Wednesday, April 11, 2007

Virginia is for Lovers


Go ahead and read this story from WVEC.com. I'll highlight the part to focus for you and make it easy and shit.

Assembly overrides two Kaine death penalty vetoes; one survives

04/05/2007

By BOB LEWIS / Associated Press

The House and Senate on Wednesday easily overrode two vetoes Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a death penalty foe, had made to three bills that would have expanded capital punishment in Virginia.

A third veto to a bill that would have put accomplices to murder at the same risk for execution as the triggerman fell two votes short of the 27 needed in the Senate to overturn it.

Had the bill become law, it would have marked the widest expansion of the death penalty in a state that already ranks behind only Texas in the number of killers put to death since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976.

The two overridden vetoes mean that bills that prescribe the death penalty for people who kill judges or witnesses to influence the outcome of trials will become law over Kaine's objections.

Kaine, a Roman Catholic who acknowledged a faith-based objection to capital punishment in his election two years ago, said in vetoing the bills that the state already had adequate means to execute killers. Kaine has allowed four executions to proceed since taking office.

"Virginia has the second highest rate of executions in the United States and I just don't believe expanding the death penalty any more is going to be the way to go to provide greater public safety," Kaine told reporters after the one-day legislative session to consider his vetoes and amendments.

In both the House and the Senate, supporters of the measure to subject murders' accomplices to the gallows cited both recent Virginia cases and even the murder spree of Charles Manson's cult in California 38 years ago.

"I hope the governor understands who Charles Manson is and what Charles Manson did," said Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah, sponsor of the House bill that redefines the triggerman rule.

Manson's cult followers went on a grisly rampage that terrorized Los Angeles in 1969, slaughtering seven wealthy people in their homes.

"Charles Manson never hurt a hair on anybody's head by anybody's account, but everybody understands that he was ... the driving factor in those heinous murders," Gilbert said. "Were Charles Manson to exist in Virginia today, he could not be convicted of a capital offense."

The House mustered well more than the 67 votes necessary to override all of Kaine's death penalty vetoes. The triggerman expansion veto was overridden on a 79-21 vote. The judicial murder death penalty bill veto was overridden 82-18; and the witness murder death penalty veto was rejected 83-16.

The Senate also voted to override the judicial and witness murder death penalty vetoes, and it overrode Kaine's veto to a Senate version of those bills. But the triggerman expansion veto was sustained on a 25-14 vote.

In the House and in the Senate, supporters of the witness protection bills cited the case of Brenda Paz, a pregnant 17-year-old who had been a member of the violent MS-13 gang, had entered the witness protection program and planned to testify against her former boyfriend.

"At some point they lured her back to the gang and lured her out to a pretty covered bridge (over) the Shenandoah River where they walked her down the river and brutally stabbed her to death," said Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah and the bill's sponsor.

Okay work with me here- first off by SOME accounts, Charlie harmed the hair near the ears of Gary Hinman when he cut it off and the hair on the top of Shorty Shea's head when he decapitted him. So the idiot congressman is, well an idiot. But his analogy, his very point is wrong.

Charlie was sentenced to death for his part in the CONSPIRACY to commit the Tate-LaBianca murders. Conspiracy laws hold you liable for the crime whether you did it or not. Gilbert is screaming about ACCOMPLICES- it is an entirely different law. So the article is stupid and badly researched, but then the people who are drafting these laws are legally incorrect in their underlying arguments.

And do it goes.... (sign off in honor of the late Kurt Vonnegut, RIP)

117 comments:

catscradle77 said...

RIP Kurt-what a loss.
That whole article made me want to run with scissors,and gave me a hangover headache without the booze.

Heaven said...

Very interesting...

Thanks Col!

Hiya Cats, great to see you here again!

=)

catscradle77 said...

LOL. I think I am here..
I had to come pay my respects to Kurt V. when I saw that he passed.
He wrote one of my favorite books-Cat's Cradle.

ColScott said...

Ice Nine

catscradle77 said...

Perhaps no more pool-pah...busy,busy,busy.

Are there anymore tidbits from the boxes, Colonel?For it would make me smile, feel like a friend passed in a way.

Pristash said...

I wonder if KV is right this very moment thumbing his nose at You Know Who....

60skid said...

R.I.P. Kurt Vonnegut, You will be missed.

catscradle77 said...

Good to see you here to 60's!!!

60skid said...

Thanks Cats, great to see you here too.

catscradle77 said...

And I re-read that article, and it made even less sense than it did the first time. I keep going back to it, hoping somehow it loses its, uh, scrambly quality.

Dok said...

cat, I thought about you when I heard Kurt Vonnegut passed away.I guessed a long time ago that was where you got your name from. Here's to one of the all time best authors!!

Hiya Heaven & 60's

catscradle77 said...

Dok-thanks-and that picture still makes me think of twister or to yell "Hey you kids get down from there".

And a good day to Pristash as well.

catscradle77 said...

And just because I am in one of those moods:

Remember when:

We all came and joked, talked and got along?

When I thought you asked me how old 60's was and that whole thing?

The troll war and the Colonel and his picture of the guy in the vehicle with the cat in it mouth?

The pulling of Linda's pigtails, and her great defender Monk?

And, one thing has been bothering me, Sharon had eight stab wounds to her back, but yet there is no account of how they got there that I can find. Does anyone have any clue on these? (and 60's you know I am not trying to be upsetting). But we have Sadie in accounts holding her arms, so how did she get stabbed in the back?

Heaven said...

Hiya Dok!

Great to see you! How've you been?

=)

Heaven said...

Cats,

The story is that Tex delivered those wounds to her back as he ran back and forth between her and Jay...

The position Sharon was found in the next morning is probably not the position she died in...

catscradle77 said...

Thanks Heaven.

Is this said by any of them anywhere? Or is this just one of those givens?

The blood tells she was moved, but I am just wondering if anyone states this somewhere that I missed. (I know, expect someone to tell somewhat close to a truth, and yes, my world is a Utopia.)

Heaven said...

Yeah, Tex admits to stabbing all of them after they were dead in his parole hearings..

I guess he just wanted to make SURE they were dead...

Forensics can tell which wounds were done while the victim was still alive and which ones were done after they were dead..

Susan said too that when she went over to Sharon to dip the towel in her blood, she looked a lot more cut up then when she'd last seen her...

catscradle77 said...

Okay, thanks again :)
Do you by chance know what year? All I remember is mayber the DA including such a thing in his closing etc., but I can't seem to find where Tex actually admits it in any form...and I am sleepy so that could explain it.

Heaven said...

I'll go through my parole transcripts and see if I can find which year it was that he admits to it...

In the meantime, if you have Ed Sanders book The Family, it's all stated in there...

In the 2002 updated version, it's on page 216..

After he killed Sharon, he told Patricia and Susan to get out..
While they were outside searching for Linda, Tex ran around to each of the victims stabbing them all a few more times..

Then he went outside and did the same to Voyteck and Abigail.

That's when he told Susan to go back inside and write something..

It's also in Greg Kings book, page 210

But I'll look around the parole transcripts and see what I can find for ya...

catscradle77 said...

Cool, thanks. I am just assuming that the Sanders and King are stated from Sanders and King's point of view or the "Official" version and I am just wondering if Tex said so somewhere, or any of the other killers that were there.

I looked thru the hearings I have, and it seems to not come from the mouth of Tex..which isn't surprising, but with all the lying and tale twisting that was going on, I am just wondering who stated this, or assumed this off of perhaps false statements.

Thanks!

Heaven said...

You can't really go by anything they said in early hearings anyway...

When Tex was on trial, he said he only stabbed one person. But has since admitted he stabbed everyone except Parent..

In 2001 Debra Tate spoke out at Watsons' parole hearing and you can see on page 85 where Debra says he ran from victim to victim, stabbing them again and again to insure they were dead and when Tex had his chance to correct any errors in what she said, he didn't...

The only thing Tex corrected was his previous arrest records.

Heaven said...
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catscradle77 said...

Thank you. Couldn't find it. I don't know though, if I were Tex (And today I am RuthAnn, so I can't be Tex)I wouldn't argue or try and correct anything a victim's family member said. I am not dismissing the fact that he could have done this, I am just trying to find out if he said it.

catscradle77 said...

Did Tex's story ever flop around like the others?

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catscradle77 said...

Well, if you think you can't rely on what was said in early hearings, save your time. I am just curious as to what happened etc.
And if certain things perhaps were done when and if people went back to the crime scene.

So, save your time. I am sure I will ask another one of these questions soon...lol..thanks Heaven!

Heaven said...

You're welcome...

I know it's out there it's hard to remember exactly which year cause there have been so many..

I have emailed Bret and asked him if he remembers what year it was.. Soon as I find out, I'll let ya know...

=)

Heaven said...

What I meant by you can't go by their early hearings was how each of them minimized their involvement...

Susan claimed that her Grand Jury testimoney was 100% truthful, then she said it wasn't, now she's back to saying it was lol

At his trial, Tex denied having the rope with him, the bolt cutters or that he stabbed more than one person...

Now he admits to all of it...

He's even accepting responsibility for things I don't think he did, like stabbing Leno with the fork..

Patricia is also claiming she did that...

catscradle77 said...

I dont know. That's weird because I don't think the fork would really gain anyone any points.

And perhaps, he knows he isn't going anywhere soon and thinks by claiming he did all this stuff, it may help the others. I don't know-either way, it's utter crap. LOL.

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Heaven said...

I heard back from Bret and he said that it's in Tex's 1983 parole hearing... He also said he thinks it's in one of the videos Col Scott has on YouTube..

He further says it's in the book by Chaplin Ray called God's Prison Gang...

If I can find anything from that book anywhere online, I'll be happy to post it for ya..

Hope that helps!

Thanks Bret

=)

catscradle77 said...

Cool, thanks to you both. Will have to check out the '83 hearing and see what good old Tex says...and my Chaplain Ray when I get home.

I just usually don't pay that much attention to Tex, cuz he makes me sick.

And with the running around stabbing of people Tex was doing, what were Pat and Susan doing during this time?

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catscradle77 said...

Susan also said I believe she didn't see Sharon's face for her hair covered it.

I still am wondering why after the bloody slaughter they witnessed and took part in that Tex would send them outside?? Doesn't make too much sense...

And then for being this killing machine, Tex and everyone, they were pretty calm when approached by Weber.

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catscradle77 said...

Well, as far as Linda goes, Sadie testified Tex drove the first night, and Manson the second. So why was Linda there then?
And then, why would they think Linda wasn't watching and why send them both out? And if Tex was hacking up people, why send Sadie in to write with blood then? And when she went back in, Sadie testified that Sharon was making noises, etc..so she may not have been dead at that point.

Heaven said...

I think the noises may have been just what Susan said, blood flowing into the body out of the heart.

Probably air escaping too.

I personally don't believe that Sharon was still alive when Susan went to her with the towel...

I could be wrong, but based on her wounds, I just don't see how that's possible...

catscradle77 said...

But in order to flow, wouldn't one have to be alive?

catscradle77 said...

Let me rephrase that, in order to make enough noise to be heard, woulding flowing blood coming from the heart have to be pumped out, thus meaning life?

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dok said...

Heaven said:
We can also look it this way too, Tex says it was he and he alone who stabbed Sharon.. He says Patricia and Susan never stabbed her...

So all 16 stab wounds had to have been by his hands. He's the only one who killed her...

>>Do you believe this? I feel, and it's probably because of HS, Susan took part too.

Cat, you know that I'm Ruthann...

7:18 AM, April 13, 2007

Dok said...

...The Troll wars...some dark times for us onions

catscradle77 said...

Okay Dok, I thought today was my day..I shall be Juan Flynn..doing my best to look at suave, grumbling he then told me "Don't you know I am the one who is doing all these killings?"

We are the official onions...lol

Dok said...

Cat said: "I just usually don't pay that much attention to Tex, cuz he makes me sick."

>> You know what really gets me about Tex...most people don't even know who he is and he did most of the killings but they know Charles Manson. If you mention the name "Tex Watson" to most people, they won't have a clue but if you mention Charles Manson, they know. (This is not a show of support for CM just a comment).

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dok said...

Cat said: "Well, as far as Linda goes, Sadie testified Tex drove the first night, and Manson the second. So why was Linda there then?"

>>Because she was raped by VF, duh! LOL

catscradle77 said...

ROFLMAO, and I aint cleaning the pool, Dok...

It is true about Watson too.

I think depending on what I am reading or seeing, my opinion of what possibly could have happened changes, prolly more than Sadie changed her underwear if she ever wore any..and really I dont even wanna go there.

Dok said...

I agree Heaven, it is impossible to get the truth from that group. So much is fishy that it keeps our minds asking "What" and "Why".

It's interesting that, with the Webbers, they could shut the adrenaline off like that. It's all so crazy, maybe it was the drugs.

Dok said...

Don't you think Susan needed an oven mit to catch all that green bread she was making...

60skid said...

Dok said...
Cat said: "Well, as far as Linda goes, Sadie testified Tex drove the first night, and Manson the second. So why was Linda there then?"

>>Because she was raped by VF, duh! LOL


Thats right Dok ,, I had forgot that Duh!!!!


How are you doing I have missed you

Dok said...

I know!! I too have missed you all. This is nice to just banter back and forth like old times.

catscradle77 said...

Dok, I think her swollen sore ski-boot feet took the place of an oven mitt...

Dok said...

Do any of you hear from the Monk?

catscradle77 said...

Yes, just a few days ago. Perhaps he will grace us with his presence.

catscradle77 said...

PLAYING TUG OF WAR WITH LINDA'S PIGTAILS AND KICKING HER.

Dok said...

Ok Cat, this is what you should tell Monk, tell him that we are about to cut Linda's pigtails off and he needs to get over here right away to stop us!

catscradle77 said...

dayum straight, and I know he is here as we all have been..

handing Dok the scissors I was going to run with earlier and tackling Linda as she was hiding in the bushes.

Heaven said...

I hear from Monk quite often...

Hopefully he'll come chat with us soon, I miss all his great input.. And pulling Linda's pigtails!! LOL

Hiya 60skid! Great to see you again...

=)

Dok said...

Heaven, I don't think Sharon was alive when Susan went back. With the stab to the heart she maybe had a minute to live after that. The sounds she heard was the blood that was already in the heart rushing out into the pleural cavity.

Heaven said...

You could very well be right Dok...

I just like to think she was dead by then cause the thought of her laying there suffering really gets to me...

catscradle77 said...

I had to be the medical dumbass but what exactly is the pleural cavity?

Heaven said...

I didn't know either so I Googled it lol

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wnor/thoraxlesson2.htm

Heaven said...

http://mywebpages.comcast.net
/wnor/thoraxlesson2.htm

Try that lol

Dok said...

Sorry guys.

Ya Heaven I have a hard time thinking about what happened to Sharon and the suffering she endured.

Well, I have to run, its been fun hanging out with you guys again. Have a great weekend and I'll catch ya soon.

Big pull on Linda's pigtails to you all!!!

Heaven said...

Take care Dok!!

Talk to you again soon!

=)

60skid said...

Heaven said...
I hear from Monk quite often...

Hopefully he'll come chat with us soon, I miss all his great input.. And pulling Linda's pigtails!! LOL

Hiya 60skid! Great to see you again



Hi Heaven ,Great to see you too!!

Here is to Monk and pulling Linda's pigtails.
Monk get here quick.. I hear talk bout Linda's pigtails getting cut.

agnostic monk said...

hey you guys are all too late, Linda already snipped off her pigtails and fastened them to this really cool vest she and some friends made for me. Guess you'll have to wait until she grows her locks out. snooze ya lose, baby.

: )

Gosh looking at the names in here is like a groovy acid flashback, man! I do miss The Way We Were as Cats described.

: (

Anyway, so how the hell is everyone? the article the Col posted was confusing to me too (but then again it's after 2am here and last call if ya know what I mean) and also creepy when it got to the part about the gang member being lured back in.

Anyway, good to see you all!

Hey, so Cats, I can't recall where exactly but I know I read Tex's description of running back and forth between the bodies that night to make sure there was no chance any of them could survive, making what he called "happiness noises" (shudder) as he did it. Lovely, huh?

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catscradle77 said...

Monk-
Thanks for the visual-all I have in my head now is Tex running around stabbing, singing that theme from the Patridge Family..Come on get Happy...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse...

But excellent to see you Mr. Monk!!!

catscradle77 said...

Singing in my best Patsy voice, to the tune "You Belong to Me":

See the trolling
That comes along
See the bashing
And times gone wrong
Just remember
That all the while
We belong
To the blog....

deadwoodhbo said...

He said .......she said.No one will ever know what really happened that night.Thank You Col for the good post.Has anyone heard from jem?

catscradle77 said...

LOL..maybe then we should fast forward to the next night, or maybe rewind even more to Hinman.

agnostic monk said...

Heaven said...
>>You're right about Tex and the "happiness noises".. I had forgotten he said that...

Hi there Heaven! One can only imagine what Tex means by a "happiness noise" ya know? is it like a sexual grunt? or a childish giggle? or maybe as Cats is saying it's more like a sing-songy thing? I am actually glad that I don't know!

catscradle77 said...

Umm..Tex and a sexual grunt..oh boy it burns...

And any idea where he mentions this, for I will avoid that document.

jempud said...

Still here, Deadwood. Lying doggo, not so easy for a duck. Actually I've been in Patagonia for a little while. Don't ask.

Curiously, 'pata' is a female duck in Spanish ...

As for the extra stab wounds Sharon had on her back, I wonder if Charlie had a bit of fun and games when he went round later ?

Glad the Monk made it - I've been a distant admirer.

Jem

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>And any idea where he mentions this, for I will avoid that document.

I had thought that it was in his book, and I was so pleased with my deep knowledge and scholarly memory that I was going to supply the quote for you. But I went back to Tex's Abounding Love website and it seems I am a dummy, he doesn't mention it in his description of Cielo Drive in that book.

Not sure now.

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>all I have in my head now is Tex running around stabbing, singing that theme from the Patridge Family..Come on get Happy...

ha ha! cats you crazy, lady! I actually love all those partridge family songs in a retro sort of way. maybe now not so much.

catscradle77 said...

I love them too, Monk and now I have Tex with that belladonna stare running and stabbing..to that song.

I know its a horrible thought, but the gurgle still has me..Sadie says Hinman was gurgling and they had to end his life with a pillow. So I am just wondering if in fact, there was life still in Sharon and if so how long. Perhaps long enough for the return visit, I am not sure.

Give me a new visual please...lol

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>>So I am just wondering if in fact, there was life still in Sharon and if so how long. Perhaps long enough for the return visit, I am not sure.

The coroner said the baby boy could have survived for up to 15 minutes or so without oxygen, maybe longer, after Sharon's death. I don't know how long she herself could last after 16 stab wounds including one to the heart. I'm no doctor but I doubt there was any life whatsoever left in her by the time the clean-up crew arrived. But I've wondered about the same questions myself, especially considering how hard some of the others fought even with their wounds.

catscradle77 said...

Voy especially too. And in the age of no cell phones with wires cut, I imagine that there was no real hope once the first crew left.

Sadie testified that she saw a dog in the window. Where were Sharon and Abby's dogs found if Garretson was holed up in the guest house with the Altobelli dogs?

And MOnk, I'm yanking the hair on the vest but it isnt as much fun, any idea when there will be enough hair for pigtails again? LOL

Heaven said...

I don't think Sharon lasted too long with all those wounds.. I'm no doctor either, but I assume a stab wound to the heart, liver and kidneys would kill you fairly quickly....

catscradle77 said...

And I agree too. The movement of the bodies though, still has me puzzled.

And the return trip, if there was one, why the first night and not the second?

And once again, relying on Sadie to be truthful, which is a downfall, she places Tex in the car, while Manson only went inside the LaBianca's. Leno did not appear to be a small man, so I am wondering what was said and done upon entrance there to subdue them so.

Heaven said...

I don't believe a word Susan says...

=)

catscradle77 said...

LOL..it is hard to, really it is.

Charlie in the Murphy interview, when asked about the return trip, denies that it happened too. (after wanting to know who told Murphy that).

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>>Sadie testified that she saw a dog in the window.

That whole dog thing was so stupid. Sadie said she thought the dog maybe took her knife to bury it. Ok Sadie, so during all this carnage a dog wanders into the house, picks up your bloody knife and runs outside with it? Sure, Sadie. And did the dog run down to the car to get a belly rub from Linda, too? WTF? There is truth mixed into her stories, but some of the shit she's come up with is truly wack.

Heaven said...

I'm sure he would deny it...

If he admitted it now, it would place him at the crime scene and he's said all along he had nothing to do with the murders...

Tex says he had no idea Sharon was pregnant. How could he have missed it?

agnostic monk said...

jempud said...
>>>Glad the Monk made it

Hi Jem, thanks for the kind words. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

And you brought up a good question. Did the clean-up crew do any "extra" damage? It's not hard to imagine what with all the knife games being played at the ranch. A bale of hay, a dead body, all good practice. Especially if Scramble-brains Clem was one of the returnees.

catscradle77 said...

LOL-no the dog pulled Linda's pigtails and Linda bit it.

Sadie is whacked, and will forever be whacked in my mind. Tex, and his I didn't know she was pregnant, when Jay stood up and tried to protect Sharon, is totally whacked.

Should they get out? According to what legally stands they should, but I really don't want to wake up one morning and see Sadie or Tex as my neighbor.

Just as the Colonel blogged about the law, it is out of whack with what should be done. The people making them have no clue as to what they are doing. The sad part is somehow we voted or they got to a position that allows them to decide these things without a clue.

I feel badly for the children of Tex, for one can not chose who their father is. (and no Red, everyone doesn't need a father like Charlie-lol)

catscradle77 said...

And one of my favorite Texisms..when point blank asked if he could forgive someone if they did something to his pregnant wife like was done to Sharon, he answered "I don't know".

But yet God forgives him, and he had enough nerve to contact Doris Tate.

Pass the plate, Tex.

Heaven said...

I think Bobby and Bruce should be released...

According to Tex, he's not even in prison..
He pretty much runs the place...

=)

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>Should they get out?

IMHO Tex, Sadie, and Pat seem to be doing a lot of good right where they are. I don't think any of the three should get out until they are in wheelchairs. Charlie? He doesn't seem to want to get out, or at least his personal conviction that he won't get out coupled with his need to maintain his psycho image seems to have sealed his fate.

Leslie seems to deserve a chance at freedom. I can hardly imagine her being a danger.

It seems odd that Bruce and Bobby are still in especially since Clem is a free man.

Then again one can't really compare any of them to each other or to other criminals. It all comes down to context, the nature of each individual crime and criminal, and the nuances/politics of parole boards.

catscradle77 said...

Bobby has earned it years ago. Bruce, and yes these words are leaving my mouth (the truth is the truth and all that happiness), went down notches in my eyes, when he stated he wrote to Rabbitt for awhile, and has contact with Dennis Rice. I am sorry, but that made me kinda sick. Also, I am sure that when his attorney referred to the Parole Board as something like Nazi's, it didn't help matters either.

Bruce has earned parole, but what I stated earlier, really shot him down in my eyes a few notches.

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>when he stated he wrote to Rabbitt for awhile, and has contact with Dennis Rice.

I didn't know that. Seems his contact with Rice would be mostly about Jesus stuff though, no? And probably trying to get Rabbit to come to Jay-Jay, too?


>>>I am sure that when his attorney referred to the Parole Board as something like Nazi's, it didn't help matters either.<<<

Whoa, fumble! Reminds me of when Debra Frazier went off about how much of a drug fiend Voytek was in one of Susan's hearings. Dumb!

catscradle77 said...

Jesus-smeeeus...lol. Dennis Rice left his kids to be holed up under a chicken coop while Dennis was in jail. Jesus or no Jesus, the whole contact with Rice seems sickening expecially from what I can tell, they didnt know each other on the outside.

I don't know why he had contact with Rabbitt, but he states in his last parole hearing he stopped responding to him because Rabbitt was too bizarre. (point, but still why write him if you are claiming to have cut off contact?)

And, yes, in the attorneys closing, he remarks that the Parole Board is like Nazi Germany or something. I did the double take too, but it is in there.

And I didnt know that about Frazier. Crazy.

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>>Jesus or no Jesus, the whole contact with Rice seems sickening expecially from what I can tell, they didnt know each other on the outside.<<<<

Hmmm, well, that is interesting.

Ok so, Dennis Rice was/is a wack-job who is now doing the Jesus thing in very loud way. Bruce Davis on the other hand has gone the Jesus route from what I can tell in a quiet, personal way, which I can respect even if it isn't my path (Roman Catholic upbringing aside, sorry Mom).

So I see two elements here: #1. Not to offend anyone's spiritual beliefs and stereotype here but people on the Jesus route seem to like to "fellowship" or whatever they call it. And #2. All of these Family people are getting old, maybe some of them searching their souls and their histories and still trying to make sense of it or make something good out of it.

So I guess it doesn't surprise me that Davis would reach out to Dennis Rice.

What's my point? I guess I'd like to know more about where you are coming from, Cats.

Sorry, I'm also delirious from an insane day of dog-walking and late-evening errands and stuff.

: )

catscradle77 said...

Allrighty, since you asked Monk..lol

You have people who did some very wrong things (to say the least), that find God and salvation for themselves and their souls. They find the forgiveness they seek in order to live with themselves. (being the non-religious type, just my take on it). Fine, Jim-Dandy, you are forgiven, carry on. That is their business, and whatever floats their jailbird butts..

In Bruce's case, he was point blank asked if he had cut off contact with the others. He listed letters he got from Red and Blue, he returned, a letter from George he turned over, etc. All Jim-Dandy again. Then the infamous but comes--he got letters from Rabbitt and Rice, and answered, so in essence, no, he was just selective who he still had contact with.

To add to that, and hop on the Rice-O-Phony train, God or no God, the whole Rice kids, the vest and the use of Manson's name, leans me to believing that it isn't real. Why would one want to be associated with such a thing-when it seems he has kept his distance for years upon end?

There are plenty of other ministries to associate with, not one bearing the name that Rice's does.

To hang with Tex and pray in prison in the name of God, as was done, is quite the other thing too.

How far can one take using the name of God, to rationalize behavior that is contradictory to what one speaks? (I know its the basic premise of what some of these religions do)

It just seems as if some of them have run from one "idol" to another, with the same zeal as was in their younger days..yes they are getting older, and probably looking for answers, but instead of looking outside themselves they need to really look inside themselves and get real for a quick minute, before the pinebox comes.

LOL-you asked Mr. Monk.

jempud said...

Hi guys

I was looking at Brett's site - he has recently posted a list of people known (or maybe alleged?) to have been involved with the 'family' at some time.

One of those names was Corin aka Corinne Brosket aka Broskette, whom I know [of] today in another (theatrical) role.

Anyone ever heard before of Corin's involvement with CM and his buddies?

Monk - I am touched by your mention of me - and feel so unworthy.

Jem
(Back in her native Westmoreland)

agnostic monk said...

catscradle77 said...
>>>LOL-you asked Mr. Monk

well, I'm glad I did because now I understand more of your perspective with this Bruce/Dennis stuff. Was that letter stuff from his last parole hearing? even the mention of red and blue? Is the transcript available on brets site? I'm gonna search for it, would like to read more.

: )

agnostic monk said...

jempud said...
>>>Monk - I am touched by your mention of me - and feel so unworthy.

hi jem, it was sincere. I got into your posts months ago. anyway, all the folks here are really great, even with disagreements over points-of-view and even though the blog has gone through some major drama. It feels strangely like a mutual admiration society right now, let's all make-out!

and ha ha at unworthy. "I am unworthy of your love!" I hope you got that reference...

Heaven said...

I agree Monk..

This place has sure seen it's share of drama but I gutta be honest.. I like the way it is now..

For one thing, all that stupid ID hijacking is gone and that's a bonus!

=)

catscradle77 said...

Yes-it is good to see some familiar faces again! :)

And Monk-you got the snipe!!

jempud said...

Heaven dice...

For one thing, all that stupid ID hijacking is gone and that's a bonus!

Yes - it was good to learn that I was not you and you were not me, or even my Doppelgänger.

I'm a bit worried when Monk says It feels strangely like a mutual admiration society right now, let's all make-out!.

You wanna make out with a duck, Monk?
Like the Chinese emperors ? I didn't know this was that kind of a blog.

Whatever, yes, it's lovely to have a caring sharing environment. Fingers crossed it lasts ..

Jem

agnostic monk said...

weird that The Col posted the article about Virginia murder laws and then today this awful shit goes down on that campus.

Col are you a little bit psychic?

catscradle77 said...

Thank you sir. May we have another?

jempud said...

I just tried to log on to http://truthontatelabianca.com/ - seems I have been banned. KInda weird - haven't posted anything there for a couple of months ..

Hope it's not that ID thing going round again?

Jem

Dok said...

Jem, Cat would never ban you without telling you so. I think they might be experiencing some errors.


Monk, it's good to see you again!

catscradle77 said...

Yes, there are errors, and they are being worked on, seems to happen to certain ranges of numbers. It will be fixed as soon as possible-but my upstairs neighbor has a gas leak and it is causing some difficulty and chaos at the moment, and my attention is focused on other things at the moment. Apologies. :-)

Deb said...

I just tried to log on to http://truthontatelabianca.com/ - seems I have been banned. KInda weird - haven't posted anything there for a couple of months ..

Thanks Jem ... didn't know this board existed until you posted but I have checked it out... cool newspaper articles that I haven't seen before... :)

Hiya Dok, Cats and Monk...

Hi to the Colonel as well

Deb

Deb said...

Whoops... hi to 60skid as well :)

60skid said...

Deb said...
Whoops... hi to 60skid as well :)

Hi Deb, How you doing ?

60skid said...

Hi Col,

If anyone knows the answer its you.

Is Philippe Forquet still alive ?

jempud said...

Cat

thanks for the explanation, and good luck with the plumbing!

Jem

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catscradle77 said...

hey Deb, good to see you too.

Jem, sorry for the confusion, and God willing I don't have to use one of my cat lives due to gas leakage, hopefully over the weekend things can get back to normal, whatever that may be.
:-)

Heaven, any idea what he is doing nowadays?

60skid said...

Heaven said...
60skid said...
Hi Col,

If anyone knows the answer its you.

Is Philippe Forquet still alive ?

4:41 PM, April 19, 2007


Yup, he's still alive...

Thanks Heaven,

From what I read he lives in France.With his 3rd wife and 3 children.He took over his father estate and owns a resturant.

Heaven said...

You're welcome...

=)