. The radiation is over in two weeks. I'll try to care more about this case after that, okay? Besides I don't think I've missed much right? BUG didn't shoot himself and leave a note screaming that Junior's real father was the milkman and that Charlie couldn't really stop watches just by looking at them, right?

So Robin Olsen tried to attack the brilliant Statman book, and failed as all evil doers must fail. Her homophobia and delusions did not carry the day.

I am pretty sure that Danielle in the comments is really Robin. She writes a certain way. Piece of shit cow even started trying to write bad reviews of the book over at Amazon. Ignorance sounds the same no matter what you call yourself. Bitch can't help it.

Danielle in the comments writes-

Danielle said...

It's interesting how people hide behind phrases such as "it's just my opinion" ... the newspapers that printed salacious material about the Cielo murder victims probably tried to justify their actions with the same cop-out when they printed crap about Sharon being into orgies etc.

Marliese, I respect that you don't want to answer my hypothetical but this proves my point.

Did Debra choose to have her life unravel publicly when her sister and nephew were slaughtered? Or when her parents retreated into grief, leaving young sisters to deal with the unimaginable trauma in their own ways?

Her family had the misfortune of not only having a loved one murdered in a cruel and heinous manner, but having the entire ordeal played out in public.

And yet you and others judge and condemn on a forum that calls one of those sisters revolting names that would make her parents turn in their graves, and provides details of the other sisters' funeral arrangements (Patti's) alongside pictures of a naked woman giving oral sex. Classy.

You participate in such a forum and pass judgment on someone you admittedly don't know now and didn't know back then, while simultaneously being "offended" that your own credentials in grief and suffering are called into question?

I'm sure you'll find ways to rationalize this.

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Sigh. Robin, you can only keep provoking for so long before Karma smacks you on that huge ass and you go down hard, a victim of your own stupidity. But let's respond because I have a brain, I am the Col and The Wizard of Speed and Time and I know my shit.

I'll be in blue.

Danielle said...
It's interesting how people hide behind phrases such as "it's just my opinion" ... the newspapers that printed salacious material about the Cielo murder victims probably tried to justify their actions with the same cop-out when they printed crap about Sharon being into orgies etc. Actually you cannot point to a single newspaper that said it was just their opinion, Moron. They may have reported OTHER PEOPLE'S reports and opinions but that is what reporting is, printing what you are told. And the victims WERE into drugs and they WERE into Kinky Sex. Not all of them into both mind you but it isn't like it was just pulled out of the fucking sky.

Marliese, I respect that you don't want to answer my hypothetical but this proves my point.You don't have a point, bitch. You are asking Marliese in an earlier question about what she would do if she had been a victim with no evidence that she ever has been a victim. You don't phrase anything as a hypothetical so your argument is specious and stupid, just like you.

Did Debra choose to have her life unravel publicly when her sister and nephew were slaughtered? Did 17 year old Debra choose to frolic fully nude at Cielo Drive with major drug dealers who were the first suspects of the slaughter of her sister? The Tates couldn't have minded nudity, Sharon did plenty, but did 25 year old Debra do shitty tasteless nudity in order to attract attention by promoting the spread as Dead Sharon's little Sister? Did 30 something Debra try to shut down websites by falsely and illegally claiming she owns Sharon's Likeness? Did 40 Something Debra break into her mother's house looking for expensive jewelery that she wanted badly? Look, what happened to the family in 1969 SUCKED BEYOND COMPARE. Yet Debra Tate ends up DISOWNED and DISINHERITED. If in 1979 you told me she was in daily therapy and making progress I would feel for her. But it is 2012 and Orca lies flagrantly, attacks her own niece and then refuses to bury her father because he hated her. It was 43 years ago- grow the fuck up.
Or when her parents retreated into grief, leaving young sisters to deal with the unimaginable trauma in their own ways?I wonder what the father's trauma was like when he found all those full muff shots of underage Orca with Pic Dawson.


Her family had the misfortune of not only having a loved one murdered in a cruel and heinous manner, but having the entire ordeal played out in public.Life can suck. And you can respond like a classy Doris and a classy Patti or an uncouth, full of shit Orca. And if you go the Orca route, expect people to call you on it.

And yet you and others judge and condemn on a forum that calls one of those sisters revolting names I'll have you know that Orca is a very well liked and grand creaturethat would make her parents turn in their graves,Fuck You You Stupid WHORE Her father cannot turn in any grave because stupid fat whale probably has his ashes in her spare toilet where she talks to him once a week. and provides details of the other sisters' funeral arrangements (Patti's) This was done because Olsen (you) and Orca both lied about what Statman did. Provable and completely LIED. alongside pictures of a naked woman giving oral sex. Classy. You know I truthfully didn't look at that picture at the time- I thought she was taking a dump. I will go find a classy dump picture and use it this time.

You participate in such a forum and pass judgment on someone you admittedly don't know now and didn't know back then, while simultaneously being "offended" that your own credentials in grief and suffering are called into question? Except she didn't do anything of the kind. She wasn't offended, she told you you were wrong. You are.

I'm sure you'll find ways to rationalize this.

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Look I am tired. You want to know what Debra Tate's problem was/is? Ask Jan Brady.

Debra wanted to be Sharon. Sharon was pretty, famous and got all the attention. Debra wasn't close to her beauty, but she showed full bush with the headline "Sharon's Little sister" so that someone might compare her. She wants fame which is why she goes to Leslie's hearings, Lesie who didn't do shit to her family. It isn't that hard to see this, why do people act like it isn't sad but TRUE.
Yes I hate Orca Tate. HATE. Because it is all just a sideshow, number 4,326 in a story with too many sideshows. I want to know why the people at Cielo and Waverly were murdered. That is what this blog is for. MAYBE Debra hanging with Pic and friends means something. Everything else, who cares?? I don't care about a 35 year old porn spread, and I don't care about anything she says because she is a liar who was disowned by her family. This is a sideshow people. We are doing exactly what the Bug wants us to do- ignore our mission.

Back to work.