tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post1895207469815083441..comments2023-11-03T03:18:55.138-07:00Comments on Official Tate-LaBianca Murders Blog: Sadie Doesn't StopColScotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-64533620741340444472008-08-01T09:28:00.000-07:002008-08-01T09:28:00.000-07:00It's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situa...It's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation. One doesn't attend ones parole hearing, it looks as though one has an attitude problem. Which can not only result in negative consequences regarding parole, but in loss of programming points, and possibly counselling and pysch profiles and other unpleasant side effects within the prison system. <BR/><BR/>"Some of you seem to feel you need to be polite and shit to me - I appreciate it - but be yourselves..." suggested Colonel Scott.<BR/><BR/>Ourselves are always polite, oh mighty Colonel. If we weren't polite, then our white gloves, pillbox hats and cucumber sandwiches would be revoked by the Please and Thankyou Fairy. <BR/><BR/>And if we weren't polite, we might sound like some of Susan Atkins's entourage, who are not very polite people at all. In fact, they are terribly impolite in writing, on letterhead stationery. Which is not only woefully incorrect, but annoys Jesus, because he supposedly stated in that book which they like to quote, that one should forgive ones enemies, and love one another, and stuff like that. Even if ones enemy happens to be Charles Manson.<BR/><BR/>There's also something in there about bearing false witness, but I will save that for another lecture.A.C. Fisher Aldaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09037549489100226097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-4221444585178601782008-08-01T04:30:00.000-07:002008-08-01T04:30:00.000-07:00No offense taken. It's a good discussion &...No offense taken. It's a good discussion & there are no absolutes. I would suggest Pat not bother to attend her upcoming hearing...if there ever was a smidgen of a chance before...there is no chance in hell now. Never gonna happen.(not even if she's on her death bed). The only purpose the hearings seem to serve, is publicity ops for Debra at this point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-57007593070838903152008-07-31T20:28:00.000-07:002008-07-31T20:28:00.000-07:00LilI think the problem is the whole nature of the ...Lil<BR/><BR/>I think the problem is the whole nature of the parole system. If someone is given a sentence that includes parole (however theoretical the possibilities might be), why would you want to think badly of them for attending a parole board?<BR/><BR/>You say jumping at every opportunity. I don't see it this way. If she is given a sentence that has the word parole in it, then is she not just exercising her right in attending the parole hearing and presenting herself in what she sees as the best light possible? The opposite seems to imply some huge moral absolute that would have her refraining from doing so for some greater good. <BR/><BR/>I agree these are not easy questions - moral issues rarely are unless you are deeply religious - but I still feel that if a sentence was handed down with the possibility of parole you can't hold it against a prisoner who attempts to use the hearing to obtain their release. Otherwies IMHO you're playing God.<BR/><BR/>No offense intended.<BR/><BR/>FrankFrankMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929422641281493764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-47883932997574200642008-07-31T18:27:00.000-07:002008-07-31T18:27:00.000-07:00Frank says; "After 37 years in the slammer I think...Frank says; <BR/>"After 37 years in the slammer I think most of us would do anything at all to get out; grasp any straw, however flimsy, or any legal recourse or loophole, however tenuous. Something to do with the survival instinct." <BR/><BR/>Frank, for sure, (I know, you know this already) but ...Col's point was she has jumped at every opportunity for Parole since she <BR/>1st became eligible..not just after these 37 years. I know it's not her requesting it this time (no doubt). I, at this time am not sure where I stand after reading so much from both points of view. I guess if we put the $ issue aside... then definitely she serves life, regardless of her illness. I'm good with that. I do wonder tho, what opinion there is on Pat? I know there is a pending parole hearing(sometime this year?)..but my question is, to all, didn't Pat become "contrite"? by not attending her hearings, accepting her responsibility? Perhaps, if we were to follow this logic...if she's offered release is that Ok in everyone's opinion?'LilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-14539460681799711492008-07-25T06:53:00.000-07:002008-07-25T06:53:00.000-07:00More on the cost of caring for Susan Atkins:http:/...More on the cost of caring for Susan Atkins:<BR/><BR/>http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5420251&page=1starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-92179751089828913992008-07-25T06:44:00.000-07:002008-07-25T06:44:00.000-07:00Hey, Marliese, you know what? I just thought abou...Hey, Marliese, you know what? I just thought about it and realized that I don't even know if NY State has that same law or not about the Gov having the final say for parole. It's possible we do, and yes I pay god awful high property taxes and income taxes to the Great State of New York, so I guess I owe the people of California an apology for thinking my state system superior.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes I talk out of the wrong side of my body.starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-91006889068181046742008-07-25T03:47:00.000-07:002008-07-25T03:47:00.000-07:00California's governor doesn't have the power witho...<I>California's governor doesn't have the power without the authority to do so, which was given to him by voters of California approving the amendment to the state constitution allowing the governor final say.</I><BR/><BR/>Can't resist the temptation to quote Aristotle and/or Joseph de Maistre (sorry, Marliese), who said that "Every nation has the government it deserves." For nation here, read State - but the maxim is surely the same.<BR/><BR/>But then I'm on the Eastern Seaboard. Although NY State is not without blame in this respect either - and like Californians, if we knew what the people we elect would get up to we probably wouldn't elect them.<BR/><BR/>Though how anyone would vote for the Terminator is beyond me. Perhaps its all that fresh air and surf.<BR/><BR/>FrankFrankMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929422641281493764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-26435107999874380972008-07-24T23:01:00.000-07:002008-07-24T23:01:00.000-07:00Uncle Charlie can come live with me:P Hi heaven go...Uncle Charlie can come live with me:P Hi heaven good to see you have a great weekend.Wheres Brian?well this is for you Brian hehe<BR/>Great post Col thank you.<BR/>Oh and please stop calling atkins a manson follower its not so.deadwoodhbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08833243029692385071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-22111385576424312182008-07-24T14:20:00.000-07:002008-07-24T14:20:00.000-07:00I can sure understand your opinion and feeling tha...I can sure understand your opinion and feeling that way if you don't like the politics of California and its resident voters, Pristash. :)<BR/><BR/>Otoh, re tax rates, I believe New York State generally ranks higher on average than the Great State of California, especially in property tax. We certainly wouldn't be able to afford the taxes on our property if it were taxed at NYS rates, then again it wouldn't have the same assessed value either. <BR/><BR/>Our sneaky little per gallon gas taxes are a bitch though, no thanks to our former no parole ever if you kill someone governor that was booted, Gray Davis. And we love our cars and freeways. :)Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-51229480616962482522008-07-24T13:45:00.000-07:002008-07-24T13:45:00.000-07:00Just another reason, Marliese, that I am glad I do...Just another reason, Marliese, that I am glad I don't pay taxes to the Great State of California.starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-32756423207373920092008-07-24T11:52:00.000-07:002008-07-24T11:52:00.000-07:00Pristash said... I am a consensus kind of guy and ...Pristash said... I am a consensus kind of guy and if the board was ever convinced but then one person felt it not politically expedient, let's say, in this case Gov Terminator as AC calls him , then are we really living in the home of the free? Sounds more like the Chinese Politburo to me.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Well, speaking of consensus and the home of the free, California's governor doesn't have the power without the authority to do so, which was given to him by voters of California approving the amendment to the state constitution allowing the governor final say.Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-36795172823427143072008-07-24T07:36:00.000-07:002008-07-24T07:36:00.000-07:00Col says:After 8 murder convictions I would shut t...Col says:<BR/><BR/><I>After 8 murder convictions I would shut the fuck up and be happy to be alive. THEN if someone asked I would says sure, let me go if you think I am worthy.<BR/>Instead she tells US that she is worthy. Fuck her.</I><BR/><BR/>After 37 years in the slammer I think most of us would do anything at all to get out; grasp any straw, however flimsy, or any legal recourse or loophole, however tenuous. Something to do with the survival instinct.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I do agree with others here that the parole system is totally fucked up. It's clear that parole is never going to happen for anyone in this celebrity-tainted case, so why do they bother having parole board hearings at all? Moving a moment from Susan to LVH (another of Col's favorites), when Kay says: "Van Houten's reputation as an ideal prisoner should not affect the decision [of the parole board}", he is albeit ironically nicely summing up the pointlessness of the parole process.<BR/><BR/>In June 2002 Judge Krug ruled that the Board of Prison Terms 'needed to explore Van Houten's prison behavior in greater depth and provide information on what she must do to win her freedom'. Hooray! A sudden and unexpected breath of common sense. But what happened there? Zilch.<BR/><BR/>I have great difficulty accepting that the politics of all this should be allowed to outweigh the legality. Back in the 60's when I was a student we used to fight against this sort of thing - now my generation is in its own sixties we just accept it. Can it be that the baby boomers have become soft and spineless and today’s students have no ideals? Should I look out my combat boots (about the only bit of clothing that will still fit me)?<BR/><BR/>I hate to be seen as a supporter of Susan or LVH (and am emphatically not) but I do despise the crazy system that allows them (and particularly Leslie) to go through these regular parole board hearing farces whose outcome is so hopeless. Its so, well, un-American.<BR/><BR/>FrankFrankMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929422641281493764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-84261839086100031212008-07-24T07:08:00.000-07:002008-07-24T07:08:00.000-07:00Yes, so I am reading Greg King's book (for the fir...Yes, so I am reading Greg King's book (for the first time, yes I am embarrased)and it has some summaries of the psychiatric reports that go with the parole hearings and Tex and SA don't come out well at all. This was back in the 90s so I don't know if anything may have changed of late.<BR/><BR/>Another thing is, and this is something I really don't like on principle, is that Doris Tate worked to have the law changed in California so that if the parole board does indeed let someone out, the Governor has the ability to unilaterally over rule and deny the parole. Call me crazy but I am a consensus kind of guy and if the board was ever convinced but then one person felt it not politically expedient, let's say, in this case Gov Terminator as AC calls him , then are we really living in the home of the free? Sounds more like the Chinese Politburo to me.<BR/><BR/>And Col, because I live here, I too drink alot in NY. All the time.starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-40894885602764559862008-07-23T22:30:00.000-07:002008-07-23T22:30:00.000-07:00Pristash said... I'm sorry, folks, but why we as a...Pristash said... I'm sorry, folks, but why we as a society continue this charade of a parole system is beyond me. Anyone sentenced to the possibility of parole should be able to earn their parole regardless of their crime. To have it, and have people fulfill all the obligations for meeting parole, over a period of DECADES, but then be denied because, well, you were hangin with that scary Manson cat, is just wrong. SA wasn't that far off in her political prisoner lawsuit, in my opinion.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>That's not the law though. The law is that parole can be denied "based solely on the commitment offense" so long as the parole board cites "evidence of aggravating facts and circumstances that cannot be argued in court" ...the facts and circumstances of the commitment crimes.Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-84144020980545107522008-07-23T19:42:00.000-07:002008-07-23T19:42:00.000-07:00I dunno, but it seems to me that this shouldn't be...I dunno, but it seems to me that this shouldn't be about our personal feelings about 'Susan Atkins'<BR/><BR/>Putting people through the absurd cruelty of a parole process with no real chance of release just further discredits an already debased 'justice' system.<BR/><BR/>How can you win before the parole board? <BR/><BR/>Prisoner:"Contrite!" <BR/><BR/>Everybody else:"Liar!"<BR/><BR/>... it's a preordained farce.<BR/><BR/>I don't think the State should respond to cruelty with cruelty. Vengeance isn't Justice when it comes from the State, it's vicarious cruelty."Dirty hands" for all of us.<BR/><BR/>With contrition,<BR/><BR/>Paulpaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16853574553787013608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-65364874586366386912008-07-23T18:20:00.000-07:002008-07-23T18:20:00.000-07:00Oh Col, you know we love you lolI sent you a coupl...Oh Col, you know we love you lol<BR/><BR/>I sent you a couple of things in your email while you were away...<BR/><BR/>Did you bring me back anything from New York?? lol<BR/><BR/>=)Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07391086783053721287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-24490897606111003732008-07-23T17:53:00.000-07:002008-07-23T17:53:00.000-07:00pristashI was in NY all last week and drank a lot ...pristash<BR/>I was in NY all last week and drank a lot so I may not be making sense.<BR/>My point I will try to clarify.<BR/><BR/>The only way I would consider letting Stumpy out is if she really was contrite. Not ill- who cares? Old people die in prison all the time. Money is NOT an issue- neither is retribution. If she were fucking sorry for what she did and could convince me I would consider letting her out. Maybe.<BR/><BR/>So they I say to myself, "Self, how could she show me she was contrite" and self answers- "By not trying to get out every fucking chance she gets. By not filing writs and appeals and shit. YES she is in prison and yes it sucks and yes it is because of her notoriety- but I would consider letting her out if she were contrite and bitch is SO NOT CONTRITE. <BR/><BR/>Is that clearer?<BR/><BR/>And anyway it is just me- I don't make the decision anyways.<BR/><BR/>PS- some of you seem to feel you need to be polite and shit to me- I appreciate it- but be yourselves- I had to limit member ship because ass monkeys would come over here and start shit- at one point Mark Turner sent vandals etc. No one has ever been banned from here for disagreeing with me. Some loser named Jempud tried to make it her blog and she got kicked out but feel free to hate me. Just be contrite afterwards!ColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-15176154810599651532008-07-23T14:03:00.000-07:002008-07-23T14:03:00.000-07:00Pristash said... Ok, clarification: It's her Docto...Pristash said... <BR/>Ok, clarification: It's her Doctors that are on the payroll of the California Department of Corrections, not SA's family.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Does that mean her doctors are contracted by the state to provide care to inmates, and they would be paid no matter which prisoner they're treating?Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-4275922726333346232008-07-23T13:59:00.000-07:002008-07-23T13:59:00.000-07:00Re the expenses, if she's no longer undergoing sur...Re the expenses, if she's no longer undergoing surgery and cancer therapy or being treated by specialists, and no longer in an acute care hospital...rumour has it she's in a skilled nursing facility, just what is costing millions? Not hospice nursing care and pain meds. Are the state guards paid any differently than if their shift was at the prison?<BR/><BR/>I prefer what Jay Sebring's nephew said...that speaking of this in terms of cost efficiency "trivializes the lives of the victims" and the lifelong impact of these murders on their families...Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-40748010942809629632008-07-23T13:47:00.000-07:002008-07-23T13:47:00.000-07:00Thanks, Col. Especially for the thoughts part.Thanks, Col. Especially for the thoughts part.Marliesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920353129039798997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-54523368035008288782008-07-23T13:26:00.000-07:002008-07-23T13:26:00.000-07:00Ok, clarification: It's her Doctors that are on t...Ok, clarification: It's her Doctors that are on the payroll of the California Department of Corrections, not SA's family.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-14198028416848808042008-07-23T13:24:00.000-07:002008-07-23T13:24:00.000-07:00A couple of things:By my count, this is the only r...A couple of things:<BR/><BR/>By my count, this is the only request for compassionate release made by SA per se. The first requests were made by her doctors -because of the grave condition she is in plus the fact that her family has the resources to care for her on their own dime - who all apparently are on the payroll of the California Department of Corrections, so like if she is faking it we have a whole new conspiracy to ponder and post on blogs about.<BR/><BR/>I mean, really, people, I know this case makes us all crazy but let's all take a deep breath and get a grip.<BR/><BR/>Col, I'm not sure I quite get your position. SA was sentenced to death...the DP was ruled unconstitutional...she was then re-sentenced to life with the possibility of parole (or was it 7 years to life with the possibility of parole?) Anyway, she is going to die soon anyway. As for the money vs. the principle, I quote:<BR/><BR/>"Sometimes standing on rigid ceremony is a waste of everyone's time and money. Requiring a cancer victim to die in prison on the public's dime for symbolic purposes does nothing for public safety or crime prevention, and we have better things to spend the money on in these difficult times." Sorry, Col, I'm sure you and your supermodel wife are raking in the bucks, but not so for alot of the rest of us. Aren't the property taxes pretty high out there in SoCal? Anyway, the money is no small thing, and why does it not ring true to you? When my mother, a cancer victim died at 76 a few years back, you would not believe the hospital bill. All covered, but my God the money spent on her was freaking unbelievable, and she didn't need round the clock guards either who all, by the way, are pulling down overtime to be there.<BR/><BR/>Principles are dandy. I am reminded of one of the most often used reasons supporters of the death penalty use: It is a deterrent to crime. Ok, if that's true, then let's just make it the punishment for EVERYTHING! That oughta work!<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, folks, but why we as a society continue this charade of a parole system is beyond me. Anyone sentenced to the possibility of parole should be able to earn their parole regardless of their crime. To have it, and have people fulfill all the obligations for meeting parole, over a period of DECADES, but then be denied because, well, you were hangin with that scary Manson cat, is just wrong. SA wasn't that far off in her political prisoner lawsuit, in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Jesus Christ, she has spent almost 39 years in prison, yes deservedly so, but after all those years, and a bedridden one legged brain cancer victim can't get parole, then it truly is vengeance more than justice we are interested in.<BR/><BR/>Ok, have at it! I can take it, I promise.starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-32193727373930371932008-07-23T12:57:00.000-07:002008-07-23T12:57:00.000-07:00I still don't see what all of the fuss is about.Di...I still don't see what all of the fuss is about.Did everyone think all lifers die of "old age" in their sleep?I don't believe Sadie was ever that close to her "real" family.zoomjawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17305670048031550927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-74309092264801019122008-07-23T12:30:00.000-07:002008-07-23T12:30:00.000-07:00Thank you Col..=)Thank you Col..<BR/><BR/>=)Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07391086783053721287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14352935.post-13458472188251202782008-07-23T12:14:00.001-07:002008-07-23T12:14:00.001-07:00Col...now that you have clarified your absolutist ...Col...now that you have clarified your absolutist position on the issue, I can respectfully agree to disagree. But at least you are firm in your convictions. I feel more pragmatic about it from a fiscal perspective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com