Tuesday, October 14, 2008

Reflections of The Way Things Used To Be


I was thinking the other day, and I thought to self, "Where does it all go off the track?" I mean at some point the TLB investigation was about solving murders and catching the culprits, not a referendum on the politics of the 1960s. Sure, the relative fame of the Tate Victims played no small part in the derailing, but they were jet setters, not really famous. A hairdresser and an actress who was thinking about giving up what was left of her small career. An heiress. Fame and money and glamor affected things, yes. But what else factored into the derailing? BUG used it for personal aggrandizement, but he had to have something to use in the first place. What?

My thoughts wandered back to something so basic, at least in today's world, that it took more than a moment to digest. Remember, there were three cases inside of a month where there was writing in blood at the crime scene. The victim's blood. Hinman in Malibu, Tate in Beverly Hills and LaBianca in Los Feliz. If this happened today the cases would be linked in less than thirty seconds. But in 1969, they weren't linked until confessions appeared MONTHS after the crime. That's weird to me. Yes all three were in different jurisdictions... but that's weird to me too, because could the killers have known that? Do you know which law enforcement arm shares which jurisdiction? Cause I sure don't.

I still believe that the key to the case lies with LaBianca motivation. Hinman was for money or drugs with a personal connection thrown in. Tate seems like drugs with a lot of wrong place wrong time. LaBianca was NOT "because True lived next door." It is too pointed, too specific. They had JUST gotten back home. Was the daughter or son in on it? It would be strange that the connection cannot be proved if so...there is always a leak. Was it drugs? It wasn't random, but 40 years later we still don't know what the connection IS.

So then the three cases essentially become Bug's. And HE cannot find the connection. So he makes up the race war shit. And we go off the track.

So is that where it happens? LaBianca? Let's look at speculation.

1- Mafia connections- if so, then how does it connect to Tate? Answer- it doesn't.
2- Bikers- The connections are there, but so what?
3- Drugs- There has been speculation that Leno was into them, that Suzan was into them, that Rosemary was into them. Okay. No proof. But let's say they were. So how does that trace back to Chatsworth? I don't see it.

Why did Tex Watson kill Leno and Rosemary LaBianca? What did they have to do with Frykowski?

That's where I think the answer lies.

19 comments:

Marliese said...

Did Suzan know Tex's girlfriend that lived on Franklin Ave in Hollywood?

Pristash said...

Good questions, Col, good things to ponder. In 1969 mass communication wasn't where it is today. Hinman was investigated by the LASO (county) because it was out in Topanga Canyon, Tate and LaBianca were LAPD cases...very quickly it was speculated that the last two were connected, but then quickly dismissed as LaBianca being just a copy cat. Why? I think it has to do with the drug angle. No drugs were found at the LaBianca's and the fact that they were middle aged average people and not Hollywood celebrities led the police not to think there was drug connection. If there was, I think they would have surely thought they were linked.

Remember, I posted this not all that long ago: Read Garrettson's polygraph again, which was conducted Sunday afternoon before the LaBianca's bodies had even been found, and they are asking him about Pic Dawson! The police had already formulated a group of suspects and they all are connected with the illicit drug trade! Just over 24 hours after the bodies at Tate had been discovered!

Policemen and women in general are a stubborn lot who are very competitive and see things very much in black and white, not a lot of grey. They size things and people up quickly and then it is very hard for them to shake their initial feelings.

My brother is a big time police guy, and he has told me numerous stories over the years about how the police can focus in very quickly on a suspect or two and then are loathe to give up on them even when the evidence is purely circumstantial at best, but then only because of a confession from a whole new suspect does it all fall into place in another direction.

I may be wrong here, so someone can correct me, but I believe that the police were finally closing in on their own on the Manson Family when at the same time they started to hear from Virginia Graham and Ronnie Howard about Susan Atkins' bedtime stories about the murders, and that it was because the LASO detectives investigating Hinman, after being rebuffed by the LAPD Tate detectives, finally got the LAPD LaBianca detectives to listen to them about a possible connection between all three cases.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

La Cosa Nostra and the 1%ers aren't just into drugs, you know. What else is illegal, and = big $$ ?

-- Ace, stuck in Iowa.

Pristash said...

Gambling?

Marliese said...

Loans? Contracts?

dgreek said...

Didn't Tex and Joe Dorgan live really close to each other at one time? It's a possibility they knew each other and had a drug connection. So maybe the connection was Tex & Suzanne/Joe Dorgan.

Brian Davis said...

"Did Suzan know Tex's girlfriend that lived on Franklin Ave in Hollywood?"

Very good question Marliese !

I've often wondered how soon the connection of the murders (writing of with the victims blood) would have been made had the cops not have been so reluctant to work with each other. As I understand it, the Tate detectives and the LaBianca detectives were not too willing to share info. And even then would it have made any differece ? I guess we'd still be here 40 years later wondering the true motive(s).

angeLos said...

Yes, some very good thoughts Col...

Those passed weeks I went for a 10 days holidays in LA from Europe, and for a few hours, I did a little drive....

...from DW house on Sunset to Cielo dr, to Portola dr, then to Chatsworth and Santa Susana pass, then to Franklin's Avenue and to Waverly Dr to Temple and Broadway...

It was a perfect early morning gorgeous sunny Southern California Sunday, very quiet, with nobody on the run and someone can not help, but think at the motivations of such crimes,
and again my impressions are the same as in my oct 2004 trip to LA ... ( I understand that some of you hold in high estim CM and are looking for some other explanation for his involvement in the crimes...maybe I miss something, but here are my thoughts...)

The most probable reasons of all this mess must have probably something to do with the psychology of CM mind ... at that time ....summer 1969...

CM perfectly knew after GH murder he was going again and for good back to jail sooner or later, the following crimes are his testament to the world..."look what I am capable of ... !!!"... "look at what You have done to me, doesn't it give equal right to do the same to You... ?"
and his definitive mark of involvement and responsability in the crimes -----> ...

...the immensly coward sneaking up the secluded and peaceful Waverly dr. Alley , torture and tying up the totally innocent and defensless Labianca couple, is the 100 % mark of his active involvement in the crimes no doubts ... and of a very sick mind ...

Pure jealousy and vengeance, against people who probably treated him like worse than a piece of s*** (Hatami and Labianca ... that's the connection, Labianca and CM had an argument before, isn't it enough ? for me yes, CM wanted to "punish" him and LLB had the bad luck of comming back from holidays that evening and CM remembered him during their sick ramblings the 10th august ...bad luck...!!! ) ...people who he met before and had had an argument with them, CM was probably treated on those 2 occasions like a Master piece of garbage ...and CM psyke was extremelly resentfull and jealous...etc...) ...that's it...point...

...nothing more ... nothing less...

...a human being at his worst ... plain sick...!!!

Nothing personal just thoughts...

here is a question ...
I heard the Beatles have been brought to court in person to testify in LA ... for the Helter Skelter song...

Is that true ... ?

deadwoodhbo said...

angeLos why do people still ride charlies shirt tails? Worse has been commited by better ......the green river killer. son of sam.the night stalker and many more henry lee lucas i wonder if you would vist his murder sites.
If you knew charlie you would know all His insane chatter is a act for people like you to invoke the kind of reaction your giveing of.
NO ONE!!!!!! but charlie will EVER! know what was in His head on that night .
And let us all remember sharon tates husband A TOP OF THE CLASS CHILD MOLESTER!!!!!!!!!!! .Yeah charlie is real BAD!!!!!!! isnt he?.
AC you reply to this post knock his socks of:P:P:P.

Pristash said...

Hey Angelos....remind me, where and when did CM have an argument with Leno LaBianca?

Pristash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
angeLos said...

Good question pristash...
That was at one of the Harold True parties nexdoor, and the music or something was loud
and LLB and CM met at that occasion and had an argument.
I have read or heard that on Youtube, I am not sure From Bret's site ?
That info has to be rechecked if someone knows better about it.

Marliese said...

Hi Brian, just realized...when I asked about Tex's girlfriend, i was thinking about Rosemary and Suzan living near Franklin in the Hollywood and Highland area before she married Leno, but Rosemary and Leno were married for nine years so it had been awhile since she lived there. I guess it's possible they could have known each other at the time of the murders though. And then the Dorgan thing too, you know?

On another note, always thought Charlie parked in front of the LaBianca house and walked up the LaBianca driveway, probably because LVH said in one of her parole hearings that she remembered seeing him walking down the driveway to the car, but read recently that he walked up the driveway to the house next door, then crossed over the yard.
Whatever the connections are, like Col said in the archives, he knew Tex would kill them.

Speaking of Charlie, does anyone know any detail about the link on Bret's site, right top, that says Charlie has cancer? There's no story with the link.

~Marliese

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Charles does not have cancer, he has Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, from a combination of smoking for 40 years, bad air in the prison, dust storms, cleaning products, and being elderly. He's fine and can still sing beautifully... must needs breathing treatments once in a while.

Marliese said...

Yes, it's been reported for years that he has copd. Since you also believe that he didn't help himself to the LaBianca home, tie them up, reassure them they wouldn't be hurt and then send Tex in to kill them, I'm curious for additional sources to confirm or deny whether he has cancer.

Their many risk factors for disease and advancing age places all of them into another passage of their lives to manage while incarcerated.

~Marliese

Heaven said...

Any news regarding Susan? I haven't heard any updates in a while..

=)

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

From Bret's Site:

"Sources close to Charles Manson claim that he is suffering from serious health problems. He underwent an operation recently because of lung complications and he is rumored to have cancer. California Department of Corrections officials have steadfastly refused to comment on this because of the confidential nature of medical records for all prisoners. Manson will turn 74 years old next month. He is incarcerated at Corcoran State Prison which is located in southern California. For security reasons he is kept seperated from the prison mainline in what is called Protective/Security Housing Unit. He shares a unit with Sirhan Sirhan and around 40 other special interest prisoners. Manson has been subject to two violent attacks by his fellow inmates in the last year."

Okay, and now for the facts:

Charles did NOT have an operation. During March, when that awful flu was going around, he got sick, and his COPD complicated things. He was put in the acute care hospital (ACH) to receive breahing treatents. He is now fine. He does NOT have cancer.

Charles is eating like a horse, visiting with friends, and helping work on an environmntal movement. He also managed to lift my fat ass off the floor. He is NOT sick. While he must use a wheelchair for long-distance travel, he's getting on well.

Charles is NOT in the SHU, Security Housing Unit, which is punishment, although he was there up 'til September. He is in the PHU, the Protected Housing Unit. This means he can have contact visits and phone calls, and access to his guitar. Sirhan is still in SHU. There are fewer than 20 inmates in the PHU. Yes, there have been some squabbles in there, but Charles was not involved. Nor has he been physically harmed by any other inmate within the past two or three years.

Geeze, Bret, stop listening to ANYthing Kenny Calihan or Homer Lewis tells you. Waste of your stamps.

Pristash said...

Bret's site has some updated info on the Manson Girls film. States that there is a new script. Col, does that mean the excerpts of the script you shared with us over the last few months no longer apply?

grimtraveller said...

Col, the truth has been before you this whole time.
It's Helter skelter, mate. Wrapped up with a couple of other things. Forget Frykowski as a big time Charlie {no pun intended}. Forget Suzan LaBerge as a matricidal druggie daughter.
It's HS. The more people keep stretching every theory this way and that in order to "find the truth" {as if internet debaters were really going to do that over and above those that were there} and discredit HS, the more you've succeeded in shining that searching light into HS.....and showing it to be viable.