Monday, January 09, 2006

More On the Nimrods












In the comments section we get a great story I wanted to bump up front for future reference.
I colored RED things to pay close attention to, and asterixed my replies....

1965opinion said...

Here's my take on the 'Debra situation'. I've heard all the stories over the years and if I had one or two concerns it would be one, heavy handedness over some groups(KTS) and various fan boards. Two, sitting and waiting... to see if, through CMG the plans for Sharon materialize.*

If I were Debra I would be building bridges with an active boards/groups. Every member is a potential parole letter writer, and also a voter. Patti seemed, from what I've read, to work well in role of diplomat. *

The whole 'oogler' situation was explained as editing by the TV production crew. Debra too was horrified by the way it came out/across. Both Robin Olsen(love her or hate her)and Sharon's cousin Pam Turner explained this to various boards, groups.

As far as making money on Sharon's image I hope Debra makes millions. Why shouldn't the Tate family make money? Nobody questions the Presleys or the heirs to the Monroe estate?(A drug overdose and a sucide/murder?)* But everything do with Sharon is 2nd guessed. Except of course when alternative rock stars want to call themselves by the name of the man her arrainged her murder. *

Who knows why Debra chose not to be publicly active during the years prior to the death of her mother and sister? It took Doris ten years to complete her mourning and become and activist. Maybe it took Debra longer?* I can't imagine if I was 16 I'd recover from a shock like the murder of a sibling in even 20 years. Let alone face the public with a crusade for justice?

And yes calling yourself 'The Big Oogler', especially when the situation had been explained IS cruel.

Everyone wants Debra to be active in ways like her mother and sister but why should she want to reach out to various boards/groups? You treat her like shit.*

*- but to clarify, Debra doesn't owe anyone shit. The mistake she made with KTS et al was trying to exert legal authority over pictures she doesn't own and throwing her weight around with the Yahoo wimps. BUT BUT BUT she is the victim here, not the KTS people and is allowed to do what she wants concerning her family. If she overextends her legal rights the KTS people can agree to respect her or not, but this gives them no right to criticize.

*- but again, she has no obligation to reach out. She doesn't even HAVE to show up for parole hearings- if Bobby didn't get out the others aren't. What she does is her business.

*- or James Dean which CMG controls- a car crash

*- sorry, Charlie did NOT arrange her murder in my book. And I know Marilyn Manson well and he is free to call himself anything he likes.

*- and in any case, she is under no obligation to explain herself to KTS freaks or anyone.

*-and even if they treated her well, why bother anyway? The Col with his superior knowledge was banned from KTS for example something like thirty times.

All this proves my point- shame on the Oogler and ANYONE who converses with such a loser toad.

49 comments:

Anonymous said...

steve doesn't have to respect debra any more then you have to respect steve. debra isn't a victim, she's not listed as a victim. she's listed as a victims next of kin. sharon was a victim. im sure she has had a tough life but she has thrust herself in among the fans and with that comes opinions. good and bad. not everyone is going to trip over themselves when she speaks just because she was sharons sister. for myself i think what she has done in regards to keeping the killers in prison is great. i don't like her or dislike her because i don't know her. but i have been in enough groups and discussions to know that some people like her and some don't. i doubt she's losing any sleep over it.

ColScott said...

I believe in the greater scheme of things everyone affected by a crime is usually called a victim. That is how Voytek's son can claim "victim compensation" from the court. So yes, by most definitions including legal, she is a victim. It is only as a victim that she is allowed to speak at parole hearings.

I don't respect Steve because he is not funny.

Steve DOES have to respect Debra if he is part of a group that "honors the victims".

I have seen people appear on the group slagging off, say, Karen Montecillo, a very distant victim and they are banned immediately. Why is OOGLER allowed to continue?

Anonymous said...

you'd have to ask heaven or denise about karen. but it is to my understanding that she left the group on her own. because of you.
i do not think she was ever banned. but if you like i can ask heaven for you.

ColScott said...

shelby
please read my post where it says that people who mock her are banned
I never said she was banned
and why blame me
you know I had NOTHING to do with her leaving

Anonymous said...

again im not positive of anything. you'd have to ask heaven or denise.

Anonymous said...

i have im'ed heaven and she told me to tell you to check your email.

ColScott said...

I did there is a letter from Denise asking me a question about Nelson.

Point?

Anonymous said...

just telling you what she said

ColScott said...

I guess no one cares about my point which is I feel bad for Debra.

Anonymous said...

see col i told you that some people do not care for debra. its not just steve or some members of kts. just because she happened to be the sister of sharon tate doesn't make her some royal queen that we must all bow down to. debra is not a victim of charles manson. no member of charlies family ever touched debra. i'm not saying that debras life hasnt been changed by them. of course it has. losing her sister at such a young age had to be very hard on her and her family. but she is not listed as a victim. only as a next of kin. everyone loved patti. why? because she never, not once did she ever dis sharons fans. she never paid any attention to them at all. debra is always making some rude nasty remark about the fans then begs us to write our letters to the parole board. it is as a victims next of kin that she is allowed to speak at parole hearings. go look at the hearing transcripts. they all say debra tate - victim's next of kin. also listed of victims next of kin are ANTHONY DIMARIA,MARGARET DIMARIA,MARIE FORD,JOHN DESANTIS,ANGELA CORINNE SMALDINO,LOUIS SMALDINO. debra has no ties to the labiancas but she goes to the parole hearings as a victims next of kin support. so does jays nephew.
to those of you wondering about her coke habit. talk to paige. she seems to be the expert on debra. i have also heard rumors that debra is suing lisa (patti's friend) over some of sharons personal belongings that patti had when she died. lisa is holding on to them for pattis kids. i guess pattis children aren't allowed to have anything that belonged to their aunt. only debra is allowed to own sharons things. i also heard that the house that col tate and doris owned, they left to patti and not debra. makes you wonder if maybe debras family had problems with her.

Anonymous said...

like the old saying, opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
no one is saying that debra shouldnt seek justice and no one is stopping her from doing so.

Anonymous said...

i dont hate debra. i just dont really care for her.

Anonymous said...

ive heard of her being involved with drugs. its not a very well kept secret.

Anonymous said...

i dont have a problem with debras looks her body or her drug addiction. its her snide remarks about sharons fans that bother me. who is she to call anyone "a little off" or that if you've seen the death pictures that you're "oogling" over them. i think the pictures serve as a reminder that horrible people exist in this world. if it wasn't for those pictures i wouldn't be writing the parole letters she begs for. hearing about things and actually seeing the results are two different things. debra should be thankful sharon has the fan base that she does. without us no one would be spending the insanely high prices shes asking for on very small pictures of sharon. it isn't about hating debra as a person for me anyway. its about not liking what some of the things she says. maybe she has a right to say them but i have a right not to like them. maybe she should follow patti's example. worry about keeping her sisters killers in prison and less about what the fans are doing.

ColScott said...

the hate is surprising me... oh well...

Heaven said...

Well here I am, posting on Col Scotts blog lol
Yes, I'm the elusive Heaven you've heard tell about LOL

First time for everything huh? lol

Ok, I'm here because there is so much hatred towards Debra that I felt I needed to chime in, for whatever it may be worth.

No one can really form an opinion about Debra as a person because none of us know her. People are different when in front of a camera then they are in private. I don't know Debra, but I can only assume that she does appreciate Sharon's fans. She probably made the comments that she did from all the psycho's she's had to deal with since her sister's death.

I admire Debra's strength and courage for going to each and every parole hearing, even the ones she doesn't have to go to (IE the LaBianca's). She could easily skip it and let they families handle it. But for moral support, she goes. That, in my opinion, is very commendable.

I am not a fan of Debra's and sometimes I don't like some of the things she does and says. For instance, she sells Sharon's pictures on her site. I know because I bought two of them. They were quite small and very overpriced, the shipping was high and took forever for them to arrive. But yet, Debra is trying to put a stop to anyone selling pictures of Sharon on Ebay. I'd hate to see that happen, there are a lot of really awesome Sharon pictures on Ebay that I'd love to have for my collection. Why is Debra threatened by anyone selling them there? They're not the same ones as she's selling. I bought them from Debra's site because I thought I was making a contribution to Sharon's star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. To be honest, if I had know the money was going up Debra's nose, I wouldn't have bought them from her site.

But, I don't know for a fact that she spent it on coke, so I just keep assuming it's going towards Sharon's star.
What I'd like to see Debra put a stop to is the sale of the obvious fake things that people are selling and claiming they belonged to Sharon. IE clothes, jewelry, cosmetics. Things we damn well know did not belong to Sharon.

I'll be honest, it bothers me that Debra is selling Sharon. If the money is really going towards the star, that's fine, she's raising money to do something good in Sharon's memory. If she's just lining her pockets, then it bothers me. I won't apologize for that because it IS how I feel. Maybe some people feel it's ok for her to be doing it, that's fine too cause that would be your opinion. I didn't particularly like being referred too as "a little off" either, or that I'm an "oogler".. But I think she was more referring to the weirdo's she encounters rather than the true Sharon fans.

Now, speaking from someone who once had a serious coke addiction, I can tell you that it makes you skinny, not overweight. It works as hunger suppressant, in other words, you don't want to eat, you're not hungry. It also makes you very active, it speeds up your system so you have trouble sitting still. So if Debra had a coke problem, she'd be thin as a rail.

I have never heard of her having a drug problem, but hey, it wouldn't be on the news anyway. If it is true, I hope she's getting the help she needs because quitting is very difficult. I know cause I did it.

Debra has suffered the loss of her entire family. For that, my heart does go out to her. None of us are perfect, the only difference is, we don't live under the media glare. We don't have people watching our every move, waiting for us to screw up so someone can alert the National Enquirer.

Debra is Debra, she isn't Doris and she isn't Patti. It isn't fair for anyone to expect her to be.
I don't agree with everything she does, and sometimes I downright dislike some of the things she does. But like Denise said, she's not out to win any popularity contests.

Ok, I babbled long enough.
I hope at least some of what I said made sense lol

=)

ColScott said...

Welcome Heaven
It did all make sense and I agree with 98% of it.
Of course she is allowed to profit by something she owns (Sharon's image) but she should not block shit she doesn't have a right to. If she doesn't own the ebay photos she should shut the hell up.
Thanks for your great post.

I just had no idea what I was starting. Wow.

Heaven said...

You're right, she does own Sharon's pictures and does have the legal right. I was more thinking of the moral right.

If Sharon was my sister, I'd never try to cash in on her, unless it was for something to be done in her memory. But that's me and I can't expect Debra to do things my way. She does own the images and can do what she likes with them...

But ooo, it's hard not to let it bug me LOL

ColScott said...

It is not just my blog, every one is free to do what they want to do, with no Jimmy Nelson posts anywhere!

Heaven said...

LOL

I have been drawn into the Col's circle of love lol

=)

Heaven said...

I doubt she'll be able to stop the pictures because she doesn't own most of them.

But I do hope she can put a stop to people like this..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sharon-Tate-Personal-1960s-Black-Sleeveless-Dress_W0QQitemZ7580289759QQcategoryZ197QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These fake items are scams and I wish they could be removed from Ebay.

Heaven said...

That link didn't post very well did it? lol

Here is the auction number

7580289759

Heaven said...

Me too. It's not only a rip off it's a disgrace to Sharon. I can't STAND sellers who cash in on the deaths of others.

Heaven said...

Believe it or not, I actually agree with most of what you said, except for one point.

When I quit using coke, I didn't gain any weight. But maybe I just got lucky in that sense. I can only go by myself here cause all the other cokeheads I knew back then are still cokeheads today.

I can't respect Debra selling Sharon for her own personal profit, I simply can't. And yes I know, it's none of my business what she does.. So before anyone jumps on me, it's not as though I can stop Debra from selling Sharon.

I do agree with you 100% about if Debra wants to live in front of the camera she better be ready for the consequences. I believe that holds true for any celebrity. Not that Debra is really a celebrity.

If it wasn't for the fact that she's Sharon Tates' sister, no one would notice her at all, and I think she knows it. Sharon is her only claim to fame. I'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but if you think about it, am I wrong?

=)

Dok said...

Wow is right COl. Let Debra's person be. All of the stuff brought into question here is self serving and shallow.

However I do agree with Heaven about the selling off of Sharon's belongings and photos. There should not be a profit made.

Heaven said...

Bugliosi made money yes, but Sharon wasn't his sister. There is something to be said for family honor and loyalty. I can't stop her, but I don't have to like it.

Robert Ballard discovered the Titanic. By discovering her, he then owned her. He gave no one consent to go remove items from that ship and had every right to be pissed off, I would be too.
Anyone stealing items off that ship to sell for personal gain is, in my opinion, a graverobber.

Heaven said...

I should also add that at the time Ballard discovered the Titanic, there were still living survivors. How do you think they felt knowing their fathers toothbrush or money clip or pocketwatch was being sold for profit?

When Ballard went back to the Titanic site and saw what people had done, he was very upset. This directly resulted in the creation and signing of an international treaty to protect the Titanic wreck site.

In 1989, Ballard took 200,000 students by telepresence to the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea, where they saw underwater volcanoes, artifacts, and the remains of ancient trading vessels.
Since these vessels were ancient, I'm preet sure there are no living suvivors. Whatever he took, if anything, was not for personal gain.

Robert Ballard has seem more of the ocean floor than anyone else alive.

There is your history lesson for today lol

There is a difference between a bereaved sister who weeps and cries at the parole hearing for her dead sister, then lines her pockets off the money she makes cashing in on that very death and a man who has discovered more about our oceans and what rests on the floor of them than anyone else in history.

Heaven said...

preet = pretty

Sorry, I keep forgetting to proofread before I post lol

Heaven said...

Salome,

Please know that I am not talking about Debra's looks, her weight or any drug problem she may have. I'm simply talking about how I feel about her selling Sharon.

Heaven said...

Gary hon,

I hate to disagree with you but Ballard did own the Titanic. It's called Discovery Rights. It was his.. You can look it up online.

Under the law, granting ownership to the "finders" of a wreck is based on the premise that the ship has been abandoned by it's owners.

I realize that Ballard has come under fire about grave robbing in regards to his finds. I didn't know that parts of the Andrea Doria were on Ebay. But hers was not the disaster with the massive loss of life that the White Star Line suffered when the Titanic sunk. 1,662 passengers and crew were saved from the Andrea Doria, 52 lives were lost due to the collision, not the freezing water as was with the Titanic.

The Titanic was totally different, ignorance caused that wreckage. Stupid people in charge of running her when they obviously weren't qualified to be making the decisions they did. Innocent babies died in that freezing water. Third Class passengers were locked below like animals so First Class people could be saved. Entire families were wiped out. Wives lost husbands, families lost the sole breadwinner, children lost fathers. It was the worst maritime disaster of the century. 1500 lives were lost.. That's why the Titanic is different. Not because of some high budget Hollywood movie.

Elvis is a completely different thing and I was waiting for someone to bring him up lol

Elvis was a legend, an icon, an empire. He has been a money maker since the day his career began. When Elvis died, his estate was a complete mess. Graceland cost more than $50,000 a year just to maintain, not to mention the taxes. Priscilla had to do something because as it was going, Lisa Marie was about to inherit nothing but debt.

Much to the horror of those who knew Elvis, Priscilla allowed visitors to Graceland in 1981. By doing so, she not only gave something incredible to the fans, she was building an empire for the only child of Elvis Presley to inherit. You cannot compare Elvis Presley to Sharon Tate.

Sharon's career was yet to really take off. Elvis is a name everyone knows and most associate with Las Vegas. He was a money making machine, before and after his death.

I don't agree in the least that Lisa Marie just started selling off her rights to Elvis. She sold everything except Graceland. Which I think was really stupid on her part. No one said what she did was right.

Debra has a problem with others selling pictures, on Ebay for instance. If she's so concerned about keeping Sharon's memory alive, why does she want to stop those sales?

Heaven said...

Gary, I'm confused. On one hand you have nothing but praise for Debra, but because she may play a part in keeping someone in prison that you feel should be released, you express a little distain for the woman...

How come?

=)

Heaven said...

Salome,

It's all good.... No need to apologize.

=)

Heaven said...

Gary,

You know I love ya dearly, so I don't want you to misunderstand my posts. I would never try to argue with you.

You are absolutely correct, Ballard did not preserve his claim, but he did help pass a law that will keep the scavengers away from Titanic. As far as the Mediterranean ships, they have been there hundreds of years and have been "discovered" many times. Ballard was by no means to first to arrive.

In my worthless opinion, artifacts that are on display are fine, I have no problem with that. It allows people to not only see a piece of our history, but to learn from it as well.

One of the last remaining Titanic survivors, Ruth Becker (she died in 1990) actually went to see one of the displays and saw her fathers watch.

In regards to Elvis, pockets were already lined even before he did. His own manager was talking 50% of Elvis' money from Vegas shows. Elvis knew it and did nothing to stop it.

Elvis left his entire estate to his daughter, every penny. It sat there waiting for her until she turned 25. She raised it by 5 years. So she never started getting anything until she was 30 years old. Elvis died when she was 9. That's a long time to wait to become one of the richest women in the United States.

I don't have a problem with Priscilla building something for her daughter to inherit. Priscilla inherited nothing, zilch, zero. It all went to Lisa Marie. Priscilla did what she had to do..

What I do have a problem is, Lisa sold off everything Elvis, except Graceland. But, as with Debra, it's none of my business. But I don't have to like it.

No one is stopping Debra from doing anything. It is well within her right, but I still think it's a shitty thing to do. Like I said before, she weeps for her dead sister and does everything she can to keep the killers locked up, but she's cashing in on the very death she weeps for. To me, that's just twisted.

Heaven said...

Sheesh, I gutta start proofreading lol

Meant to say...

In regards to Elvis, pockets were already lined even before he died

Heaven said...

I agree, her weight and appearance have nothing to do with it, that has nothing to do with why I don't really care for her.

I realize that other killers have been released, but these other killers were not associated with Manson. Leslie is and that association will follow her for the rest of her life.

That is a choice Leslie made years ago when she decided to follow the word of Charles Manson. Society didn't force Leslie to kill. Just for the sake of argument, that's say Rosemary was dead when Leslie stabbed her, Leslie still put the pillowcase over her head, wrapped the lamp cord around her neck, held her down while Patricia stabbed her, ran and got Tex when Rosemary became too much for these delicate flower children to handle, and then stabbed her when Tex told her to..

She whipped the fingerprints off everything, wrote things in blood, took Rosemary's clothes, changed into them and then later burned them.

All this to prove her loyalty to Manson. That loyalty is what's keeping her in prison.

Ahh the choices we make.

Heaven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Heaven said...

Gary, those two last posts were not made by Denise and I, someone has created ID's to look like us...

Just thought I'd let ya know

Heaven said...

You can tell it's me when you click on my name, mine says Heaven's Blog..

Maybe Denise and I should be flattered cause they say that imitation is the kindest form of flattery.

I have no problem standing behind my words and I don't need to create fake ID's to do so. It's called integrity.

=)

Heaven said...

Ahh yes, Liz and Erin, the Debra and Paige haters..

Well since neither of them have a man in their lives, that would explain the lesbian fascination they have.

Heaven said...

Why don't you dare to post with your own ID? Who you hiding from?

Heaven said...

Yeah, I have an alter ego. Actually it's more of a wanna be lol

=)

Heaven said...

I have two teenagers so I'm used to dealing with immaturity lol

=)

Heaven said...

And yet another imposter. They just keep coming. I never realized Denise and I were so popular..

The real Denise doesn't have a blog called Denise_Greek_Blog.

You all need to try harder

Heaven said...

Yes, I'm the real Heaven. If in doubt just click on my name, my blog is called Heavens Blog, the imposters blog is called Heaven_kts...

Siebenzumsterben, that was such a sweet thing to say. Thank you

=)

Heaven said...

That's such a nice thing to say...

=)

Heaven said...

Awwww, I may have to make you my Valentine lol

Heaven said...

Now I like you lol

You gutta come on over to KTS..

But your name is too big and I can't spell it all out without having to look back.. I'm blonde so you know how it goes lol

Heaven said...

Awww, wanna be's are so 3rd grade.

Heaven said...

You're right, I wouldn't say something like that..

These people are so simple minded.