Friday, February 08, 2008

Leslie Van Houten Murdering Harlot




I heard that you wanted MORE Leslie from Nellie's old site.
Why would I decline your wishes?

  • An Editorial by Bill Nelson

    The next person to have a parole hearing is Leslie Van Houten and it should take place in May, since she received a one year denial just last May 28, 1998. Having served thirty years for her participation of murder in the LaBianca home, she has the best chance for a parole date. She was charged with one count of murder and one count of conspiracy. She did not physically participate in the brutal stabbing of Leno LaBianca who was tethered in a defenseless position by Manson and Tex Watson. Leslie entered the private home without a weapon but she and Pat immediately obtained knives from the victims kitchen.

    Leslie likes to talk about starring into an empty room during the brutal stabbing and claims she only stabbed Rosemary in the lower back some sixteen times after Tex demanded she do something. She whispers softly to the assembled members of the parole board that Rosemary was already dead. It is a moot point.

    What Leslie fails to talk about is her willingness to fight, subdue, tie down, wrestle and brutalize Rosemary in the sanctity of her private residence while getting ready for bed around 2:00 A.M. on that fateful August 10, 1969 Sunday morning. She held Rosemary down while Pat tried unsuccessfully to stab the victim. Leslie struggled hard with the victim, she put a pillow case over the victims head, a lamp cord around the neck and when Rosemary was tough enough to get up off the bed at hearing the screams of husband Leno being butchered by a lying Tex Watson, she called for Tex - trustworthy killer - to finish the job the two Slippies were unable to do.

    Leslie Van Houten was more than a passive demure little obedient slave. She was an enthusiastic willing thrill seeking killer. After the blood shed, during the quietness of death, Leslie wiped down the house seeking to destroy any prints left by the killers. She did a very good job at that. There were no prints found in the house from Manson, Watson, Van Houten or Krenwinkle. Left in the wake of madness were two brutally stabbed victims, a husband and wife, and the only reason given was to start a race war between the Black and White races of America. That is why Pat took the time to write in blood on the living room wall above the front door "
    RISE", and over the wall facing that door, "DEATH TO PIGS", then on the refrigerator the misspelled words "HEALTER SKELTER". Oh, while Tex took a shower, Pat took a fork from the kitchen and stabbed the dead corpse of Leno several times. Then, in an expression of total depravity, she wobbled it, left it in the stomach wound, and is said to have remarked something like "This will freak out the children when they come to Sunday dinner tomorrow."

    There was one more thing Leslie has not talked about lately, she was angry at not being asked to participate in the massacre at the Tate/Polanski residence the night before.

    Fast forward. Thirty years later. Incarceration, three trials, remorse and a little bit of Jesus thrown into the mix, Leslie wants to go home. She has a job waiting. She has offers of financial support. Her life is pretty well together now, she is the beneficiary of a devoted following called "Friends of Leslie".

    Leslie has what Rosemary and Leno lost. There is no organization called "Friends of Rosemary" or "Friends of Leno" for they have all but been forgotten. Murdered. Dumped. Their cries for help, their pleas to live fell on deaf ears.

    W
    hy did I work with Alice LaBianca last year to present a letter to the Board of Prison Terms opposing the release of Leslie Van Houten? First of all, Alice was not manipulated to do that by me, as some friends of Leslie have suggested, far from it. Alice LaBianca is a very independent woman. She laughed when that suggestion was given to her.

    I did it because the LaBianca family needed to get beyond their grief and do something positive. The LaBianca family has been judged for having never spoken out and that changed last year. Alice did the right thing. Do I think she will once again do it this year? I think not. Will we see a LaBianca family member appear before the hearing to oppose the release of Leslie? It is doubtful. The senseless murders inside the LaBianca home thirty years ago froze the family in terror and they have never recovered. Part of that terror is their fear of the daughter of Rosemary, Ms. Suzann LaBerge, and that is a story I have not been fully told.

So what would it take for me to step aside and not oppose the parole date for Leslie Van Houten?

There is nothing Leslie Van Houten can do. I will never support her release. The motive for the murders, and the brutality of the killing should close the door to that prison entrance for ever. The only way Van Houten, Atkins or Krenwinkle should ever come out of CIW is in a pine box.

Leslie Van Houten has the right to request a parole date, she does not have a guarantee that the state is obligated to give her one. The state has the responsibility to hear her appeal each time the Board of Prison Terms assembles at the California Institute for Women for a Van Houten hearing. Each time I listen to the words of Leslie and study her demeanor during the hearing, I ask myself about the cries of the victims. But then, my mind returns to the present and I watch to see if the panel is listening or sympathetic towards the matured woman before them.

Yes, the panel has listened and they have shown interest in her progress. It gives caution to the Deputy District Attorney representing the people of the great state of California.
There are some things that I would like to see Leslie Van Houten clear up before the parole board gives her a date though. It would illustrate remorse, understanding and rehabilitation.

Did Manson and Watson enter the home together?

What does Leslie know about the claims of Gypsy that the Manson family creepy crawled the LaBianca house within two weeks of the murders?

Did she hear any questions from Tex about Leno giving him a little black book?

Does she know anything about the brass door handle ending up in the refrigerator some two weeks after the murders in the LaBianca kitchen?

What, if anything, does she know about the arrangement of logs before the fire place some two weeks after the murders?

Did Leslie know Joe Dorgan, the boyfriend of the daughter of Rosemary? Dorgan rode with Manson with other bikers.

Where did Tex hide that bayonet? My first book proved he did not throw it into the Hyperion water as he claimed.

Were the bushes they slept in near the steps leading to the freeway?

Did Leslie know Marina Habe, a female murder victim known to have visited the Spahn Ranch?

Did Leslie actually participate in the burial of the remains of Shorty Shea following his murder, as I have been told?

These are fair and logical questions for the lady anxious for a parole date. These are some of the questions I personally would like to ask Ms. Van Houten. But, I am not on the board and I am not the one to decide if she is granted her wishes for a release date.

I plan to video tape the hearing in May once again. I will be there to document and record the events as they transpire. If she receives a date I will not be surprised. If she is denied because of the new Governor Gray Davis I will not be shocked. The board who grants her a date will have to be strong and the Governor who signs off on it will have to have some rather large shoulders. The outcry would be much louder than the joy from the Friends of Leslie.
Is Leslie Van Houten a threat to society? Maybe not. But then again, neither are Rosemary and Leno LaBianca.

Footnote below:

  • VAN HOUTEN, LESLIE LOUISE F/W 5'6 brn brn 8-23-49/48 POB: Iowa
    Nicknames: Leslie DL# DD 436893 (temp)
    aka's: Sankston, Leslie Mary,
    Owens, Leslie Sue; Alexandria,
    Louella Maxwell; Alexander, Louise
    Susan
    Arrested with Manson family
    Convicted of the murders of Rosemary & Leno LaBianca.



  • One more comment from the Editorial above...3/2/99

    The parole board is allowed to ask questions about the commitment offense, the record of the inmate prior to the life crimes, the progress inside the institution, the psychological evaluation, plans for a parole date, and questions about things relating to the crimes.
    Bruce Davis was questioned about the fact he did not inform law enforcement of the burial site of Shorty Shea. Bruce Davis was asked about his opinion as to the suitability of Charles Denton "Tex" Watson to get a parole date, even though the question had nothing to do with the main line of questioning. Davis was asked about the shooting of Bernard Crow. He was not involved in the crime.
    Van Houten may be asked questions showing her suitability for a release date and that may be determined in part, by her willingness to answer related questions. These questions were raised outside the prison last year and they may be asked of Leslie at the hearing this year.

    Her defenders at any cost will have to pray Leslie is truthful, forth coming, and receptive to whatever related questions the panel decides to ask. Certainly, questions about members of the Manson family being inside the LaBianca residence within two weeks of the murders and the letters from Leno to his daughter documenting the facts are reasonable.

    T
    o the Friends Of Leslie and other sympathetic supporters of the murderers I ask, What have you done for the victim's families in your life time? Absolutely nothing!

53 comments:

Brian Davis said...

"...Fast forward. Thirty years later. Incarceration, three trials, remorse and a little bit of Jesus thrown into the mix, Leslie wants to go home. She has a job waiting. She has offers of financial support. Her life is pretty well together now, she is the beneficiary of a devoted following called "Friends of Leslie".

Leslie has what Rosemary and Leno lost. There is no organization called "Friends of Rosemary" or "Friends of Leno" for they have all but been forgotten. Murdered. Dumped. Their cries for help, their pleas to live fell on deaf ears."


I have been fortunate that my family has never been victim of murder, rape, robbery, or any violent crime...with that being said...the above highlighted really hits home.

Thanks for the post Col.
And thanks for clarifying a couple things for me previously.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Mr. Nelson said, "To the Friends Of Leslie and other sympathetic supporters of the murderers I ask, What have you done for the victim's families in your life time? Absolutely nothing!"

To Mr. Nelson's ghost, I reply: Charles has paid over $125,000 in restitution to the Frykowski family, even though he WAS NOT THERE, and did not kill anyone.

Mr. Davis comments: "I have been fortunate that my family has never been victim of murder, rape, robbery, or any violent crime..."

You are also fortunate if your family members and loved ones have never been accused of a violent crime, either. Either way, it sucks rocks.

FrankM said...

Charles has paid over $125,000 in restitution to the Frykowski family.

AC - this is extremely disingenuous, and you know it. Royalties from third party recordings of Manson material were awarded to the Frykowski family in restitution after a successful appeal by Bartek Frykowski.

To say (or imply) that Manson was party to this is more bizarre than usual for you. And in any case being in prison he wouldn't have had much choice in the matter or be able to make use of the money.

See http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE7DC153BF935A15751C1A965958260

Frank

Jean Harlow said...

Excellent post Col.

Come on A.C. The reason the money was paid to the Frykowski family was because they won a judgment against Charlie and the others. If Charlie had not been so well known maybe Guns n' Roses wouldn't have recorded his music. The reason they won a judgment against Charlie was because he was found guilty of conspiracy of the murders at Cielo Drive.

Even if you don't believe CM had anything to do with the murders beforehand or during, he knew who the killers were after the fact and he never reported that to the authorities. So at least he is guilty of obstruction of justice..you and I differ on why CM was convicted but you have to admit to the obstruction of justice charge at least.

Hi to Becca, Monk and Heaven :)

techie123 said...

brian davis said

I have been fortunate that my family has never been victim of murder, rape, robbery, or any violent crime


Unfortunately I had a family member who was brutally murdered. It is difficult to decide what is enough time served for taking a life. How exactly do we decide that this person deserves parole more than that person?

deadwoodhbo said...

Col! you do post the most awesome things ,thank you for donateing your time to this blog,its a real pleasure to be part of it .

Brian Davis said...

Techie123 said, "Unfortunately I had a family member who was brutally murdered. It is difficult to decide what is enough time served for taking a life. How exactly do we decide that this person deserves parole more than that person?

Tech, I am sorry to hear that friend.
I don't know how long ago that happened to your family but it doesn't matter, my condolences and prayers to you and your family.

I wish I knew how to decide who deserves parole more than another or even if they deserve parole at all. I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions.

One thing for sure tho...as stated..there will definitely be no parole for Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Voytek Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Steven Parent, Rosemary and Leno LaBianca, and countless other victims including sadly, your family member. GOD Bless you and your family.

agnostic monk said...

Obstruction of justice in Charlie's world was "don't snitch, or else." I would imagine that quite a few people could have been charged and convicted of obstruction of justice if the prosecution had so wanted to go forward with that, including Charlie, Linda, Clem, Gypsy, Brenda, Sandy, Squeaky, Bruce, etc.

Although I'm not sure how easy it is to prove that someone knew something and chose not to report it.

Jean Harlow said...

Monky, Monky, monk....

I think that CM was guilty of more than obstruction and you are right a case could be made against any of them but... I thought I'd be a sport to AC and say hey at least he is guilty of this..

The fact that Charlie was on parole meant he shouldn't have been going into other people's house and tying them up and telling others "make sure they don't know you are going to kill them"... but what do I know :p

agnostic monk said...

good point Jean, hey the fact that charlie was on parole meant that he shouldn't have been hanging out in a place where people were carrying around knives, guns, bayonets, illegal drugs; a place occupied by other people with criminal pasts, including some not so very stable college-aged kids that were constantly getting raided by the police; he shouldn't have been entering the homes of known drug dealers with swords and pistols. looking back one has to wonder how the guy couldn't have known that he was in the middle of a ticking time bomb. and he acts like he is a victim, thrown into this mess by outside forces?

wait, weren't we talking about leslie? how did we get back on charlie? charlie, charlie, charlie!

Jean Harlow said...

oh monky.. that's why I love you so LOL

Well Leslie shouldn't have been at the ranch hanging out with twice divorced, parolees or bikers or that stuff... she was a home coming queen for crying out loud!! My mum would have tanned my ass I did half the things Leslie did before the Labiancas were killed... hell she would have dragged by my ear to the police station to give me up LOL... but I digress...

Col., I know Bobby admits to his crime etc. but has he, to your knowledge, ever apologized to the Hinman family?

kiss to monk

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

My condolences to you, Techie, on the loss of your loved one.

Frank & Jean: Dealing with residual payments for creative property is something I do know a bit about. You make it sound like G-n-R just dropped into his lap. Not true.

Cheryl Crowe took an obscure poem and turned it into a hit song about having fun on Santa Monica Boulevard. The original artist made beaucoup bucks... as well he should.

I will only bore you with a lesson on contract law for musical artists if you really want (most won't).

Charles did not fight young Mr. Frykowski's civil judgment (not an appeal, and yeah, there is a difference); anyway, he just blew it off. The money *could have* been donated to other causes (cough *ATWA* cough).

If in my wilder days, if I'd've been stabbed to death while brokering certain tax-free commodities, my kids wouldn't have received a dime from the perp. As has been pointed out previously, it's a dangerous profession, with no insurance, and there are few incidents of merchandise distributors' families being the recipients of wrongful death suits. Mr. Frykowski's was the exception, not the rule.

That said, does anyone else know if any of the perps had to make restitution payments? Including Mr. BeauSoleil, who was also a creative artist prior to the Unfortunate Incidents? Any of his residuals go to the Hinman family? How about Leslie? Did Sadie's book royalties go to her victims' families, or to her legalized prosthelytizing?

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Oops, not quite through running my mouth yet.

Jean said: "Well Leslie shouldn't have been at the ranch hanging out with twice divorced, parolees or bikers or that stuff... she was a home coming queen for crying out loud!!"

Your class-ism is showing, Jean. So it would've been okay for an impoverished young woman from a disfunctional family? Or just expected?

Jean Harlow said...

Your class-ism is showing, Jean. So it would've been okay for an impoverished young woman from a disfunctional family? Or just expected?


Sorry AC, it wasn't classism - it was sarcasm... which I should know by now doesn't translate well when written...

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Sorry, Jean, I'm a little slooow on the uptake lately.

Pestering people again: Anyone know if Mr. Van Houten was in the military service or a contractor to the military? Or if he somehow knew Mr. LaBianca?

angeLos said...

techie123
my condoleances to you , something similar would hapened to me , not sure how I would react...maybe turn up in some kind of Mad Max, or be very sad...

@Jean Harlow
hello and thank you to try to make AC to addmit something about CM beside that he is so missunderstood etc...

techie123 said...

Thanks Brian, AC and Angelos. It gives me a little perspective on why the family members show up at the parole hearings year after year. The biggest issue for me personally is my parents. I want to make sure my mother never has to worry about running into her son's murderer on the street. When she passes away I probably won't object to the guy getting paroled if that is what the board chooses to do.

LVH is certainly going to have to do better than "I stabbed a woman who was probably dead because Tex told me to" if she ever hopes to get out. Even after she accepts full responsibility, it will take a parole board with a lot of guts to release her.

augusteigth1969 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pristash said...

Just in case anybody cares: I finished SWAY yesterday. Pretty good and interesting read.

FrankM said...

I don't think I can take any more of August's pointless and pusillanimous ramblings. The childish tittle-tattle and gratuitous bad language interfere with my digestion.

I've really enjoyed the educated conversation I've had here, even with AC, but this is not what I wanted or want.

My problem, August, for being an aesthete, but I'll take a break. Skip on, over and out. Maybe someone can send me an email when it's safe to come back.

I hope Col understands.

I love you all (well most of you!)

Frank

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Gracious sakes alive, I turn my back for but a brief moment, and all heck breaks loose. I'd thought that CSP Corcoran was a live-action soap opera, yet this latest development rivals even the hallowed halls of that august institution (pun intended).

August, if you are going to provoke us with the promise of pussilimous profanity and gallons of gratuitous gossip, at least have the decency to post the offending blog's address! Cuz, like, I truly enjoy craning my neck at the accident as I drive by. Hee hee.

In all seriousness: Techie, if the perpetrator offered a sincere apology to your loved ones, would it do anything to assuage your family's pain? Too little, too late?

techie123 said...

Heaven
You know I'm with you hun.

AC
It has been 17 years so I am o.k. with it. My mom on the other hand is not. I don't know if she ever will be. He has yet to be seriously considered for parole. When he does we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

Heaven said...

Thank you Techie, I appreciate it!!

=)

Jean Harlow said...

ok, I have lots of little notes..

Angelos.... thanks for the encouragement... :)

Pritash - cool... would you say it was worth the read?

August 8th - whatever...I believe that Heaven has dealt with your comment with far more eloquence then I ever could :)

Frankie... don't go ... you bring a view to the blog that the others don't and I appreciate your contributions as do the others... if you think this is bad you should have been here before..

Monky... where are you...
Hi to Becca, Brian, Birds, 60s and Kay and of course, mon Colonel

Jean Harlow said...

oh and Techie... I never replied to you but anything I could possibly say would be so little in comparison...

When I was a child, my brother's friend was killed by his father who also killed his mother and younger brother and before turning the gun on himself..

the impact I felt from such a distance was devastating so I could not even begin to imagine all that you have gone through...my condolences on your loss of your brother

Heaven said...

Oh Jean that is terrible!!

Techie, my condolences are with you as well!

*hugs to ya both*!!

=)

Pristash said...

Yes, I enjoyed SWAY quite a bit. It fits right in with the literature of late that deals with, shall I say, late 60s Southern California Popular Culture, such as it is (was). It is much more about Kenneth Anger and the Rolling Stones than it is about Bobby Beausoleil, and there are no new, even fictional revelations. The author, as authors are wont, has changed some of the real life details of the events in order to fit into his narrative, so purists beware, but I found it very worthwhile.

Pristash said...

Now, if only John Kaye will get back on the stick and write another sequel to "Stars Screaming" and "The Dead Circus," maybe we'll be getting somewhere with this case...

Jean Harlow said...

hey pritash...

do tell about John Kaye...

Marliese said...

I also enjoyed Sway...the author's writing style is very appealing and the fact vs fiction very subtle...thankfully not a lot of wild imagination. Honestly, we've probably all read more nonfiction about these times that contains more fiction than this little book.

It's almost painful to be a fly on the wall though, so I sort of wonder what Mr. Beausoleil's opinion of the book would be, some 39 years after the events...
but the author sure has a deelish writing style.

Marliese said...

augusteigth1969 said...
Will post more gossip as it comes in.


Thanks for the updates August. Nothing better than the truth to expose dumb as dirt hypocrites.

Marliese said...

techie123 said...
Thanks Brian, AC and Angelos. It gives me a little perspective on why the family members show up at the parole hearings year after year. The biggest issue for me personally is my parents. I want to make sure my mother never has to worry about running into her son's murderer on the street. When she passes away I probably won't object to the guy getting paroled if that is what the board chooses to do.

LVH is certainly going to have to do better than "I stabbed a woman who was probably dead because Tex told me to" if she ever hopes to get out. Even after she accepts full responsibility, it will take a parole board with a lot of guts to release her.



Techie, my heart goes out to you and your family. I admire your compassion for your Mother...I can't begin to imagine her pain.
And couldn't agree more...Leslie Van Houten has always needed to do better than I stabbed a woman that was already dead etc etc etc.

Pristash said...

Hey, Jean Harlow,

John Kaye is a screenwriter who has written two books, both mentioned in my earlier post. It is the second, "The Dead Circus" which deals with Manson as one of the characters, Alice, was once a member of the Family. Both books are pretty good and Kaye grew up in LA and has lived there all his life, so I like to think that perhaps he has heard things over the years about the case that maybe have influenced his writing.

BTW, the title, "The Dead Circus" is explained in the book as being the name of a catalogue where people could buy Manson related memorabilia...oh those pre-internet innocent days of the 70s! Anybody know out there whether or not that was a real thing?

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

BTW, the title, "The Dead Circus" is explained in the book as being the name of a catalogue where people could buy Manson related memorabilia...oh those pre-internet innocent days of the 70s! Anybody know out there whether or not that was a real thing?

Yes, but it wasn't called that... can't recall the name.

deadwoodhbo said...

FrankM said...
I don't think I can take any more of August's pointless and pusillanimous ramblings. The childish tittle-tattle and gratuitous bad language interfere with my digestion.

I've really enjoyed the educated conversation I've had here, even with AC, but this is not what I wanted or want.

My problem, August, for being an aesthete, but I'll take a break. Skip on, over and out. Maybe someone can send me an email when it's safe to come back.

I hope Col understands.

I love you all (well most of you!)

Frank

Frank you cant leave us because of such silly things please stay

deadwoodhbo said...

CALLING FRANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET YOUR ASS BACK ON THIS BLOG!!!!!please

Heaven said...

Hello? Is anyone alive out there! lol

Marliese I sent you an email...

How ya doing Becca? Hope all is well..

=)

Marliese said...

Yeah, where is everyone?
Happy Valentine's Day!

Heaven, I don't see any mail...let me know, and I'll send you another address.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

If we may return to the subject of the cadaver dogs for a moment...

From the Inyo newspaper last week: "Desert ranch holding Manson Family secrets?"

http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/84991/

Also there was something about it on T.V. on Channel Four last night, in the San Diego area... I'm not sure what the affiliate is (CBS, NBC whatever).

Friends of mine who live in the area wrote to me to make me aware of the media coverage.

Pristash said...

http://www.knbc.com/index.html

I was able to view the video at the website above.

"Kay" said...

techie123 said...

"Unfortunately I had a family member who was brutally murdered. It is difficult to decide what is enough time served for taking a life. How exactly do we decide that this person deserves parole more than that person?"


I am deeply saddened to read this, Techie. It is difficult for everyone when faced with the loss of a loved one but to lose someone this way is horrible.

I think there are many things to consider before allowing someone to be paroled. Every case is different and IMO, one set rule cannot be applied in a blanket fashion.

As far as Manson and any of his followers are concerned, I don't think any of them should ever be paroled. Since they were originally sentenced to death, when California reinstated the DP, I think that sentence should have been carried out.

Again...My heartfelt sympathies go out to you.

Kay

"Kay" said...

Frank said:

"My problem, August, for being an aesthete, but I'll take a break. Skip on, over and out. Maybe someone can send me an email when it's safe to come back."

At another time Frank also said:

"Live and let live, Becca - the joys of a blog are that people of widely differing views can express them. And that surely has to be better than world in which everyone toes the party line or live in fear of the consequences."


Contradicting POV's, don't you think?

My point is....When you are in a public forum there are bound to be messages posted that will not be of interest to everyone. It's just the way it goes. It's very easy to scroll past something that is not your cup of tea.

IMO, unless you learn to ignore things that bother you, it is never going to be safe for you to return.

I've enjoyed some of your posts. I haven't enjoyed all of them but I wouldn't think of telling or even suggesting that you stop posting about whatever you choose to talk about.

Please know I am not trying to be a bitch about this. I'm merely speaking my mind.

That is, after all, why we're all here, isn't it?

Kay

Brian Davis said...

Kay wrote, in regards to Manson and the jailed Family, "...Since they were originally sentenced to death, when California reinstated the DP, I think that sentence should have been carried out."

I love that. I don't understand why the DP was not reinstated for them since , as you pointed out, it was the original sentence. It really should be reinstated.

Now, if someone is convicted while the DP was ablosished, got life, then the DP was reinstated, then no DP for that convict.

But in this case, I agree with you there.

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pristash said...

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think how it goes is this...the California Death Penalty Law, under which CM and his minions were convicted, was ruled unconstitutional as written and applied in the early 70s, so everyone still around who had been convicted under such was granted a sentence of life with the possibility of parole.

It is impossible for anyone of these people to be given the DP unless they are re-tried for something new (bodies at Barker Ranch?) because they can't again be tried for the original murders they are already convicted of...the law simply doesn't allow it.

And even these new wave of DP laws are under some stress...here in the Great State of New York a new DP law was instituted under Gov Pataki, but remains unused because it is believed that it will again be ruled unconstitutional.

Peace.

Jean Harlow said...

Ironically, according to Bret's site:

http://www.mansonfamilytoday.info/latest-news.htm

Leslie has filed a writ of habeas corpus and some other writ. She did it before Susan filed hers...

Col. how often is a habeas corpus writ actually successful? I would think that it is a long shot.

Kay, I think the whole overruling of the DP in the California case was a crap shoot. The TLB killers are an extreme case ... along with most serial/spree killers and the law was not aimed at them and really since only Clem has been paroled it is sort of a moot point to me...

JMHO

Hi Monk, Heaven, Brian and Pritash they have the Dead Circus at the local library so I am going to take it out... thanks

jm30 said...

Hello friends. I HAVE been following your posts on and off, but I seem to have become a victim of the flu epidemic that was going around my school. So, I have taken a break from even thinking about some of this stuff.

My position on LVH and the other girls is pretty clear. We can debate this stuff until the LaBianca's rise from the dead, but I just don't think any parole board or governor would want to have a "family" parolee on their watch. They're all probably going to experience quiet and peaceful deaths inside a cell or a prison hospice.

There will be no blood writings on walls. No cut telephone wires. No pillowcase costumes. No lamp cords. No body carvings. No sidewalk vigils.

Just obscure, little-noticed, and uncelebrated deaths and thus the rightful ends to such tragic wastes of full productive lives...of both the victims and the perps.

angeLos said...

jm30 said...

There will be no blood writings on walls.

Yes , and who's strange idea was it at the start... at GH murder scene ?
Somebody knows ?
CM ?

Marliese said...

Hi Angelos, I think Atkins fingerpainted the bloody paw on the wall at Hinman's, supposedly hoping to leave a calling card from the black panthers.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

jm30 said... "There will be no blood writings on walls."

And Angelos replied: "Yes , and who's strange idea was it at the start... at GH murder scene ?
Somebody knows ?
CM ?"

Doubt it. Hasn't Mr. BeauSoleil stated that the political graffiti was his idea? He seems far more literary-minded than Charles... who *still* cannot spell "political" correctly.

angeLos said...

hello marliese and AC

yes SA did that probably, but who had that idea ...SA ?
this is something so strange to do, it must have been seen or prepared before...
someone must be real sick to do that and AC doubt it was CM...
very interesting that means it could be a CM idea...
someone knows the answer ?

Marliese said...

Hi again Angelos,
It might be another of those things where we get different answers from different people..they just don't give consistent answers why a lot took place and they all change their stories so much. But...I have read the interview of Beausoleil's from years ago where he claims to have told the girls (probably Sadie since in the same interview he says Mary B was scared witless that day) to write something political because of Gary's interest in communism... hoping to steer the blame that way.

And Sadie claims the paw was to blame the panthers, but I don't know if she came up with that on her own or if it sounded good later. They all lie so who knows...