Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Solo....heh...heh...heh


Okay, no, it's not Jabba the Hutt, it is Donald the Hutt, aka Donald Lee Laisure.

This fat waste of space married Susan Atkins back in the crazy eighties for like ten minutes. Then, during a conjugal visit, she supposedly attacked him with a knife.

Ahh, fun times.

Here's the question though. You're in jail for like seven murders and stuck with sapphic love and self-diddling for life. For a short window you get the chance to get married and have some man love. And you choose this freakazoid?

I know the new husband is no prize, but he at least helped expose Nelson.

What the hell was Susan thinking?

The most irritating thing at each parole hearing was to hear Steve Kay (Judy to Bug's Punch) list this marriage and alleged stabbing as another reason why she shouldn't get out of jail.

Hey, four eyes you nerd- she shouldn't get out because she stabbed a pregnant woman and danced in her blood, okay. If you need another reason then you suck as much as you look like you do. You claimed BLACK DAHLIA AVENGER was an accurate book, you idiot, Susan can marry a Hutt if she wants to. Just keep her away from the Col.

Sorry for the rant.

Anyone know what became of Donald the Hutt?

199 comments:

GLH said...

Didn't she marry him thinking he was wealthy?

GLH said...

I had heard he died in '97. There is a Donald L. Laisure, born 10/17/22, who died on 11/15/97 on the SSDI. Not sure it's the same one.

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Deb B said...

I thought savage/Carlos said bye-bye to this blog. Was that just for the day?

Poor Susan - all she did was comfortingly hold and talk to Sharon while Tex stabbed her.

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Heaven said...

What the hell was Susan thinking?

I think that's the biggest problem.. Susan never did any of her own thinking...

Was her marriage to him before or after they put an end to conjugal visits? If it was before, I think you may have your answer....

=)

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SiebenzumSterben said...

Here we go again with the phony posts.
I joined in Oct. 2005 my profile is public, the imposter has a private profile, and if they elect to change that and make it public, they'll have to change their start-up date too.

Heaven, I'm already a KTS member...I sort of floated over here. It's a great blog, but these fake posts are really starting to be irritating. Has Bob completed the transfer of his mansonmurders Web site?

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Heaven said...

I think it's highly debatable on whether or not Susan actually stabbed Sharon.. She claims she was holding Sharon's arms behind her while Tex did the dirty deed..

That can't be true because Sharon had many defensive wounds to both her arms..

Susan had no problem stabbing Voyteck in the legs, so I'm sure she stabbed Sharon once or twice..

What she says now, is all lies.. Lies from a desperate woman who knows she'll never walk free ever again.
She says that everything she told the Grand Jury was the truth. If that's is indeed the truth, then she did stab Sharon.

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Heaven said...

What "bayonette" do you keep referring too?

Sharon's wounds were 4 inches in depth. That hardly qualifies as a "bayonette" wound, that's a knife wound..

Heaven said...

It's really irrelevant if Susan "actually" stabbed Sharon.. She went, she helped, she held her down, she laughed in her face, she helped to get rid of prints... Later, she laughed and gloated about how she helped kill Sharon Tate...

I'd say that pretty much makes her just as guilty of her death.

nellieoleson said...

suesan just picked the wrong guy

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Heaven said...

Tex says he brought a knife to the Tate house, Tex was there.. He says that he stepped up to Parent with a gun in one hand and his knife in the other..

He says he brought a bayonet with him to the LaBianca's..

So if you say he had a bayonet with him both nights, why does he say that he didn't?

Where in the coroner's report does it say that Tex used a bayonet?

It still doesn't matter whether Susan stabbed her or not. It doesn't make her any less guilty of her death.

Tex did stab her, I have no doubt of that.. But just because Susan didn't take any shots doesn't make her an innocent woman...

Nothing Susan has ever said is 100% factual...

Heaven said...

You cannot disclose for personal reasons? There's something about this case that actually give someone "personal reasons" LOL

=)

nellieoleson said...

well heaven he can give away his snitch's

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Heaven said...

I have no doubt what so ever that Tex stabbed Sharon... But I do doubt that Susan was holding Sharon's arms behind her back..

If Sharon's arms were behind her, then she would have defensive wounds on them..

So, if Susan wasn't busy stabbing Sharon, what was she doing?

Heaven said...

Meant to say...

If Sharon's arms were behind her, then she wouldn't have defensive wounds on them..

nellieoleson said...

but again heaven susan changes her story every time she tells it, how can u tell what is real and what is not

Heaven said...

You can't... She'll lie to you about the time of day...

Audio Magic said...

SPEW!!!
LMAO COL.!!!
SHE WAS THE BIGGEST SLAG,WHORE SYPHILLITIC POS OF ALL! (IMO, OF COURSE) THEN SHE TRYS TO CONVINCE EVERYONE SHE WENT ALL JESUS N' SHIT?...IS THAT ABOUNDING LOVE MINISTERIES SITE STILL UP?
(Cripes she gives me the friggin willies) The best thing that happened to her was life in prison--they fixed her nasty teeth!

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Elmer Fudd said...

nellieoleson said...
suesan just picked the wrong guy

there's that wascally wabbitt...now that I'm back from my hunting trip with dick chebey can concentrate on you wabbitt...BTW...you think she should've married you since you claim to have balled her at spahn (would that be wabbitt spahning?)??? just curious ELMER FUDD/WABBITT HUNTER

Elmer Fudd said...

nellieoleson said...
but again heaven susan changes her story every time she tells it, how can u tell what is real and what is not

Sounds like you you wascally wabbitt...is that what the water st spahn did? Make liars of people? tell us what went down wabbitt ELMER FUDD/WABBITT HUNTER

Deb B said...

Didn't Susan go outside to Linda and get another knife from her after she lost the knife she came to the Tate house with?

Also, I haven't read the autopsy report, but the first investigation report recounts the victims injuries and doesn't say anything about Sharon Tate having defensive wounds in her arms.

Does she now deny saying those horrible things to Sharon Tate as she pleaded for her life?

No way was she just idly standing around not doing anything.

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Heaven said...

Deb,

You can see by the death photos that Sharon has several wounds to both her arms. There are photos of these wounds specifically...


And it's also in her autopsy report.

Savage,

It doesn't matter when Susan went out for Linda's knife, fact is, she did go.. So she did have a knife with her when they killed Sharon...

Heaven said...

Meant to also say that Susan lost her knife during her struggle with Voyteck.. So we know it was at least after the chaos began that she went out and got Linda's. We just don't know at what exact point..

Sharon had a stab wound to the back of one of her legs, probably courtesy of Susan..... Stabbing in the legs seemed to be her thing..

We can't say with any degree of certainty that she in fact did not stab Sharon. We don't know, we weren't there. But the fact is, she did stab Voyteck, be it in the leg.. And she did stab her husband. So why are we to believe that she didn't have it in her to take a poke at Sharon?

Heaven said...

She was wild and rebellious as a youth, as i'm sure that many of us can say we were at her age, and she lost her mom at a time in her life when she needed that guidance.

I greatly disagree with that statement.. Poor Susan, she had a bad childhood.. So that gives her the right to take part in one of the most grotesque murders of the 20th century?

I had a very wild childhood AND I never had a mother, but I didn't go around terrorizing and helping to kill innocent people..

Susan is using her past as a crutch and that's a slap in the face to those of us who overcame our pasts and made something of ourselves.

She's not a bad person? No, you're right.. Good people always hold pregnant women down as they scream out for their babies lives so they can be butchered a bit more neatly...

Her life is a tragic story? If anyone wrote her own life's path, it was Susan. A lot of kids have abusive tragic childhoods and they overcome it...

Susan chose her own path in life, now she must deal with the consequences.

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Heaven said...

So, who told her to taste Sharon's blood?

I can understand what you're trying to say, but minimizing Susan's actions isn't going to change what she did..

I believe Tex killed Sharon, but I'm not convinced that Susan didn't stab Sharon in the leg. We knew she had a knife.. She used a knife to get Sharon and Jay into the living room...

According to Susan, after her struggle with Tex, Linda had approached the house, telling Susan to "make it stop".. So Linda was standing right there when Voyteck came outside and collapsed..

It was then that Susan took Linda's knife, so it only took her 2 seconds to become armed again..
You make it sound like there was no opportunity for Susan to have gotten Linda's knife.. Linda was standing right there outside the door...

She then returned to the house and guarded Sharon while Tex finished off Voyteck.. Then, Patricia became busy with Gibby.

You can dispute whatever you wish, but the facts are the facts...

Heaven said...

Susan being attractive is a matter of opinion. Susan, (in my opinion) was never good looking. In her mug shot, she looks like a total idiot.

The prettiest girl in the famiy was (in my opinion) Ruth Ann, second was Leslie...

There is more to attractiveness than just the physical.. Somehow that green puss the seeped from Susan's crotch just doesn't sound very appealing. Not to mention the fact that she sexually molested her infant son. In my opinion, she's disgusting, in many ways..

SiebenzumSterben said...

Beauty is subjective. I always thought Sharon was stunning. But my Sara says Sharon's not pretty at all. Teeth too big, shoulders too broad...it's all in the eye of the beholder.
Of course I always thought Pamela Tiffin was a hottie too.
We'll never know who did what to whom. They are all dead, those people were in the house, they should all share in the responsibility. If the original sentences would have been carried out 35 years ago, there'd be no rewriting of history now.
Oh, BTW I'm curious---Heaven who is that in the picture on your profile?

Heaven said...

Hiya Sieben,

It's good to see ya..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. I think Dorothy Stratten was stunning, but not everyone agree's..

Why, that's me in that picture.. Aren't I a hottie LOL

Actually, it's Jenna Jamison lol
She's a big slut but I love her hair lol

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Denise said...

I think you're right Gary. I think she was conned by him. Karma!

RichSpeck said...

In some camera angles Atkins looks like a totally different person.

But in most she looks like she should carry her purse in her mouth.

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SiebenzumSterben said...

Heaven aren't you a devious one. I thought the girl in that picture looked familiar :-)

TBH though, at one point when all the "nastiness" was going on between KTS and the col, he posted what he claimed to be a pic of you being interviewed on Larry King or somewhere. Was that really you?

Savage we agree on Ouisch. But have you seen here lately? Time hasn't been too kind.

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Heaven said...

Savage,

Like I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. If you think Susan is good looking, that's your right...

Dorothy Stratten's murder was very tragic, all over greed and jealousy. Poor girl was caught in the crosshairs..

Sieben,

Nope, that wasn't my picture..
Everything between the Col and I are cool now.. We put the past to rest... I used the picture of Jenna cause everyone I know tells me I look just like her...

60skid,

I completely agree with your last post.. Susan was found guilty of 7 murders. Apparently she hasn't been able to convince the parole board that she didn't do anything wrong..

In my opinion, conspiracy is just as bad as though you took the life yourself. Susan is guilty, she needs to serve her time and STFU.. My opinion of course...

=)

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Heaven said...

Savage,

You can read all the parole transcripts here, including the psyc exams

http://www.internet.is/bret/manson.htm

If you go through and read all her hearings, you'll see how much her story has changed. This woman, even today, wouldn't know the truth if it bit her in the ass.
How can anyone feel sorry for someone who does nothing but lies?

Apparently susan feels that because she has found God and become a Christian, that somehow erases all the wrong doings..

The fact that she was there when Gary was killed didn't seem to scare her off. She was happy to go to the Tate house and she knew exactly what was going to happen there...

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Heaven said...

60skid makes a very good point.. Why would Susan, the sexually free girl who had no inhibitions, no fears about sex and had done everything that could be done, be scared of lesbians?

Wasn't it Tom Jones she said she wanted to have sex with, then kill him as he climaxed?

Heaven said...

This is about Susan's marriage...

http://www.internet.is/bret/Atkins-1982-marriage-report.htm

nellieoleson said...

heaven remember what susan said about frank sinatra , they they were going to chop me in little peices so everyone could have a peice of frank

Audio Magic said...

Heaven--According to Susan Atkins she is a "Born Again Christian" that is the reason she will not do the lesbian thing.

Heaven said...

Susan's Grand Jury testimony.. This is what she swears today, is the truth... I've highlighted some of my favorites

Q.Did Tex tell you why he and you three girls were going to
Tony Melcher's former residence?


A.To get all of their money and to kill whoever was there.

So, by her own "truthful" admission. She knew exactly where she was going and why she was going there...

Susan recanted this statement in 1993 when she claimed she had no idea why they were going to 10050 Cielo drive. But remember, she swears today that this testimony is the truth...

Q.Did you have a knife in your hand at that time?
A.Yes, I did.
Q.What happened next?

A.I hesitated long enough for the man to jump up. he knocked
me down and I grabbed him as best I could and then it was a fight
for my life as well as him fighting for his life.

Somehow he got hold of my hair and pulled it very hard and
I was screaming for Tex to help, or somebody to help me, and
Frykowski, he was also screaming.

Somehow he got behind me and I had the knife in my right hand and I was - -I was - - I don't know where I was at but I was just swinging with the knife and I remember hitting something
four, five times repeatedly behind me. I didn't see what it was
that I was stabbing.


Once again, in 1993 she retracted this statement, saying she never stabbed anyone...

I saw Tex go back outside and then he came hack inside
and at that time Katie and I were standing by Sharon and she was
out of her mind. She was saying nothing. She was not screaming. I
was not holding her. I was just standing in front of her.


Tex told me to kill her. I couldn't. I just - - in order to make a diversion so that Tex couldn't see that I couldn't kill her I grabbed her hand and held her arms and then I saw Tex stab her in the heart area around the chest. With a knife. Then I saw Sharon fall to the floor off the couch and we went, all three of us, went out the front door.

So, why did Sharon have so many defensive wounds to her arms if Susan was holding them behind her back?

This is where the author supports my question...

If you examine the death scene photo of Sharon Tate, it is
rather obvious that the victim was sitting when she began to be
stabbed. The blood on the cushion supports that. Was it only once to the heart? If so, it was fatal! But then, what about those defensive wounds on the left arm of Sharon Tate? How could she have deflected those blows, if Susan held her arms behind her?


Good question...

Maybe someone should hold up Q cards for Susan at her hearings so she can remember which lies she told at which hearing...

Audio Magic said...

"The groom. 52 year old Donald lee laisure Sr. of Houston. wore an orange leisure suit for the wedding. His diamond ring was 12 carats, he said. Hers was 39 carats."
Oh CRIPES!! ROFLMFAO!

Heaven said...

Audio,

Yes, Susan is a Christain now, but she wasn't when she first arrived at SBI in 1969.. She was fresh from the Family then ..

Heaven said...

Yeah, thats quite a ring to be sporting when you're walking around "the yard". lol

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RichSpeck said...

WTF are you talking about?




"Lotsapoppa". That's the only name that Manson is directly tied to as having personally murdered.


The mother f'er wasn't dead.


He survived.

You are so without integrity its pathetic.

I got your savage right here (groping my jewels).

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4Sharon said...

Just to clarify a point. Sharon's arms could have been behind her back to a DEGREE, and still have her forarms in front, to get those defensive wounds - think about the angle of her arms. I have seen the defensive wounds and yes, her arms could have been partway behind her. I too think Tex did the main job of all the stabbing, not Susan. Regardless, Susan is where she needs to be. She was part of it all and she bragged, so let her get what she deserves. But, I just think Tex did the main stabbing.

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Heaven said...

If Manson didn't actually kill anyone, why was he found guilty of murdering Shorty?

Manson not murdering anyone is HIGHLY debatable... Just because he didn't kill any of the 7 Tate/LaBianca victims doesn't mean he never killed anyone...

Savage, when you're laying next to Susan, make sure you ask her if the green oozing vaginal puss is all cleared up...

=)

Deb B said...

I think Susan he had all these wierd ideas about death and killing, she's been around Manson and believed his crap that "death is an illusion"; when you kill someone, you're really just killing yourself; people are just egos with shells. She really didn't think she'd done anything wrong and celebrated what she'd done - she had no compunction about freely admitting what she'd done.

She's now backed off from those statements.

I think she did tell the truth at the grand jury - I believe her statements about the murders then more than I believe what she says now.

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nellieoleson said...

heaven if susan was released today and had a choice of 2 doors to leave from and one door was a church van with born again christians and the other door was a van with country sue and sandra good
do u really think that susan would still go with the born again christians
its a prison game being born again,

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Heaven said...

Nellie,

I can't really make a judgment call about Susan's religious conversion.. It's between her and God..

I do think it that it's pretty convenient that she becomes a Christian and publishes her first (self serving) book just before her first parole hearing.. It's also funny that Tex did the same exact thing...

Savage,

It's a well known fact that Susan had VD so bad that she had green puss seeping out of her viginia. It also caused sores on her feet, that's why she couldn't wear shoes to the Tate house. During her struggle with Voyteck, the sores broke open..

By her own admission, the green shit coming out of her crotch was "the most God awful stuff you ever smelled"..

I dunno bout you, but if I was a guy my dick would be throbbing right now.... NOT! Sorry to break it to ya big boy, but I never had crotch rot so no, I don't have experience.. But I cahn read... Since you're a fan of Susan's, I'm surprised you haven't read her book.. She talks all about this....

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Heaven said...

I know it's gone.. I would hope after almost 40 years she would have had it treated lol

I've never heard of anyone having VD that bad before either...

The 60's were loaded with drugs, sex and VD.. Weren't there any free clinics around back then that could have treated her for it?

Why on earth would she wanna walk around with it? It just seems rather strange that the thought to get it treated, didn't seem to occur to her..

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Audio Magic said...

Heaven said...
"It's really irrelevant if Susan "actually" stabbed Sharon.. She went, she helped, she held her down, she laughed in her face, she helped to get rid of prints... Later, she laughed and gloated about how she helped kill Sharon Tate...

I'd say that pretty much makes her just as guilty of her death."

2:10 PM

AMEN, Heaven! The facts of this case and what actually happened? They will never be known...
Audio

Audio Magic said...

"savage national socialist said...
I was implying that since you girls seemed to know so much about "That kind of thing" that it was a suggestion that it came from personal experience :-) lol, obviously not.

I was simply saying that i never got it on with a woman with that kind of a condition .. thank goodness.

I'm very well aware that she had medical issues when she lived with charlie and the others, but those were the times."

9:24 AM

Not everyone was a so-called hippie back then. I knew a lot of pseudo-hippies, though. Hippies that went to Ivy League colleges that thumbed their noses at their capitalist pig parents, but those pig parents were paying for their college tuition, and fancy hippy wardrobes. Some of these "lost Manson people" were poor little rich kids who wanted to "find themselves." So, they go trotting off into the desert with some weasely, runty, little paroled con-man to find the truth? That whole scene was a sorry house of cards, which led to a very dark beginning of what we now have going on in the world today. Charlie didn't start this dark period, but he was part of it. BTW, Charlie Manson hated hippies. He said so. He used them because they were usable.
Audio

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4Sharon said...

I am amazed at all the hypocrites on these posts. They consider Susan Atkins throw away trash, not wanting to consider her lifestyle and then forgive her for wrong choices made. YET, Debra made MANY wrong choices and everyone is told to "look at her loss, her life...she made mistakes, forgive her"...
Okay, so, Debra didn't murder and Susan did...but, just say Debra spiraled down and DID murder...then would everyone change their tune and say "she's throw away trash"? Doubt it.
I am not a fan of Susan's, don't get me wrong. But, I am just thinking what hypocrites people can be - Debra is forgiven for ALL, because her sister was a "STAR". I know some will say "no, Susan was evil hearted and Debra wasn't." BUT, if Debra grew up AS SUSAN DID, would SHE have been also? Think about that.

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Heaven said...

4Sharon,

For me, it's not a matter of hating Susan or thinking she's trash. I'm not Susan's judge and jury, nor am I Debra's..

You can't really compare Debra and Susan.. Whatever mistakes Debra has made she's made them against herself and she has to live with it..

What Susan has done is entirely different.. Hers was crimes that affected society. So she wasn't just hurting herself..

I can't feel sorry for Susan and I'm really not interested in her "difficult childhood".. She was 21 years old when she committed these crimes. The statute of limitations on her childhood had run out. She was then a grown woman.. She knew right from wrong.. She needs to accept her punishment and deal with it...

Debra has never harmed anyone, that I'm aware of.. Her ghosts and skeltons are her own...

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Heaven said...

Savage,

I'm sorry but I just can't muster up any sympathy for some of them, especially Susan..

Life is full of choices.. God gave us a brain and the ability to use it.. Susan lacked common sense, the ability to think for herself.. Manson didn't take it, she gave it to him.. He never forced her to do anything she didn't want to do..

Susan made her choices back in 1969 and I just don't feel sorry for her in the least. She should have thought about the punishment before she committed the crime..

As for a free ride, you bet your ass she got a free ride. She's got a roof over her head, food in her stomach, clothes on her back, all medical, and dental expenses paid, including her hearing aid.. She even has a college degree, that she'll never use.. And, she was able to publish a book..

How much money in tax dollars was spent on all of this? She's not paying for it. I'd call that a free ride. I have to pay for my house,food, clothing, medical & dental expenses.. No one provides these things for me..

If her life is so hard, maybe she should have thought about that..

I don't care how much of Susan's life has been spent locked up, no matter how long it is, it'll never be long enough..

My sympathy goes out to Steve Parent, Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, Voyteck Frykowski, Leno LaBianca, Rosemary LaBianca, Sharon Tate and her innocent baby.. Those are the people that suffered.. I feel bad for their families, for all the Christmas, Thanksgivings and birthdays that they'll never again share with those they loved.

How do you think Sharon Tate felt as Susan laughed in her face, tormenting her? How do you think Paul and Doris Tate felt as Susan laughed, giggled and played up to the cameras during the trial?

She didn't care about anyone but herself, and now she has no one to blame BUT herself...

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Heaven said...

I agree 100%.. Susan, Tex, and Patricia are all guilty. No one is worse than anyone else, they all played an equal role of the events that happened..

But in that guilt is also Manson and Linda...

I don't believe that Susan delivered any of the fatal blows to Sharon, BUT, I wouldn't be surprised if the leg wound Sharon had was done by Susan.. Maybe it wasn't, but we'll never know cause we'll never get a truthful account out of Susan..

The only story I really believe is Patricia's...

Heaven said...

Actually I take that back, Tex was the worst...

4Sharon said...

60's kid. I have no hate for Debra. Don't even know her. I was commenting on things the Col. has unveiled and all that I have heard/read - and comparing all she did to how Susan grew up - they both made bad choices, yet Debra, according to posts, can do no wrong! Granted she didn't kill anyone, but her life growing up was not as bad as Susan's - if it was, would she then? See what I mean?
As far as Susan, she belongs in prison and I am NO fan of hers. But, everyone here defends Debra to the death, when the Col is bringing to light alot of things she is doing wrong! Not to mention all the things I have heard her do, from her current board members.

4Sharon said...

And.....WHAT ABOUT THAT WILL???!!! LOL LOL LMAO WASSUP with that???!!!
Debra and Paige - you have a racket going on out there??? Are yall scamming your members? Even though most of the members are made up names by Paige??? WASSUP!!!!!!!!!!! Boy, Col, we are seeing what a person of integrity Debra is!!!!!!!! Choke Choke LOL

Audio Magic said...
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Audio Magic said...

But, remember, these kids you talk about today, the ones who like all the packaged no plastic stuff were raised by the so-called hippies.

Typo--I meant to say the ones who like all the packaged AND plastic stuff

RichSpeck said...

Audio,

I passed the draft. I was 185 out of 365 the year I was eligible. That year the draft went up to 179 I think. Next year to be drafted all 365 numbers would have been gone through before even getting to me.

I was a lucky bastard.


Would I have gone instead of crossing into Canada and then get my ass shot off in Nam. Yes.

In my mind now that I am older would I do the same. Hell no.

It was as stupid of a war as the Iraq invasion is.

There is nothing to be proud of to accept an ugly war.

Those guys that went to Canada had more guts than the sheep that went to slaughter in Nam.

Audio Magic said...
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Heaven said...

4Sharon,

Some people fall over themselves over Debra, simply because she was Sharon's sister. I am not one of those people..

Debra is really a nobody, a wanna be who tries to live in her dead sisters shadow...

The Tate family have their lives ripped apart by no fault of their own, so for that, I do feel bad for Debra.. But am I a fan of hers? No.. I am a fan of Sharon, and I don't feel that I have to worship Debra to honor Sharon. They were two seperate people...


=)

RichSpeck said...

yes, audio.

I would call anyone that went to Nam and went unwilling a sheep.

Those that fought willingly are different.

Sheep to slaughter. That phrase didn't come from ether. It accurately describes Nam.

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Audio Magic said...

RichSpeck said...
"yes, audio.

I would call anyone that went to Nam and went unwilling a sheep.

Those that fought willingly are different.

Sheep to slaughter. That phrase didn't come from ether. It accurately describes Nam."
--------------------------
Okely dokely...
<3 <3 <3

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Heaven said...

Savage,

The reason we're showing more anger towards Susan and not Tex or Patricia is because we're not discussing Tex and Patricia right now.. This topic is about Susan...

Susan may not have stabbed Sharon, but to sit in Sharon's house, holding her down and telling her she had no mercy for her, to me, is a very cruel thing to do...

Sharon was "out of her mind". Susan's own words..
How could she take part in what was happening and still feel good about herself? You say that she was freaked out and didn't want to be there...
She tasted Sharon's blood, on her own free will.. No one made her do it.. Someone who isn't enjoying what they see, isn't going to do something so sick.

Sharon begged for her babys life and Susan told her to "Shut up bitch, I don't care if you're going to have a baby. You're going to die and I don't feel a thing about it, So be ready"..

All I can say to Susan is..
"Shut up bitch. I don't care if you're sorry. You're going to rot in prison and I don't feel a thing about it. So be ready"..

Ahhh Susan, to spend almost 40 years in prison.. Must suck being her. But I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for her. She made her own bed, I hope she hates lying in it...

Same goes for Tex too...

Heaven said...

As for The Hollywood Walk Of Fame...

I'd love to see Sharon get a star, but it's probably never going to happen.. Sharon is more famous for her death than her life...

nellieoleson said...

heaven did u know that charlie was calling susan sexy saie mae glutz a year and 1/2 before john lennon wrote it, and it fit susan to a tie,rread the lerics to the song, its susan

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Heaven said...

The father of Susan's kid was some guy (I think his name was Robert) that she met before she met Manson.. She was already pregnant when she met Manson...

Nellie,

I'm familiar with the lyrics to Sexy Sadie, and I know manson gave her the name Sadie before the song came out. Personally though, I never found Susan to be sexy, but that's just me...

=)

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4Sharon said...

Agreed. Susan was strange looking in the 60's and that strange look still hangs on to her. She is NOT pretty, to ME.
I see your point on Debra and Susan Heaven and I agree.
I do feel sorry for Debra with what happened to her family, as well and don't hate her. I just didn't like her capitolizing on her sister's fame.
I think we all would agree that many kids have rotten parents, broken homes, bad things that happen to them in life, yet, alot of kids rise above it and are determined to make a better life for themselves. That doesn't give them the right to go out and kill, or pose for OUI and do things to further shame themselves/family.
I think Susan and the rest should remain in prison for thier whole life. IT is an easy sentence compared to what they should have been given.

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4Sharon said...

No, I am sure that prison life IS hell on earth. A system of Hell, but don't you think, that night was HELL for Sharon and the rest? They never got paroled and were able to come down and relive thier lives...so, Susan and fam. should not have that chance either. They have to serve their sentence, which is lighter than death, so they should be grateful of THAT.

Heaven said...

Savage,

Let me ask you something... Do you think that Susan's only crime was if she stabbed Sharon?

You keep saying in almost every post that you don't believe Susan stabbed Sharon, ok, we got it...

It doesn't matter really if Susan did any of the actual killing, it doesn't minimize her involvement..

Did you know that in many states they passed a law that if a car is driven by a drunk driver with a drunk passenger, they're both guilty of DUI... Why? Because neither of them were fit to decide who should drive the car. Now, maybe that law isn't enforced, but it is on the books...

So Susan didn't actually stab Sharon, she did stab Voyteck.. Maybe she didn't kill him, but do you go around stabbing people in the leg as a favor to them?

Just the fact that she was there and participated was enough to put her away forever...

Of course she's different now, it's been almost 40 friggin years.. Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? Of course not.. That changes nothing...
How Susan is TODAY has no bearing on the crimes she's committed in the past... You seem to think it means everything..

They don't empty out prisons simple because inmates have "changed"..

Susan wants out, of course she's going to act like a changed woman. She knows they wouldn't consider her for parole if she didn't..

No one really cares how hard her life is.. You seem to be all alone in this.. The rest of us understand the word choice.. She made her choices many years ago.. We also understand the word consequence... You need to stop preaching about how hard her life was cause it looks like no one cares.. She did this to herself, we didn't do it to her. Why should we feel sorry for her?

She needs to get down on her knee's and be thankful they didn't drop the pill on her. At least she's alive, that's more than she gave the victims.. She's able to celebrate holidays and get college degrees.. Her "hard life" isn't my problem...

RichSpeck said...

None of all this bantering makes any sense.

If a uniform parole guideline were followed Susan, Leslie and Bobby would be out of prison today.

Give one example of murder that isn't heinous.

We have a corrupt system. Doesn't that bother you?

I would rather have a fair system applied equally than a system that reminds me of places like the old USSR, Cuba, Pinochet's government and Iraq's old regime.

This sucks. We're supposed to be above selective prosecution and political imprisonment.


Those guys should have been out of prison years ago. Just because you have the power to make this happen does not make it right.

Bren said...

I agree with you Heaven. Once they kill someone, they can't go back and change it. They need to do the time they were given. And they all are very lucky they weren't put to death.
Bren :)

Heaven said...

Rich,

I agree, this topic is getting old. I think we've said all there is to say....

=)

RichSpeck said...

Heaven said.

"I agree, this topic is getting old. I think we've said all there is to say...."

I have to agree. But, you know what, Heaven?

Bobby is gonna get out as well as Leslie and Susan. And maybe Krenwinkle.

You will read those headlines.

This whole charade of "justice" cannot go on.

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RichSpeck said...

I don't mean to start a love fest with savage guy but perhaps a middle ground can be reached.

The system should apply fairly.

Isn't that what you would want if you were charged unfairly.

What I mean is the hypothetical. If you were charged with a crime you did not commit.

Surely, you want a fair system.

Audio Magic said...

http://www.aboundinglove.org/

http://www.aboundinglove.org/sensational/forgivenorg02.php

RichSpeck said...

Isn't it obvious that we have a parole system operating without consistent application of the law?

Whats the next? Prisoners kept at Guantanamo without being charged for years?

Oh excuse me. Thats already happened.

Heaven said...
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Heaven said...

Savage,

I really hate bring religion into these types of discussions.. Everyone has his or her own beliefs and sometimes adding religion only brings out the worst...

Forgiving Susan isn't up to me, that's between her and God.. I'm sure God has forgiven her, murder is a forgivable sin...

But I don't have to feel sympathy for her present living situation. God gave her a brain and the ability to know right from wrong. I didn't tell her to break into houses and participate in killing the occupants. Susan decided to do that...

I don't know the Bible word for word, but I do believe there's something in there that says something about obeying the laws on earth as you would in Heaven.. And something else about an eye for an eye...

If Susan is truly a Christian who has turned her life over to Jesus, then her rewards will be in Heaven.. But for now, here in the mortal world, she has to pay for the crimes she's committed...
Just as other inmates who have turned to Jesus do.. Susan isn't alone..

Maybe God feels Susan can be of better use inside the prison helping others.. Maybe it was her destiny... I dunno...

If you want to feel sympathy and pity for Susan, that's your right, but it isn't fair of you to "expect" everyone else too also. We have a right to our thoughts, views and opinions, just like you. Simply because we don't all agree with you doesn't mean we're heartless animals. Just try to keep this thought in mind.. It wasn't us who put Susan where she is today, She did it to herself...

As for the justice system, I think we all know it's a joke in this country... But in the case of Susan, Tex, Manson, Leslie and Patricia, I think they're punishment is just.. That's my opinion...

I have no problem with Bobby being released. He didn't take part in the slaughter of 7 people.. 8 if you count an unborn child...

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RichSpeck said...

Heaven said,

"And something else about an eye for an eye..."

They have payed for that eye. Making them pay more makes us no better than a third world justice system.

Let them go or we lose our own humanity.

Mercy is what separates us from being uncivil.

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RichSpeck said...

60skid said,

"3 chances to do the right thing."



Kid, you make a very good point.

It still comes down to them paying for their crimes.

Should they pay more just because of the notoriety and hysteria of this case?

Or should they be treated with fairness like other criminals charged with the same?

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agnostic monk said...

I'm at a loss for words.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to read through this entire thread, but if I'm not mistaken I read in the beginning from Carlos The Jackel that he "feel(s) bad for Susan because she's been played by people her whole life and she's really not a bad person."

This from the guy who "spits" on Linda Kasabian for her role in this drama.

Susan was "wild and rebellious as a youth" and "lost her mom at a time in her life when she needed that guidance."

Holy fucking shit. Cry me a goddamn river, The Bay Areas Own Michael Weiner. Meanwhile, Linda Kasabian is Satan Incarnate.

For the record, I'm not convinced that Susan Atkins stabbed Sharon Tate. I believe Susan restrained Sharon for a good portion of the stabbing that was done by Tex. Sharon struggled, fought. Sharon's arms got free here and there, making attempts to defend herself and to defend her baby. Sadie and Katie thought it was cool to watch Sharon fight the blows from Tex.

Susan's "life is a tragic story. Then along comes Charles Manson and his way of viewing the world captures Susan and next thing you know she's living a nomadic lifestyle in a counter culture environment."

Meanwhile, Linda Kasabian deserves to be spit on.

Holy fucking shit. I don't know what else to say.

Heaven said...

Savage,

You obviously misunderstood my post, or maybe I'm not explaining myself very well.. This topic is getting very old...

In regards to Bobby, what he did was wrong, very wrong.. But almost 40 years for 1 murder is quite harsh. He didn't take part in the Tate/LaBianca crimes..

Most people that don't follow this case have never heard of Gary or Bobby. That crime didn't make national headlines...

I said I'm not opposed to his release, but if the parole boards decide to keep him in jail, I'm not opposed to that either. I never said I was "willing" to let him go... I'll just let the parole board decide what's best in that case...

This whole topic is becoming that dead horse... You and I each see things differently, it doesn't make either of us wrong.. Only different...

=)

Heaven said...

Rich,

I dunno if they're paying for the notoriety or the Manson connection or because of the brutality involved in the murders. But each time they're denied parole it's because they still pose a risk to society.. For whatever reasons...

The decision to free these people does not rest with any of us. We can have our opinions and it doesn't matter. The power to free them isn't ours.

The parole board must see something in them the you don't because they all keep getting denied. So instead of being angry at us for our opinions, have you written to the parole boards? Your words will have more influence with them...

=)

Heaven said...

Savage,

Before you misunderstand me again, let me clarify...

I know what Bobby did to Gary, I know as much of the story as there is to know... The word "harsh" was probably not the best choice cause now you're going to tell me that what Bobby did to Gary was harsh.. And I'll agree that it was..

What I meant to say is, if you feel Susan should be released after being found guilty of 7 murders, then Bobby should be released after being found guilty of 1...

I hope that makes better sense...

=)

Heaven said...

Rich,

You feel that Susan has paid her eye for an eye?

You honestly feel that way?

I'll admit that math isn't my strong suit, but I divided 37 years by 8, that comes out to 4.6 years served for each life she participated in taking... That includes Sharon's unborn child.

If you chose not to include him (even though his was a life) the it comes out to 5.2 years served for 7 deaths..

That's an eye for an eye?

Now look at Bobby.. 1 life, 37 years...

See the difference?

You mentioned a 3rd world justice system.. Compared to the system of other countries, our jails are like hotels.. In other countries, these people would have been put to death a long time ago. Other countries do not provide lifers with college degrees and transplant surgeries. Susan wouldn't have her hearing aid.. She wouldn't have been able to publish her book. She wouldn't have a decent cot to sleep in, or a TV to watch, or a website..

While our system is screwed up, time served for multiple murders doesn't even come close to how bad the system is in other parts of the world...

=)

RichSpeck said...

Heaven, it is not a math problem.

Its a equal distribution of the law problem.

Heaven said...

You can't treat all crimes and the punishments exactly the same. Each situation is different. There are so many different factors to consider when someone comes up for parole...

=)

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Heaven said...

Leslie was found guilty of one count of conspiracy to commit murder and two counts of murder in the first degree.

Whether or not you agree with that doesn't change it...
Apparently because she was there and participated, they found her guilty of Leno's death too.

Bobby was still only found guilty of one murder..

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Heaven said...

Savage babe,

We've debated the Susan topic to death.. I'm really not up for debating Leslie too..

But I will say, there is no proof what-so-ever that Rosemary was dead when Leslie stabbed her... According to her autopsy, after Tex stabbed her, she crawled two feet with a severed spine..

Even Leslie herself said at a parole hearing that she didn't know if she was dead or alive..

The coroner said one of the stab wounds Leslie inflicted, was fatal...

So, we'll never know if Rosemary still had a pulse or not.. But it really doesn't matter.. Leslie picked up a knife and plunged into another human body... Dead or alive, it doesn't matter. Her hands were more dirty than Susan's...

So, by your standards, we should just release the females in this case? You can preach until the end of time that Rosemary was dead, but you (nor anyone) knows that to be a fact...

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Heaven said...

All I know is what the police report said.. After Tex stabbed her and before Leslie began, Rosemary crawled two feet.. More than likely it was when Tex was getting Leslie that Rosemary was crawling... But I dunno that for a fact of course...

Just the thought of that is unbelievable... I can't imagine what the poor woman went thru...

I like you Savage, you're a nice and intelligent person.. So I think we're going to have to agree to disagree in this post lol

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4Sharon said...

I don't feel ANY of the Manson women should be let out of prison, EVER. People lost thier lives. Yeah, you can't undo it, but why should TEx and others be allowed to have lives, when the victims didn't get another chance. Leslie is just as guilty, in participating in the blood bath, on Mrs. LaBianca. NEVER LET THEM OUT!

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Salem said...

Charlie always coached the girls on what to say and do if they were ever hauled off to jail. Susan only played it up because thats what Charlie taught the group. *

???????????????
Susan played it up CUZ Charlie taught it.
LOL
Susan was and still is THE drama Queen!

Salem said...

Poor Susan - all she did was comfortingly hold and talk to Sharon while Tex stabbed her.*

YA !

I agree. Then she tastes the blood of Sharon Tate and delights in it.
ya she's a real sweetheart huh?
She will never get out, nor should she.
Maybe Pat needs to hit her in the head with another chair!
She marries for money , she marries a lawyer. pooooooorrrrrrr
little sadie!
Let's all pray for her!
NOT

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salome said...

I don't believe Susan is rehabilitated. In my opinion, she won't be until she throws herself out a window when she hears Beethoven's Symphony No.9.

4Sharon said...

She's a STRANGE one, isn't she!

salome said...

Strange? Me, Susan or both of us? LOL! My above post was a reference to "The Clockwork Orange" and Stanley Kubrick's interpretation of rehabilitation. I don't see how Susan, Tex, Pat, Leslie can live with themselves. I also my change my user namer. Salem and Salome are too close.

salome said...

Not my change, but might change! :)

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4Sharon said...

LOL, no, I was saying SUSAN ATKINS is strange. LOL
I look at that coot's picture on the front and think "Get you some!". Don't you just want some of THAT! (ewwww!!)
I for some reason, think Susan A. is not all there, even today. She is just strange.

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4Sharon said...

I agree. Oh, so if you have a bad life and bad things happen, then you get to go out and slay??? Please. Alot of people are dealt hard times/lives and they don't go out and do that.

Plus, you don't have to personally meet someone to know they are a weirdo. It's called tv interviews and what others say, that do know her. I am also not playing God. She may be sitting pretty in Heaven one day and we may not be. It was just a take on her strangeness.

4Sharon said...

That IS an interesting take on it though - if the family members are truly repentant, and are saved now, they will be in Heaven one day. The victims, no matter how "good" they were, may NOT - if they were not saved. Think about it. (for those of you who believe in God).

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4Sharon said...

Well, it IS true, that people make horrible mistakes, esp, when young, like Debra did, with OUI and everyone forgives her and explains off her actions to death. Poor Poor Debra...she had it so bad...I realize that is not killing, but just to give an example, of everything is okay for HER, but don't let anyone else do it...Plus, look at Carla Faye Tucker - she too did a HORRID act, when young, but was saved and you could SEE the change in her - it was very obvious and apparent, even to the guards in prison. So, yes, people do deserve a second chance in some instanced.
Here are some interesting thoughts I just read:

Insight:
Last week on our show, "Good and Evil," Naomi asked her viewers an intriguing question:

Do you think people are born evil?

Some of you offered a spiritual perspective to the question:

Olc71: If God created man in His own image, how can man be innately evil? He is All-Good. Therefore man, when created, must be good as well.

Kristijohnbuck: I do not agree that we are born evil, but that we are born into a world of sin. It says in the Bible that a child is born of innocence.

Some of you thought "evil" came from another place:

Juddfan: I don't think that people are born evil. I do think that people can be born with mental problems that cloud their thoughts and judgment

4Sharon said...

But, I have to say THIS. IF Susan is truly remorseful for what she did AND repented to God, than I would think she would ACCEPT her life sentence and not be whining and crying to get out, because she feels she deserves it. From a Christian perspective, you would think she would have the attitude of "Christ, where ever you have me, I am content with it" and know that it is the result of....see what I mean? Carla Faye Tucker did - she accepted it and wasn't whining and crying that she deserved to be set free...

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4Sharon said...

Yes, but you are missing my point. Carla Faye Tucker was "reborn" too and she also wanted out, feeling she had "so much love to give". Yet, she was not released and got lethal injection. Meanwhile, she was content to be used where she was and not fight it, as Susan is doing. She knew that she was to be where she was, and do good there. I think Susan carrying on as she is, is hurting her case. Why can't she accept it and do "her good" in prison? After all, is IS a light sentence.

4Sharon said...

Carla Faye too had a horrible life, growing up and made that terrible mistake of putting an axe in a girl's chest...but you have to think of the victims families, left behind, who are still suffering. How do you think Debra feels? Do you think she feels paroled? Will she ever get Sharon back? NO...and neither will Steven Parents family, and the others left behind to suffer for the rest Of THEIR lives, for what Susan and the rest did. Think of the VICTIMS left behind for once, instead of just SUSAN. Yes, those that were slain, cannot return. BUT, the victims families are STILL HERE AND SUFFER.

4Sharon said...

and I hardly think Debra is going to be consoled knowing Susan is born again and out of prison. No, she'll think of her sister and unborn nephew who never got a second chance. For once, think of the FAMILIES LEFT TO SUFFER. Maybe some of them can forgive, but they cannot forget.

Salem said...

She's no longer Sadie Mae Glutz. That was a long time ago.
nope Savage she isnt;

as Charlie says Violet has faded.

Salem said...

Salome said...
I don't believe Susan is rehabilitated. In my opinion, she won't be until she throws herself out a window when she hears Beethoven's Symphony No.9.


LMAO
good one. no# 9 no# 9 no#9

uncle gilly said...

Yes what was susan thinking? that clear headed, admirable, rational, insightful, drug addled, manic, homicidal, blood drinking , sociopath, we expected much more from her. W.I.H. writhe in hell you worthless cunt !

don laisure said...

hi the date of birth that you have listed along with death is of my father donald leo laisure of waynesboro ga he was from orland ind
he was retired us army and is no way this man from texas we did live in texas in the 60s at fort hood ,thanks donald leo laisure ll