--- I love that she is worried about Charlie's afterlife
--- She went the full tranny look for this interview- good for her!
--- Voice...does she smoke two packs a day or something?
--- Yup I am certain that Charlie didn't show because he didn't want to become ORCA BAIT!
32 comments:
It really gets to Patty that people assume we do what we do because we "admire" Manson. One of Patty's real-life friends actually asked her if she was disappointed that Charlie did not get out? Patty looked at him and said, "Are you serious?"
we do what we do because the BUG spread an insane lie
Ah, Col, great to have you up and around again. While I have always respected the passion (ferocity?) of your views, as a relative newcomer to the TLB blogs I would respectfully ask you to explain the "insane lie" judgement.
No, I am not a Helter Skelter proponent. But Col, IT WAS written in blood at the crime scene. And Watkins and others DID GIVE the Bug details and ammunition to support it as a possible motive. From a legal standpoint, wouldn't VB have been remiss in not offering HS up as a possible motive? I know you hate the Bug, but VB did not write those words in blood on the fridge. And he didn't hold a gun to the head of Watkins, DeCarlo and others.
I've always thought of Helter Skelter as just a working theory, a tool that the Bug used to get a conviction. Just where is the insanity in that? Where is the lie?
If HS is presented as a fact, then yes, it could be called a lie. But if it is presented as a thesis, a possible motive or contributing factor in the murders, then how can it be a lie. If Manson orchastrated the killings, and with all due respect to AC it is INSANE not to accept that as fact especially given his most recent comment of having put five people in their graves, then only Manson himself will ever know the exact why of it all. And I for one percieve Charlie as so completly delusional I doubt he could tell us the truth even if he wanted to.
Was HS a purposefully contrived fairy tale by VB as you seem to believe, or was it just a working thesis of some merit based on the testimony of several Family pasticipants?
Again, with all due respect, your undeniable and seemingly irrational amount of anger on the subject gives a reader pause to say the least.
I know it is suicide to disagree with you and you have taken me to the woodshed before, but I honestly just don't see how HS qualifies as an "insane lie". A misguided thesis, sure, but certainly an effective one as the killers remain imprisoned 42 years later.
Just my two cents, counter attack if you must.
Leary, he's put more than five people in their graves simply by outliving them... why aren't you offering the other quotes, about not breaking man's law nor Gods' law, and "I've never killed anyone"?
IF Manson orchestrated the killings -- that's a big "IF", then why isn't there a nice, organized, fully functional ATWA movement by now? He's had fifteen some-odd years to brainwash people and make that happen -- yet it hasn't.
Because people will do what people will do, no matter who tells them what to do.
You know, for someone who's been a professional attention-whore for so many years, she is a strangely uncompelling speaker.
AC, what five people did he outlive? Surely he's outlived more than 5 people.
Please clarify.
Charles has buried several members of his biological family, literally -- no funeral homes in the old days in the hills. People buried their dead their ownselves.
"Charles has buried several members of his biological family, literally -- no funeral homes in the old days in the hills. People buried their dead their ownselves."
Lovely. And just who did he bury, pray tell? With a shovel?
And when could he have accomplished this? Since he was busy with his cult during the only time he was out.
Poirot, slow down. Ac is talking about charlie's youth in Appalachia before Uncle Luther went down river.
God bless your ability to spin, AC. I honestly admire your dedication. But seriously, we all have to know who Charlie was referring to as it was prefaced by his claim of being a truly evil person. Really, let's be rationale.
So...Charlie buried several members of his biological family, literally, during his youth in Appalachia before Uncle Luther was sent down the river...with his bare hands and no help, before he was six years old? Was he barefoot too?
His uncle Jessie, for one.
The statement to the psychiatrist has been taken at face value by the media. Charles hasn't any respect for the pseudo-science of psychiatry. And why should he? Psychiatrists have used chemical restraints on him, used experimental drugs without his permission, lied to him, misdiagnosed him, exploited him, even sold his story in a book, for profit.
A psych evaluation is worth the paper it's printed on, and that's it. Psychiatry is one step below phrenology. Psychiatrists endorsed the fallacy that a group of murderers claimed to be "brainwashed" and not in control of themselves, and the ridiculous idea that anyone could be coerced into brutal acts by a guy with a third grade education.
Charles realizes this, and doesn't give a psych exam any credence. He answered facetiously. He's not going to jump through these hoops, debase and humiliate himself, when there is no chance that the parole board will approve him. And why should he? He is a political prisoner who has served more time incarcerated for accessory after the fact than any other American convict.
"Charles realizes this, and doesn't give a psych exam any credence. He answered facetiously."
AC, if Charles answered this facetiously, then why did you go into this song and dance about him burying his family? Starting with Uncle Jessie.
I'm with Marliese...did he use a shovel, or just use dig with his hands like a dog?
I consider ATWA quite productive, thank you very much.
ATWA forever
Christianity has Elmer Gantry, environmentalism has Sandra Good.
Here's my point: people who cloak themselves in religion (in any of it's guises, environmentalism being one) often do so as a means of deflecting attention from their selfish worldly interests.. I think Charles Mansons commitment to the Environment is exactly as deep and pure as Charles Watson's commitment to Christianity.
Oh yeah, happy erf day to all. No go out and celebrate by picking up trash, just as you do on the 9/11 anniversary. Question: why do all commie high holidays involve cleaning up trash?
A/C, I think where you lose steam in your viewpoint is simple. ATWA, yea thats great. I can agree he has no chance at parole, and yes alot of it is political in nature, we have paroled way worse people.
But when you continuously try to claim Charlie is COMPLETLY innocent and his hands are squeaky clean, you lose me in that arguement, by your postings, it show you are intelligent, so how could you possible beleive Charlie is as innocent as a church mouse? Take HS and put that aside, Charlie built his little family and gave it direction, so even if he never said 'go kill people', he still has responsibility for the outcome of the ball he started rolling, dont ya think?? Tex, the stabby guy took to it easily. He wasnt out stabbing folks in Texas, so someone turned that switch on in Cali.
Not that my opinion really matters in all of this, but I'm going to give it anyway.
I have worked in the educational system now for 22 years. I see sociopathic behavior in all ages. From what I can tell, Charlie is just that -- a sociopath. He is definitely very intelligent and is able to find weaknesses in individuals and exploit them.
I have to agree with Vince Bugliosi when he says that each and every one of these killers had it in them to kill. Charlie and his rantings were the catalysts which brought this psychopathic behavior to the surface in them. Susan, Tex, Leslie, Pat -- all psychopaths. Charlie -- sociopath.
That was my Master's Degree and experience speaking...lol
As far as Bugliosi's theory goes...I think it was just that..a theory as Leary7 said. It was wrapped up with a bow and handed to him by a number of various sources either in the family or close to it. He just did what a good attorney would do. He took what information was given him and put it together to present to a jury as part of the reasoning behind these horrific murders.
So, basically, I don't get the Colonel's hate-on for Bugliosi either. He didn't actually fabricate anything back when this case was at trial. He simply used the evidence presented to him.
I do have a question to the Colonel though...do you personally know Mr. Bugliosi to be able to make such harsh judgments against him?
I'm of the school of thought that unless you know someone personally, or unless said individual has done something to personally slight you, then really, we don't have much reason to hate so venomously.
Afternoon wine-inspired thought for the day.
P.S.
To AC...ATWA --- whatever...GREAT!!! support the Earth...let's work on saving it together...but by no means is "Charles" as you call him, an innocent man.
It is disconcerting when someone as intelligent as AC tries to paint Charlie as innocent and misunderstood. We have video, right over on youtube, of Charlie admitting to shooting Bernard Crowe and of tying up Leno. And we have several eyewitness accounts of him being there when Shorty was killed. And there are several videos when Charlie brags of his evilness and killing abilities. You have to guve AC some credit for her zeal and dedication to a friend, but you also have to empathize for her lack of reason. Believing Charlie is innocent is like believing Bob Hope shot JFK. It's just nonsense.
This is exactly why these individuals need to remain behind bars until the days they die.
Even from prison, Charlie's reach is evident right here on this blog. He has supporters and people who are sympathetic to his "plight".
Thank goodness the parole board saw fit to not offer another hearing for the next 15 years. We can only hope that Charlie will have rotted away in prison and shrivelled up and died by this point. Or perhaps another Hare Krishna with a lighter will cross his path.
If after some 40 years, he is still able to influence seemingly intelligent people, I can't think of a better argument for continued life imprisonment for all of them.
Sandy Good == SNL Church Lady
Sanctmonious? Check
Pious? Check
Busybody? Check
Tell everyone how to live their lives? Check
Angry when people refuse to agree? Check
Insane gleam in eyes? Check
Real life outside of belief system pathetic? Check
Odd mannerisms and attire? Check
Substitute Gaia for Jesus and the Church Lady and Sandra Good are the same.
A lot of people need to attach themselves to a cause that is larger than themselves in order to stave off feelings of insignificance. That is I believe the core psychology of Church Ladies of all faiths.
Blipcrotch, how is 9-11 or Earth Day considered "Communist"?
Why do they involve picking up trash? I don't know, perhaps because lazy selfish lowlifes keep insisting on throwing it out the windows of their cars, tossing it into parks, leaving it laying all over the place, instead of recycling it?
Hey Marla
Three self deletions makes it seem like you are that scumbag JimNy and therefore should be blocked.
Sorry Colonel...being a self-confessed computer idiot, I posted the same thing 3 times...
Don't punish me for my own ignorance when it comes to technology...lol
Hello Col Scott sir! hope you are feeling much better. This post where they talk about Manson coming to grips, lol EL oh El he is fucking batshit ! he can't come to grips with concensus reality, he will never admit to anything! he is old, he will never get parole period. I love Debra Tate she is single handed in fighting a crime not exactly fresh in the public mind ,her sister and nephew murdered by shit i would scrape off my shoe. She ( Debra) should now concentrate so that filth like watson, and krenwinkle( my vote for ugliest woman in the California penal system) die in prison ! Debra certainly is human ,not filth like the ones whose parole hearings she must attend !
Oh just thought I would add I love Debras' voice too !
When Johnny Cash played Folsom prison, he was actually a prettier woman in the california penal system than krenwinkle. they say she was training dogs who better, they would take one look at that ugly fucking mug and think she was one of their own. then they would piss on her !
Specially for you AC, since you are genuinely curious:
Meet the Master of Ceremonies for the first Earth Day, 1970, in Philadelphia:
Ira Einhorn
The fact that Earth Day is celebrated on Lenin's Birthday (a major holiday in the old Soviet Union) is a coincidence? I think not. Just like Christianity attached itself to Pagan holidays in it's early days, Earth Day represents the environmental movement as Marxism/Leninism with a badly needed public relations makeover for marketing in the Western countries.
The morphing of 9/11 into a "National Day of Work in the Rice Paddies er I mean Service" is another example of this kind of thing.
The ultimate environmental message
Environmentalism is a perfect front for any repressive statist movement. "For the good of mother earth" can be used to justify any exercise of power and any attack on individual freedom. It is an especially good mask for people who simply hate humanity, like the Unibomber, Ted Kazinski.
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